Were Rand and Moiraine really that close?

[False Dragon1991]

Gathering Storm really pushes the fact that we need Moiraine back. She is mentioned so many times either directly or indirectly by almost every main character at least once. I also think that Cads mishandling of Rand is meant to further this point and his general off the rails behaviour. Nynaeves POV is most clear on this when she not only says I wish moiraine were here but that it was because she had a way of yielding to him but still guiding him down the right path. Indeed, I do remember this being noted in the earlier books that she does influence him more when she says she will do what he says. But I am not sure if they were really that close or that she had that much of an impact. Rand is, from what I remember, still very cold towards Moiraine and mistrusting even though she, unlike Cads, spills her heart out about how her whole life has been about this and that she really does care about him. I am not sure Rand wholly accepted that at the time . After she "died" I certainly felt that Rand put her on a pillar a bit and I wasn't sure if this was just a guilt trip or if he did by that point take Moiraines advice and accepted that she was looking out for him. 

[Suttree]

This really isn't a topic we can discuss based on where you are in the story without major spoilers.

 

About Moiraine though, one method of control wasn't working so she tried another. Even then she went behind his back and tried to countermand an order like sending the Aiel across the DW. Once she opened up he ran roughshod all over her and you seem to have some misperceptions around exactly what was said in those earlier books.

[False Dragon1991]

This really isn't a topic we can discuss based on where you are in the story without major spoilers.

 

About Moiraine though, one method of control wasn't working so she tried another. Even then she went behind his back and tried to countermand an order like sending the Aiel across the DW. Once she opened up he ran roughshod all over her and you seem to have some misperceptions around exactly what was said in those earlier books.

 

Really? I thought they were still quite far apart before she died which is why I made the topic. So is Nynaeve mistaken and a flawed narrator in her assessment?

 

The topic only discusses Moraine during Fires of Heaven n the other early books. Nothing from Towers of Midnight or Memory of Light.

[Suttree]

This is one you need to just RAFO.

[False Dragon1991]

Well thats a shame. :(

 

Odd is more like it.

[Yamezt]

With regards to other characters, they may not have understood their relationship - Of the main characters, only Egwene & Aviendha were there.

 

Certainly Moiraine tried to manipulate him. I also think he feels a kinship towards her for going down to the docks to face Lanfear (and in her letter, it was obvious she somehow gained knowledge of the future and knowing the result she must achieve), just as he has to face a daunting task as a person of prophecy, and the result he must achieve. I believe he said something close to that effect, or I may have remembered wrongly.

[clutzyninja]

Rand isn't stupid.  He recognizes her importance in his life despite not trusting her.  He maybe even realizes that he SHOULD have trusted her more.  Add that to the fact that he absolutely blames himself for not stopping Lanfear before Moiraine sacrificed himself and that he carries around ALL his gyuilt like a cross and you have a complete explanation about why he thinks of her like he does.

[Agitel]

While they may have been closer than you remember, I think it's also important to point out that Rand feels a lot of guilt over her death, and it was her death (and his deepening madness) that started his "list."

[clutzyninja]

While they may have been closer than you remember, I think it's also important to point out that Rand feels a lot of guilt over her death, and it was her death (and his deepening madness) that started his "list."

Really?  I know she was first on his list, but I could have sworn he started the list before that....

[Agitel]

 

While they may have been closer than you remember, I think it's also important to point out that Rand feels a lot of guilt over her death, and it was her death (and his deepening madness) that started his "list."

Really?  I know she was first on his list, but I could have sworn he started the list before that....

 

 

I may be wrong. Actually, it may not even have been until after Dumai's Wells. I forget...

 

She is first, though.

[Barid Bel Medar]

I'm not too sure on this. I don't think the "list" starts until later, but he always keeps a note of the women he has killed. The first goes way back to the random Darkfriend in tDR. 

 

Nonetheless, when Moiraine dies her name is put first. 

 

As to the question. No, they were not that close in life. At the end they started to become close, but the closeness comes from Rand realizing what he lost after her death when he had matured. At the time he didn't appreciate what she did for him, but when she had died (and died for him) he realises and grows closer to her in her death. 

 

Kinda like a parent. At the time Rand is all rebellious teenager, but then he develops an understanding and appreciation of her when he gets older. 

 

For the rest, as they say, RAFO. It becomes clearer when put in perspective. 

[fionwe1987]

I don't quite see why this needs to be RAFO'd. It can be perfectly discussed within the bounds of the.

 

I do think Rand puts her on a pedestal. That's because he sees in the end that she had a task just like his. And she coolly made the ultimate sacrifice. I'd say a good part of his later "hardness" was from an attempt to emulate her without completely understanding her.

 

As for Nynaeve, her statement makes no sense. She never saw Moiraine change her behavior towards Rand. She only got second hand reports from Egwene.

[Rhienne]

 

 

I do think Rand puts her on a pedestal. That's because he sees in the end that she had a task just like his. And she coolly made the ultimate sacrifice. I'd say a good part of his later "hardness" was from an attempt to emulate her without completely understanding her.

I think when Rand saw her sacrifice herself to save him from Lanfear when he couldn't do what he needed to (i.e. harm a woman) he realised how truly committed she was to her goals.  And obviously her goals were very noble.  I don't think he was entirely convinced up until that point that she wasn't trying to tie White Tower strings to him, or manipulate him in some way that would benefit her or the other Aes Sedai even while helping him.  It took the ultimate sacrifice from Moiraine (albeit a temporary one!) for Rand to realise that actually the Dragon Reborn and the Light were the only things that mattered to her - they were proof that he could have trusted her.

 

I don't think his hardness comes from trying to emulate Moiraine.  I think that is a decision he makes on his own, and I don't think there are any Rand POVs that even suggest that he might be trying to emulate Moiraine.  I don't think Rand saw her as hard (although other characters, e.g. Thom, recognised her strength) but rather as aloof and secretive.

 

 

 

As for Nynaeve, her statement makes no sense.

Which statement?