(BASIC): The Perfect Pizza Town wins

[Darthe]

Ok - I freely admit I didn't catch the vote by Darthe. I saw the part I bolded and got to sticking a gif in because   I thought it was funny. I didn't even think Des was scum at the time as I said. Or I think I said. Either way, it was a joke courtesy of the earlier threads as I said, much like in the recent game we played where I self voted for innactivity based on the game before that.

 

Anyone sensing a pattern here?

 

Moving on.

 

The triggers thing - I initially checked trying to find out if Basel would activate the game with only one person left yet to check in, thinking that could be a good person to keep an eye on. As it stands, the game was started with TWO, Krak and Mish. My point was not that they were mafia, but quite the opposite - with triggers activated and they yet to contribute, I don't think the mod would assign a role based on that demographic seeing as they are not unique. And if all roles are based on things posted as is likely, this can rule out Mish and Krak as being mafia or any sort of town role.

 

I also think some people who would be interesting to look at are certain post count numbers and such, but haven't had a look because I think Despo is mafia and went with that.

 

As to despo's post as a whole - fair enough I guess. let me check for questions.

 

Ok it's big and my eyes are glazing. In a nutshell Tress was the nice target to move a vote to because of Darthe's suspicion, Darthe being true to town meta according to some who have posted. Then when I catch heat, you vote me. All I am saying is that these are good times to put a vote on these two people.

 

I also think the self sacrifice thing is just gross. And the whole "They guilt tripped me into playing" is also a bit erm what for me.

 

I think you are mafia. I think I made a pretty good case and you are wall of texting me out, which will probably work because hey who am I compared to despo in the chain of things at DM mafia, but my case is built on lots of little things all coming together to give me an opinion of you, which I stated.

 

Maybe not well, but stated all the same. And another very clever move I've done is completely miss your comments regarding those I said. That doesn't help. 

 

 

 

I think I'm three to lynch.  I am Anchovies. I also put that out there knowing it won't help my case one lick   Vanilla town. That sounds much more palatable.

 

Again, making a mistake does not make someone mafia.  Des latched onto a single thing that Berf stated incorrectly and ran with it.  Mafia would try to back out of this, to argue around it, to push somewhere else or counter.  Berf says "hey, I messed this up, my B".  He then begins to give analysis of the game, attempting to put out reads before he dies.  Mafia kick and scream.  Town are resigned.  The play doesn't indicate mafia or add up to anything other than vanilla town.

 

The contradiction with Krak and Kaylee:

 

With Krak, you think it's the mafia sideline prodding. IE - The mafia leaving a blatant scum tell

With Kaylee's fence sitting, it's so blatantly mafia that it can't be mafia - Town leaving blatant scum tell

 

When you think about Krak, you don't seem to be considering that if he was mafia, he would be wary about making such an antagonistic post.

With Kaylee, if she was mafia, she would be thinking about her posts and wouldn't make such an antagonistic post and is therefore town. 

 

Yes?

 

 

And Mish just calling me scummy and saying "what a post" doth not a mafia make me. Reasons?

 

You can again see this here.  The guy is tossing out town tells left and right and you all have him at L-1 because you're sheep.

 

And Despo this isn' personal. This is me joking about based on outside events, and then it just so happened that I found you to be the most scummy.

 

This isn't a 'hard on' for targeting you at all. I'd prefer you town so you'd go bother someone else. I'd prefer you off my damn case because I don't like responding to giant-ass walls of text. 

 

And with the threads I put in my 2c and left. I can't really contribute much more. My playstyle is mine, I joke around, I don't take things too serious if I don't have to. That will include being a sarcastic and dry jerk at times. But stonewalling someone is again just a playstyle. *shrug* Lighten up. All I got to say. And if you say you normally are? Then 

 

Everyone voting Berf should read this four times over.  Look at the simple honesty of it.  Look at the phrasing, the total lack of any manipulation and simplicity of it.  

 

I really don't see, how after clearly explaining why I mentioned the triggers, my looking into it and mentioning is role fishing or mafia. I'm trying to figure out who might be mafia, and presented my findings.

 

As for the rest, I can't argue that, is your opinion. So we'll see how you look when I flip town.

 

Point and case.

 

I'm kinda forced to talk about what I did and didn't say here Mish...

 

Yupp.  Confirmation bias is a bitch ain't it?

 

I was looking for mafia, and presented my findings? 

 

I'm asking people to look for those who they think might have roles. It's not about who is VT, it's about who might not be. I didn't start banging on about it until I was pressed. If you didn't want attention drawn to it, why push me on it?

 

That anyone ever has to defend this is incredible.

 

And by roles, I mean mafia roles. It just so happens that those same triggers also may contain town power roles. That doesn't mean I'm going to ignore a potential avenue for finding mafia, and encourage others to do the same.

 

This happens to be accurate.  The rest quoted will basically reinforce the points made so far.  It isn't hard to see at all.  Des got heat off of him, Berf got convenience trolled, town is too absent and empathetic to actually scumhunt.

 

So let's just not look at anything then because of incidental information?

 

I'm trying to check who may have set off triggers, because that is how mafia was assigned this game, like every role yes, but I'm focusing on mafia. I'm looking for people who may have set off those triggers, and what tells they may give, much like everyone else in this game more than likely. It is only natural to maybe check on who has posted when in regards to the triggers. It's an avenue of investigation. I'm copping heat because I happen to be the one who brings it up, when it was always going to come up.

 

If two vanilla towns are confirmed, then that is two nights of NK's not hitting town roles. Forget that?

 

 

Hullo and good morning. Thoughts incoming.

 

Unvote

 

 

 

Vote Mish

 

"No mafia would ever do anything that comes with a risk of being called out for it"

 

You claim my case on Desp is reaching, and the only reason I went through with it is because I had 'put myself' in a situation that I couldn't get out of. I could have Unvoted at any time, you must realise. Prior to posting the case. Simple. Nobody was expecting me to say anything, I could have stayed shut up and safe. I made that case because I believed it.

 

So if I was mafia, and I knew my case was a reach, why would I post it?

 

 

I also find it interesting how you are very upset about revealing potential VT's, and are completely yet to look at the mafia hunting aspect of it. Not a single word. It's all been about you soft claiming a VT and being outraged. If you didn't want to get into it at all, leave it be. You could have joined the train and nobody would really press you, seeing as you got away with a pretty soft vote on Tiinks earlier, due to his 'obvious' mafia play. 

 

 

You say it yourself - no mafia would ever get themselves called out - So why would I post the trigger information?

 

Very contradictory thoughts. Such as "I'll cut you some slack... Vote berf". 

 

And the whole thing - the triggers - is moot anyway, because you are mafia. Which you knew going into this back and forth, and your responses read like it when i went back and had a look.

 

*nod*

 

 

 

And I will be available for questioning for the next few hours. I didn't play a great game yesterday 

 

Desp I am still wary of. I will admit to some big gaps in that case though, and cop it correctly. I am however willing to move on as I obviously think Mish has revealed herself.

 

 

Teehee

 

 

And I wasn't aware of any emo, but if there's smoke, there's fire. I'll be wary. My hair would make a perfect emo swoop and by gods someone chop my head off if it does.

 

[Darthe]

Now someone kindly remove Berftown from L-1

[Darthe]

Btw, Mish is unfortunately town.

[Songstress]

That's lovely, Darthe.  Do you have an explanation in all that as to why Berftown would put a serious FOS on Mish when he clearly believed her to be vanilla town?

[Darthe]

If you are asking me to explain his actions I won't as I prefer not to give him reasons and let him answer for himself.  However, based on his mentality I would view it as a player under pressure seeing people who attack him as mafia.  Happens pretty regularly.

 

Your passive aggressive tone is noted.

[Darthe]

Also, why note him as Berftown?

 

And why ask a question that you know the answer to?  Almost every player has done this and seen it done by others countless times.

[Songstress]

Now someone kindly remove Berftown from L-1

 

 

If you are asking me to explain his actions I won't as I prefer not to give him reasons and let him answer for himself.  However, based on his mentality I would view it as a player under pressure seeing people who attack him as mafia.  Happens pretty regularly.

 

Your passive aggressive tone is noted.

 

 

Also, why note him as Berftown?

 

And why ask a question that you know the answer to?  Almost every player has done this and seen it done by others countless times.

 

 Calling him "Berftown" was in response to your referring to him as "Berftown".  I repeated it because I want you, who seems to have no problem explaining Berf's state of mind about everything else, to explain why as town, when he had a very clear theory that Mish and Krak were both vanilla town, he would make a point of FOS'ing someone that he had apparently a pretty strong reason to think was town.

 

If I'm coming across as passive aggressive, it's probably because I had just spent a lot of time re-reading the thread and taking notes, and felt my reason for voting Berf was quite valid.  And you have rather passive-aggressively thrown offhand insults in response, saying it is simple to see to "anyone using logic" that Berf has to be town, and that those who are voting him are sheep.

[Darthe]

You know, you asked me to case him thus far and explain my reads.  I did so.  His play doesn't involve any scum tells and involves several derp town tells and town tells.  After reading through the thread, it surprises me that you don't find the sheer speed and nature of his lynch to be counter what one usually expects a mafia lynch to look like.  

 

If you consider that then it makes the rest quite simple.  

 

It could also be noted that Berf implies the situation you are talking about and that his logic on the matter is generally faulty.  

[hazelkrs1]

Catching up now, thoughts in a moment

[peacesells]

UNVOTE

[hazelkrs1]

Alright, so my favorite format: general thoughts first, followed by specific ones in a good ol WoT.

 

Darthe, I highly disagree with your case for Berf being town. It all essentially boils down to "There's no way he'd be that bad as mafia!", which is first of all wifom, and second of all, no offense meant to Berf here, but I can't say his play has impressed me so much in the past that I think he wouldn't stumble a bit as mafia. And you're completely mistaken in saying that he hasn't dropped any scumtells btw.

 

1. He admitted to lurking

2. He admitted to antagonizing me (not a town move there, even if it was supposedly meant as a joke)

3. Posted a trumped up case

4. Posted obvious rolefishing comment

5. Backpedaled when called out on trumped up case

6. Used AtE when he pulled the martyr act, same thing he accused me of

7. Flip flopped on his reads (first suspicious of Mish, then points out that because of triggers she's prob VT, then all of a sudden convinced she's scum again).

 

That's a pretty hefty list of scumtells man. For you to act like he hasn't dropped any.... well I just don't know what to say to that. Moreover Berf makes a great info lynch today as well, since you've hardcore defended him. And don't wifom me on that, this is a smaller game so mafia are more likely to defend each other, and with the play the scum team in Nolder's game I think a lot more experienced players are going to try the "hiding in plain sight" routine. You also seem like you're fearmongering about how fast his train built, when I don't think it built that fast at all. He did post a pretty awful post, which then got a couple more people to vote him, but the train on him has built over days. Once again, this being a small game, it takes less votes to lynch so it only seems like it built fast if you make it seem like that. I'm thinking now that you and Berf are on a team together and decided to big game hunt out the gate, and you're now trying to cover for your partner's shoddy mafia play and make it seem like derptown.

 

As for the other big thing discussed recently, Krak and Mish and not checking in before the triggers, I'm not liking at all the theory that they're somehow confirmed VT. This basically comes close to implying that Basel is a bastard mod, that he would design a setup that was that easy to figure out who some of the VT's are. For all we know, some of the triggers could have been the last people to check in, which could be possible since Basel mentioned the triggers at all. Or perhaps some of them had to do with placement on the player list or something. Either way it just feels like dirty pool to me to use something that has nothing to do with gameplay to try and use as "confirmation" of a player's alignment. For now I'm going to treat Krak and Mish like they should be - player's whose alignments are NOT confirmed.

[hazelkrs1]

I also think the self sacrifice thing is just gross. 

 

 

Whelp, looks like I'm done for.

 

 

The contradiction with Krak and Kaylee:

 

With Krak, you think it's the mafia sideline prodding. IE - The mafia leaving a blatant scum tell

With Kaylee's fence sitting, it's so blatantly mafia that it can't be mafia - Town leaving blatant scum tell

 

When you think about Krak, you don't seem to be considering that if he was mafia, he would be wary about making such an antagonistic post.

With Kaylee, if she was mafia, she would be thinking about her posts and wouldn't make such an antagonistic post and is therefore town. 

 

Yes?

 

 

And Mish just calling me scummy and saying "what a post" doth not a mafia make me. Reasons?

 

The difference to me is that it is much easier to get called out for fence-sitting than what I called out Krak for. The point I was making on Krak wasn't a generally accepted scumtell, and it was based off of like three words. I don't think most mafia would be oh so careful as to not post something like that.

 

And Despo this isn' personal. This is me joking about based on outside events, and then it just so happened that I found you to be the most scummy.

 

This isn't a 'hard on' for targeting you at all. I'd prefer you town so you'd go bother someone else. I'd prefer you off my damn case because I don't like responding to giant-ass walls of text. 

 

And with the threads I put in my 2c and left. I can't really contribute much more. My playstyle is mine, I joke around, I don't take things too serious if I don't have to. That will include being a sarcastic and dry jerk at times. But stonewalling someone is again just a playstyle. *shrug* Lighten up. All I got to say. And if you say you normally are? Then

 

This post reads to me like guilty conscience Berf trying to apologize for building a case on me in the first place. Too bad the Tour de France isn't done backwards, Berf would be the Lance Armstrong of Backpedaling!

 

Your post felt forced and your arguments felt made-up to me. It felt like you had to go trough it because you had put yourself in a situation with Des and couldn't get out of it. Mostly because the way you try to represent things doesn't add up with my view of how things happened and views od Des' actions doesn't match up at all; I felt like you were trying way too hard to push and angle on himt hat would make us suspect him. Add that to the pit at the end with the triggers and me and Krak, wich I still don't see the point of bringing up (unless you are rolefishing, wich is not cool) then it makes for a post that I def feels warrants a vote.

 

This.

 

i haven't played with berf... is he normally this emo and reactive, or was that all mockery until mish started pressuring him?  

 

i'm thinking back on that game i played with des where he did nearly the same thing.  i was convinced he was mafia, he was getting lynched and getting smacked around pretty good, and he stopped defending himself and just lay down and died, very emo, very sad.  and i knew when he did that he was town, he has a particular emo when he's really emo that i don't think he can fake.  it was a while ago, maybe he's learned to since then. 

 

either way, i haven't felt that genuine emo from des here.  confident and logical.  not the des i know.

 

kinda feeling it from berf, tho.  who i don't know much at all.

 

Tbh, I think most people give me far too much credit when it comes to mafia. Frankly, I'm just not really good at faking emo, so I've never really tried much as scum. I've started typing up a fake meltdown post before, only to reread it and see it was obviously scummy and delete it. It's just how I am, I'm an emotional player. /shrug

 

What you see as "confident and logical" is I think me trying to rein in my emotions more, because of my recent outburst.

 

Anyways, if you think I'm being fake emo, why no vote then? I know you tend to doubt yourself a lot when playing mafia, which is part of the reason it took so long for people to convince you to start trying it, but you should still know that casting fos's like this without attaching a vote to them is lazy and scummy.

 

 

And you just conviently forgot that the point of having vanillas is to hide the town PRs? That you just made the mafia's job of finding PRs possibly quite a bit easier?

 

Think about this for a sec. If this was what he as doing, then why the F wouldn't he just post it in the mafia QT? 

 

 

Something I think you might not be considering is that he just did it as derpscum, or thought he could gain town cred by "confirming" two players (one of whom he is now saying is scum  )

 

 

Peace...what's up with the votes without explanations?

You have no other comments in what is going on?

 

 

Hehe, sorry but I do find this a bit ironic coming from you Kaylee

 

You claim my case on Desp is reaching, and the only reason I went through with it is because I had 'put myself' in a situation that I couldn't get out of. I could have Unvoted at any time, you must realise. Prior to posting the case. Simple. Nobody was expecting me to say anything, I could have stayed shut up and safe. I made that case because I believed it.

 

So if I was mafia, and I knew my case was a reach, why would I post it?

 

 

First of all, "As mafia I would do this" type statements are awful. Second, as a response to what you're saying here, you might have thought it would look more scummy to back down immediately without trying to case me first (which it would have). You couldn't have simply unvoted either without taking heat, don't know why you think that. At the time you had three votes on you. Simply unvoting would have been a disaster for you. I think you tried making the best case you could, knowing it would be a reach, and hoped others would follow on

 

Pushing that hard on a townie you expect to die doesn't seem a good mafia move, thus I am going to trust Mish's lapse in logic to simply be that.

 

Berf doesn't look like mafia to me.  I am highly suspect of how quickly his train built and why people are both trying to kill and listening to the cases on despo.

 

Also, Tress has stated that she finds Des scummy when he is town and too clean when he is scum.  I knew this.  My pushes on her were to see her reactions.  Thus, if he is mafia then she is almost certainly town imo (though it doesn't help any if he is town).

 

My cloud pushes were obviously based on nothing, thus unvote vote Des for being mafia.

 

Underlined: This actually makes me feel like Darthe's vote and jabs at WBK (the whole Cloud thing) might have all been distancing

 

 

H'okay, so.  Just finished going back through and taking notes.  Thankfully, this time I didn't have to start at 78 pages in

 

General thoughts:

 

Panchi needs to come talk to us or request a replacement.

 

Peace is Wombatting it out of the park™ this game.

 

Cindy is doing some extraordinary fence sitting. I haven't seen an opinion yet that hasn't been qualified with an "or maybe".  Except that there are some apparently large logic flaws in the suggestion that those who did not check in before the triggers were hit are VT - large logic flaws that she apparently thinks are so obvious that they don't need to be explained.  Oh, and Berf's "emo" reads as "genuine town emo" to her, while Despo's does not.  I'm getting some significant pings from this one.

 

Kaylee is also doing a pretty good job at refusing to take a position...

 

Peace...what's up with the votes without explanations?

You have no other comments in what is going on?

 

So far as I can see, Kaylee has been fence sitting (but she admitted it! so she's not scum!) on Despo and Darthe (post 160)... Then after saying here she doesn't know what to think of either of them she contradicts that by saying she's finding Despo suspicious for the same reason as Berf (bandwagoning or encouraging bandwagoning)... Oh and she's leaning town on Cindy!  

 

No vote yet on anyone, mind you, but after the above prod at Kronos, suddenly she has thoughts - vague as they may be...

 

 

Des: I kind of see your point.

 

Tink makes a good point.

 

Sister dear, if you're not going to quote the posts, can you at least summarize the content of the points that you are agreeing with? Despo has made several points.  With a lot of words.

 

I'm assuming that the point of Tink's you find agreeable is his question why Berf wouldn't have just put it in the mafia QT if he was trying to narrow down town PR's as mafia - is that the one?

 

So Kaylee, do tell.  What do you think now about Despo?  What point of his do you agree with?  

 

Do you think Berf is mafia?  How about Mish?  Was Berf's initial suggestion that those who did not check in N0 ended up vanilla town reasonable, or bogus? 

 

And what about me?  Do you think I was buddying Despo with my comment about his meta?  What did you think about Darthe, Despo and Berf all suggesting that I am mafia?  

 

Next, on to the biggest ping of my re-read... 

 

 

This post makes me feel a lot more comfortable about you Tress. Nice points, like em.

 

Wait a tic, Panchi is in this game?!

 

Hole friggin smokes she is. Dude that is such BS. I'm sorry, but she either needs to stop signing up for games, or get policy lynched every game till she starts actually PLAYING THEM. So freaking retarded. One post this game. ONE. I mean there's laying low... but jesus.

 

Whew I need to cool down. Okay.

 

Re: Kaylee - I partly see what you're saying, but honestly I think Kaylee is pretty easy to spot as scum. Her town and scum meta is pretty drastically different. As scum she lurks and bandwagons a lot and apologizes for inactivity, as town she starts off pretty impartial about everything but slowly builds up steam. She hasn't been that vocal this game, but she never usually is as town in the early going, and has still at least posted more. I think she tries to lay low as either town or scum because she's a fairly good endgame player, that's where she shines normally. At first I didn't like that survivalist mentality, but as I've seen her endgame plays more and more it seems more reasonable to me.

 

As for Cindy, I'm kinda starting to agree with you there...

 

This right here:

 

The Cheerleading lynches thread is exactly why I put that train.gif and vote up Desp. You need to lighten up. Anyway - copy paste of my notes so far. Desp is doing something scum with each step he takes. 

 

My intention was to post the vote/train out and see what happens. I've been active on DM but avoiding this thread mostly to let it play it out. I was expecting Desp to flip out. I was expecting him town and to rail. Instead he is playing very cold and calculated, but attempting to soften with smileys and jokes and such. I wanted to shake the tree, the tree being desp, and have a look at what happens. Darthe came in, so did Peace. Both are smartasses like myself, and prolly bandwagoned to twist the knife a little after the emo threads going up lately and the collective responses to them.

 

Anyway rambling. Case notes:

 

First inclination of Desp being scum was the vote on Tress. Opportunistic, target comes in and places a vote, but mostly agreeing with everyone else's thoughts, which is fair enough. But I read it as voting a team mate who has jumped in to start running interference, so he doesn't want to vote too hard, obviously.

 

Says this:

 

 

 

"I do try acting a little scummy early in games as town to try and avoid NK's, but her mentioning that midgame could easily be an attempt to buddy to me or to gain town cred on my flip"

 

I hope I don't need to tell you what is wrong with this. "Please don't vote me if I appear mafia."

 

 

 

"Berf: leaning slightly scum. His obvious bandwagon vote accompanied with the blatant cheerleading stuff seems a lot like an attempt to provoke me. Ever since the end of the Merlin mafia game he has had a hard on for trying to show up and contradict me."

 

For a start, I didn't bandwagon. I started the damn train. And it's hard not to be excited when you make such a perfect ass out of yourself every time And again, welcome to the joke. It's not about contradicting you, it's about you accepting all playstyles.

 

 

 

"Krak: leaning slightly scum. His "Oh you two..." comment seemed like it could a been scum enjoying hanging back and watching two townies bicker at each other."

 

Reaching. Why would mafia make such an easily twisted statement like that? Krak being Krak. Introducing a random target by the way. Krak hasn't been on the radar at all.

 

 

 

"Kaylee: leaning town. Don't think she would have posted such an obvious fence-sitting post as scum."

 

 

Also at the top of the post Desp calls Darthe town. Darthe I can understand, but town reads this early are always alarm bells. For the people with them, I should clarify. 

 

For a start, this statement shows he is thinking about what mafia would and wouldn't do, yet calls Krak scum as above. Contradictory. Unthoughtful. 

 

Posts of a man at l-4 with a lot of time yet to go, and only one other viable target who may or may not be on mafia team (Tress). 

 

More posts after Mish begs him to step from the ledge.

"I don't wanna die but there are worse targets so I am totally OK with it you guyz"

 

IE - "I'm totes town come rescue me" A little violin might as well be playing.

 

Then - Contradictory post about asking peeps to vote Tress. IE I don't want to start a train, but totally start a train.

 

Called out by Cindy, whom Desp has said nothing about. I also didn't notice any posts about Darthe, Kronos, or peace, and only kronos is not voting him at this point out of those three. Obviously doesn't want to draw in more players to his situation by provoking them into at least looking at him by mentioning them.

 

I then comment saying my vote isn't moving.

 

Kronos comes in, votes me for JOINING the despo train. (Thought I started the despo train?)

 

Mish randoms and votes Tiinker. Hallie backs it up.

 

Both soft.

 

Desp then lists a few targets he has found to be buddying to him, and yet can see the chance of a train on me, switches to me. At this stage I have two game posts. One a joke train GIF, and the other confirming my suspicions of him.

 

 

 

 

So yeah. My vote is comfy.

 

Desp scum, Tress scum, eyes on Mish and Hall. 

 

 

By the way, the only two people who DIDN'T post before the Triggers were all met were Krak and Mish. Kronos even left Mish off his initial read-list too. 

 

That is all.

 

 

I have to point out that this was before his complete 180 deciding that Mish had to be mafia because of her responses to the trigger thing.

 

At this point, he was working off the theory that because Mish and Krak did not check in during N0 before the triggers were met, that they were not assigned a mafia or town power role, and had to be vanilla town.  I was actually contemplating the same possibility for scumhunting, but did not think it was prudent to throw it out in the open.  

 

But yet immediately before he put that out in the thread for everyone to think about, he made a point of FOS'ing Mish and Hallia for their votes on Tink.

 

You're keeping your eyes on someone that you in the very next sentence point out that you believe to be vanilla town?

 

Ping.  Major ping.  Logic fail, Berf.

 

Mish made a very good point about the case on Despo feeling forced, and suddenly Berf backs off of his Despo case, says "my bad, I was off my game yesterday" and is 100% convinced his theory about the triggers is wrong because now Mish MUST be mafia?

 

I don't buy it, big boy.

 

Vote Berf

 

Nice catch. I missed that.

[berf]

I freely admit that I changed my mind on the triggers - Mish's reaction makes me thinks she is mafia, so you'll notice I actually said that the whole theory is moot.

 

And it's obviously not that big a deal to anyone bar Mish and Desp it seems. 

 

Heres the timeline for you following at home, because these quotes and tear-apart thingo's do a good job of muddying the water despite trying to clear the air.

 

- Jump in, train gif on Desp. Harhar.

- Check in later to see what has shaken out - turns out it actually rattled Desp into a reaction that I found scummy, so posted my case. This is a total coincidence by the way - I didn't have Desp on the radar at all, really.

- Case get's torn to peices on A) the info I missed, which is fair enough. And then B) "revealing" VT's and reaching. 

 

The thing with reaching is, my case is built on the sum of the parts, not the individual components. Any one thing is reaching. Of course, having only one reason to vote someone is reaching. But when multiple 'one things' start to come out of the woodwork they form a pattern... That is why I voted as I voted, and stated what I stated. I saw a pattern.

 

- Mish won't let it go. I tried to explain as much as possible that this was mafia hunting, and she constantly drags up the fact that I'm 'revealing' VT's and throwing that in my face, despite not wanting to draw attention to it. And then there was something about an earlier comment being sarcastic, which is very convenient because I didn't pick up on that at all. Maybe others did.

- For the reasons earlier given I changed my vote to Mish, having acknowledged the info I managed to miss on my Desp case, and Mish being mafia based on her contradictory reasoning and refusal to see logic. Just attack attack attack.

 

 

So basically what I get is - I'm being voted for looking at the mechanics, missing some info on a case, and then changing my mind when presented with new evidence. And I'm at l-1.

 

No-one seems to have mentioned my Anchovy VT claim but I guess in a random role game it doesn't really warrant much of a look.

 

 

BTW Desp you said you aren't impressed with my play in previous games. If I was truly terrible, as mafia, don't you think I'd leave it up to one of my maybe more experienced potential teammates to make the case for me? Just a thought. 

[berf]

Available for questioning, by the way. I don't want to die, though there is a part of me that will enjoy the pressure it will place on Desp and Mish tomorrow. 

 

So I am here and taking all comers

[berf]

RE: Backing out of the train after I posted - A terrible case is harder to explain than an unvote. If I didn't believe the case, I would have unvoted, that simple. Anyone who is thinking it would be easier to just reach a case perhaps not making the wisest decision. Why, as mafia, would I feel ANY pressure to post a reaching case over an unvote and someone running interference?

 

I didn't reach - I did miss information, absolutely, but at no point did I think I was reaching.

[hazelkrs1]

Berf, can't comment on much right now, I gotta go in a sec. But it wouldn't make much sense to just have a teammate post the case for you, cause then that could tie the two of you together more, and moreover you could still look questionable if you didn't ever give much reasoning for keeping your vote on me. And your case was pretty bad, even besides the missing info. The "looking at diff small things altogether" was more like you trying to find a lot of stuff and spinning them together to make me look scummy, instead of taking different pieces of evidence on their own and showing why they would be questionable. That confirmation bias Darthe keeps going on about.

 

As for the triggers thing, it def looked like rolefishing while trying not to look like rolefishing to me, just done very poorly.

[berf]

It looks like poor rolefishing because it wasn't rolefishing.

 

Confirmation bias :P

[hazelkrs1]

Erm, you admitted yourself that it was rolefishing lol. You said you were looking for mafia roles, but that it might uncover town PR's as well. So yeah...

[berf]

Mafia searching does not equal rolefishing. Come on man. Terms.

 

The key here is intention. I was focused on finding mafia. I thought it would be a fruitful avenue and not ONCE did I ask for townies to come forward. And the reactions from the event have proved quite interesting indeed so I wouldn't take it back if I could, just so it's known.

 

Two vanilla townies even if NK'ed nights one and two, still buy time for the actual role-holders to do some work. I'm vanilla town, I know my role. I know the value of my role. I would gladly die if it intercepts an actual power role being taken away.

[hazelkrs1]

You weren't doing any regular kind of scumhunting with that tho, ie looking at gameplay and trying to find questionable behavior, that sort of thing. You were looking at triggers, which could possible lead to this who got mafia roles, but also could lead to town PR's as well. Once again, you admitted this already. Do I need to quote it for you?

 

And incidentally, you DIDN'T confirm anyone with that theory, and there's nothing that guarantees mafia will kill the people you think, unless you're scum of course. More than likely, mafia will shoot elsewhere since they'll have a better shot of taking down a PR, like what Mish was saying.

 

And once again, there's nothing that proves your theory is correct. You're essentially gaming the mod, trying to predict how the triggers would play out. It really is a fruitless endeavor imo.

[berf]

It wasn't fruitless when I started it. And furthermore I agree that now it is not really much to go off.

 

If mafia picks a random target from say, 10, versus 8, yes that's an increase but really, how much at this stage of the game?

 

If the theory is incorrect, which I now believe it to be so, then the worry about revealing roles is unwarranted. 

 

If I am wrong about Mish, and the theory is true, what is the worst that can happen? If it's true, then there are two less targets to lynch. The mafia can leave confirmed towns or kill them, either way there is equal benefit to town.

 

I really don't get the upset here. And furthermore if I am wrong about Mish and the theory is still incorrect, then we are back at square 1 regardless. 

 

 

More information will come from this from those who acitvated Triggers later on, undoubtedly. I don't see the harm in talking about it now.

[peacesells]

VOTE PANCHI

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

it's fence sitting to give thoughts I'm asked for, not jump on sleazy or easy trains, and not be ready to vote until I'm ready to, without letting myself get pressured into into it? ok.

 

it's poor form to point out something I see as obvious (they didn't post on night 0 = might be triggers --> one of those who didn't vote appears to go off raging at the theorizer for pointing out her VTness and getting her killed early derail which ended most other game discussion) without slapping up a wall of quotes pretty much designed to make ppl blind and dumb? ok.

 

it's scummy to fos ppl without voting them? no, it's not, I'm not sure how the rest of that is seen in the DM mafia kingdom, but foses get pointed without votes all the time. I don't play but I do read. and I don't play well, or happily, so deal with it, it's the best I can do.

 

I'll vote when I'm ready to vote and it'll be when I'm well caffeinated, here, focused, and sober.

 

small window of opportunity, I'll grant you, but it'll happen.

 

and I won't be browbeaten into it.

 

oh, you didn't get from my thoughts and fosing who I think may be scum?

 

you can read what I already wrote to figure out why, I'll be damned if I'm posting a page of quotes and BS spin to bury the game.

 

des, moderate scum read, explained it as well as I can (and yeah, @ tress, of everyone playing I know des best, and I'm going with gut there on his emo vs smug personae, and no, I don't have the same gut feeling on berf, but I don't get a scum read on him no matter who else does, I did get the feeling, from what he typed, and how he typed it, post after post after post or what seemed like unplanned emo meltdown and then defense, that he wasn't posting a planned well thought out calculated wall or walls of text, but was upset and flustered)

 

tress, you went out of your way to get me riled, trying not to confuse that with a scum tell cause I know it isn't, I think your defense of des was odd, and the only thing keeping me from calling that a scum read is apparently ppl who know you both seem to get where you're coming from. or cause I'm not sure of anything, and anyone who pretends to be is full of it and using false bravado, or has reason to know for sure. or that's how it's being spun to cover a teammate. I don't know. I'd call it a slight scum read.

 

berf, see above, slight town read.

 

darthe, you're sneaky, manipulative and suspiciously nice this game. that should worry me. the fact that I agree with a lot of what you've said ahold worry me more. y'all happier if instead of saying I'm not sure I say null tell? you like those words better? means the same thing but whatever, null tell.

 

mish, for that VT rage which was either flawed logic (no, I don't need to explain that further, I don't believe anyone reading the thread could fail to see it) or a hard push to get your VTness cemented in ppls minds, or a push to keep the heat where you wanted it, more than slight scum read

 

peace, got no time to use words, vote flipping with the winds, lazy distracted read

 

kronos, depressed not into it read

 

kaylee, more noncommittal than me but get the feeling she's using her words carefully, kerping her opinions to herself. doesn't give any specifics, doesnt attach her own sentiments to her responses, says thats what he said, or something like it, that's the point he was making. UN translator for Scotland type stuff. null read.

 

krak, no input, or I missed it. no read studying for some test read.

 

tiink, not much to say, what he says makes sense but seems willing to give the benefit of the doubt or is more subtle than me in fosing, null read

 

hally, very little today and every word sweet. null read.

 

panchi - srsly don't like the policy lynch once of, and numbers this low it would be real dumb to lynch someone based on one post and a standard disappearing act. no read at all except do you need a replacement or would running you up get you to post?

 

that's all I got, rip it apart, I'm getting my coffee.

 

good morning.

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

*hally very little to say

[Kaylee]

Not fully caught up but I will be busy a good part of the day.

 

Tress: yes the agreeing with Tink was about Berf posting the comment in the QT.

 

I didn't quote because it's not always easy on the phone. I'm not sure on a lot of people.

 

As for not saying anything about you, Tress, I wanted to see if you'd ask the typical "what about me?". You tend to want me to comment on your play when town. I think you stated how you honestly felt about Des. I felt it was genuine. I have the same feelings as meta go. However, knowing that only adds WIFOM because the player knows their meta. I'm leaning town on you atm.

 

I'm trying to get reads based on play. I said leaning town on Cindy. Is she fence sitting? Yes, as have I for the most part. I'm leaning town, atm, mostly due to meta.

 

I haven't read the last page yet so will do so today when I have the chance.