[Non Spoilers]Game of Thrones Season Three

[SinisterDeath]

Jaime just seems like a completely terrible swordsman in the series, I wouldn't be surprised if show-only watchers just thought he was all talk and no game. He's much weakened from being kept a prisoner for so many months. Brienne's good, don't get me wrong, but Jaime was at a severe disadvantage.

Just one of those match-ups we'd love to see, but could never have them both in a situation where they were both in their prime.

 

I'll say this much though.'

1) she's in that armor all day, marching beside him. Its  probably he has just a little bit more energy than she did for a sword fight. Though, she's been probably working in that armor for who knows how long, and has built up that endurance, where he hasn't.

2) Unlike Jaime, she probably hits a fight going full out, where as Jaime loves to play with his opponent. That kind of Cockiness, can lead to an early grave.

 

Oh, and besides which.

She could take a hit or two with that armor on.

Jaime couldn't. So yea, another point of disadvantage for Jaime.

[Tsukibana]

The swamp people... look different than I expected...

Was figuring more loin cloth than nobles clothing.

This.

[Tsukibana]

So,book readers... think we'll get to see Tyrion's... um... escapade... this season?

[SinisterDeath]

Yes

[Red2111]

escapade??  which one    oh prior warnign, i call Breinne, Berny.  so when you see me using that name, thats who i'm talking about

 

haven't gotten to see the episode yet, got caught up in watching a run-through of Breaking Bad.  got bubba hooked to the show  *grins* and we're almost done with Season 2.     will be watching this one tonight though.

 

 

from the sounds of it, looks like the goat has made an appearance, eh?   kinda progressing on his story line rather fast imo.  and yeah i agree SD, from only watching the series, Jamie looks like a primp little show off, not the BAMF lovable cocky snarky guy he truely is.

 

re-berny vs Jamie in a duel.  Berny is used to wearing that armor so its less of a hamper to her that you guys say imo.  Jamie OTOH, he was imprisoned in a cell and beaten a few times, likely the Wolfs didn't feed him too well though they did feed him.  and his arms were bound the entire journey (which by book standards should be about a month or two into the journey iirc)

 

his muscles were fatigued and he hadn't worked the forms in about 6 months to a year, where as Berny got to practice and exercise and eat well for the entire time before the journey.  jamie also underestimates her, which is his own fault and works to her advantage.   not to mention that Jamie really doesnt want to get free until he's closer to Kings Landing because as little protection that she provides he also understands how big of a price he has on his head and that some people woudl be better suited to killing him rather than doing what Cat is.

 

plus, even though you lot dont like him and he is a cocky jerk most of the time, he has honor and keeps his word.  he made a deal with Cat and intended to keep it.

[SinisterDeath]

re-berny vs Jamie in a duel.  Berny is used to wearing that armor so its less of a hamper to her that you guys say imo

 

So yea.. I did say that...

Though, she's been probably working in that armor for who knows how long, and has built up that

 

That = Endurance.

Heat however, is always going to be an issue...

.  Jamie OTOH, he was imprisoned in a cell and beaten a few times, likely the Wolfs didn't feed him too well though they did feed him.  and his arms were bound the entire journey (which by book standards should be about a month or two into the journey iirc)

 

his muscles were fatigued and he hadn't worked the forms in about 6 months to a year, where as Berny got to practice and exercise and eat well for the entire time before the journey.  jamie also underestimates her, which is his own fault and works to her advantage.   not to mention that Jamie really doesnt want to get free until he's closer to Kings Landing because as little protection that she provides he also understands how big of a price he has on his head and that some people woudl be better suited to killing him rather than doing what Cat is.

 

 

His condition, I believe was mentioned by Agitel.

He's much weakened from being kept a prisoner for so many months.

 

 

plus, even though you lot dont like him and he is a cocky jerk most of the time, he has honor and keeps his word.  he made a deal with Cat and intended to keep it.

 

I like Jaime! At least, I did in the books about this time-frame actually.

Prior to it. He sucked as a character. But he grows on you like a Fungus.

 

However, I do like Breinne so much more. And, as I did say, Having a fair-fight between the two of them.. Just isn't possible. They'll never be given an opportunity, to fight each other in their prime.

 

But I do maintain, that Breinne will confront someone with everything she has at the beginning, where as Jaime will play with someone, until he gets bored, or is actually required to unleash his inner bad-ass. Its Jaime's Cockiness that, in a toe-to-toe fight, could kill him.

[Nolder]

1) she's in that armor all day, marching beside him. Its  probably he has just a little bit more energy than she did for a sword fight. Though, she's been probably working in that armor for who knows how long, and has built up that endurance, where he hasn't.

While it's true that Jaime is in a weakened state it's incorrect to say he hasn't built up his endurance over the years. It may have taken a hit but as a member of the King's Guard he definitely had to wear armor and he's been in wars before that besides. His endurance may not be at it's best because he's been in captivity but he is far more familiar with fighting and warfare than Brienne is. 

 

I believe my favorite quote of the series in context sums Brienne's experience up nicely.

 

 

 

Lord Rowan beside her did not join the merriment. “They are all so young,” he said.

 

It was true. The Knight of Flowers could not have reached his second name day when Robert slew Prince Rhaegar on the Trident. Few of the others were very much older. They had been babes during the Sack of King’s Landing, and no more than boys when Balon Greyjoy raised the Iron Islands in rebellion. They are still unblooded, Catelyn thought as she watched Lord Bryce goad Ser Robar into juggling a brace of daggers. It is all a game to them still, a tourney writ large, and all they see is the chance for glory and honor and spoils. They are boys drunk on song and story, and like all boys, they think themselves immortal. “War will make them old,” Catelyn said, “as it did us.” She had been a girl when Robert and Ned and Jon Arryn raised their banners against Aerys Targaryen, a woman by the time the fighting was done. “I pity them.” 

 

“Why?” Lord Rowan asked her. “Look at them. They’re young and strong, full of life and laughter. And lust, aye, more lust than they know what to do with. There will be many a bastard bred this night, I promise you. Why pity?”

 

“Because it will not last,” Catelyn answered, sadly. “Because they are the knights of summer, and winter is coming.”

 

“Lady Catelyn, you are wrong.” Brienne regarded her with eyes as blue as her armor. “Winter will never come for the likes of us. Should we die in battle, they will surely sing of us, and it’s always summer in the songs. In the songs all knights are gallant, all maids are beautiful, and the sun is always shining.” Winter comes for all of us, Catelyn thought. For me, it came when Ned died. It will come for you too, child, and sooner than you like. She did not have the heart to say it.

[Red2111]

 I like Jaime! At least, I did in the books about this time-frame actually.

Prior to it. He sucked as a character. But he grows on you like a Fungus.

 

However, I do like Breinne so much more. And, as I did say, Having a fair-fight between the two of them.. Just isn't possible. They'll never be given an opportunity, to fight each other in their prime.

 

 

But I do maintain, that Breinne will confront someone with everything she has at the beginning, where as Jaime will play with someone, until he gets bored, or is actually required to unleash his inner bad-ass. Its Jaime's Cockiness that, in a toe-to-toe fight, could kill him.

 

 

 

i never said no one else brought up those points SD; but alot of people seem to think berny's armor puts her at a server disadvantage against Jamie.  where as i, and others, think the reverse; that Jamies captivity put him at a greater disadvantage.

 

i still haven't watched the episode so i'm gogin on what i recall from teh books.  to be frank, i think he let her win during that fight and it was a test just to see how good she was with that sword to see if he coudl rely on her in a pinch fighting wise.  as i said, he didn't want to really escape at that point.

 

 

i agree that jamies show boating is a disadvatnage but disagree that would kill him. he only show boats with a person he underestimates adn in a situaiton he feels confident in, and by the first blow hes able to acurately judge whether he can continue showing off or not.  look at his fight with Ned in the 1st book.  he underestimated Ned, found with the first blow that Ned was a serious opponent and stopped showing off until Ned was no longer a threat. 

 

he's a cocky bad ass, not stupid

 

 

and Jamie in his Prime (during the days of Mad Aryes) versus Berny in her prime (with Renly).  Jamie would wipe the floor with her easily and with one hand tied behind his back *nods*

[Nolder]

Book fight and show fight were a bit different IMO.

[Nolder]

[Tsukibana]

LMAO... certain people betrayed by their smile...

[SinisterDeath]

i never said no one else brought up those points SD; but alot of people seem to think berny's armor puts her at a server disadvantage against Jamie.  where as i, and others, think the reverse; that Jamies captivity put him at a greater disadvantage.

True, but it should be noted, that while the armor isn't a severe disadvantage against Jaime, in some ways, it is a disadvantage, just not a severe one. But it does have severe advantages to. 

Its hard to say just how much his captivity has harmed him at this point in the show. his endurance has obviously suffered... But his strength? Well, since he's not skin and bones, he's lost probably minimal muscle mass, so... minimal strength loss? Something that walking outside with Breinne for a couple of weeks can't fix?

Not sure how hot it was out there, but I would say if its anything like 80+ and anything like the South's Humidity... That's going to affect anyone's stamina.

 

Anyways, the biggest thing to remember though, is that Jaime knows where to strike an opponent with armor on. Its protection mostly against the ignorant masses, but against a sword-mater like Jaime? All he has to do is play with the person enough to find that hole.

But one hit against him?

Dead as a bug.

Might sound familiar concept with Tyrion's body guard. :wink

 

Put them both in their best suit of armor, with their best sword, in their prime, well rested, and well trained...

Alas, its a fight I wish we could have seen!

 

and Jamie in his Prime (during the days of Mad Aryes) versus Berny in her prime (with Renly).  Jamie would wipe the floor with her easily and with one hand tied behind his back *nods*

 

Perhaps,  but do you consider Berny in her prime now?

And if Jaime's going to tie a hand behind his back, he's gotta go south paw.

[michellem]

I looooooved the second episode. Was hoping for some Danny, but oh well. Super excited to finally see the swamp people.

 

I'm curious what they'll do with Rickon. In the books Osha takes him and head east I think, and Hodor takes Bran and the swampies north. Since they're taking Osha with them, I'm not sure how they'll get rid of Rickon.

 

I love Osha in the TV show... I'll admit it was a bit weird in season 2 to see Tonks naked But I love her portrayal of Osha, so amazing.

[SinisterDeath]

I looooooved the second episode. Was hoping for some Danny, but oh well. Super excited to finally see the swamp people.

 

I'm curious what they'll do with Rickon. In the books Osha takes him and head east I think, and Hodor takes Bran and the swampies north. Since they're taking Osha with them, I'm not sure how they'll get rid of Rickon.

 

I love Osha in the TV show... I'll admit it was a bit weird in season 2 to see Tonks naked But I love her portrayal of Osha, so amazing.

Aye, I did realize later that day, that they didn't show danny at all.

 

Oye, Rickon's always been kind of an annoying character. (given the shows plot.. He must there-fore survive the longest! )

But, it really does make me wonder, even at this shows pace, can they wait another season before they have to replace Rickon or even bran? I hope they are smart and start filming in advance for the children  that will quite literally out-grow their respective roles fairly fast... Bran might be lucky and not have to worry about it, but Rickon definitely... Course following the books he remains off-screen for a very long time...

[michellem]

The one person I'm thinking most of when it comes to age is actually Arya. She's already starting to mature a lot, give her two more years and she'll start looking more like a young woman than a child.

[SinisterDeath]

The one person I'm thinking most of when it comes to age is actually Arya. She's already starting to mature a lot, give her two more years and she'll start looking more like a young woman than a child.

Yea, forgot about that.. Big problem with her story is its so compact, that they probably could film the next arc In hers this or next season before she really starts showing, but then we have another, potentially huge problem.

 

They'll have run out of book material!

[Tsukibana]

... I'll admit it was a bit weird in season 2 to see Tonks naked ...

speak for yourself... no wonder Lupin married her!!

[SinisterDeath]

Tonks? Lupin? Who?

[michellem]

 

 

... I'll admit it was a bit weird in season 2 to see Tonks naked ...

speak for yourself... no wonder Lupin married her!!

Lol the lady who lays Osha plays Nymphadora Tonks in the Harry Potter movies

Lol the lady who lays Osha plays Nymphadora Tonks in the Harry Potter movies

 

 

Tsuki I was NOT complaining, she is HOT... lol. I like the boobies.

[Nolder]

Meh, she's ok I guess. Not really to my tastes though.

[Tsukibana]

 

 

 

... I'll admit it was a bit weird in season 2 to see Tonks naked ...

speak for yourself... no wonder Lupin married her!!

>Lol the lady who lays Osha plays Nymphadora Tonks in the Harry Potter movies

Lol the lady who lays Osha plays Nymphadora Tonks in the Harry Potter movies

 

 

Tsuki I was NOT complaining, she is HOT... lol. I like the boobies.

 

She could change her appearance and shape at will, you know... *wanders off to dream dirty dreams*

[Red2111]

finally watched the episode last night.  heres my review

 

i liked it for the most part.  i dislike how their turning Margeries character into some demented chick though.  "i've wonder what it would be like to kill things"  o.0   i also can't say this enough, but damnit ENOUGH with making Cersie a sympathetic character!!  we know she doesn't have control over Joff and Joff is a monster, but cripes she wasn't exactly "oh gosh i can't do anything but sit here and simper while him and my dad rule the kingdom"  what does HBO have against making me hater her character as much as i do in the books by this point?

 

Sam's storyline is confusing me. though i was happy with beyond the wall

 

 

why hasn't he killed the Walker by now??

 

 

 

i equally dislike how they've done Bran and Rickons arcs.  by now this group should have split off into two  (Mish Osha takes Rickon south to where the Tullys are, i think its called highgarden??)  i did however like the frog people.  the boy was fabulous, especailly showcasing his lack of fear towards Summer.

 

 

ayra - this part was once again fantastic.  she really nails the part imo  loved the ending with the Hound

 

 

kings landing - this, aside form my beef with the parts with Margie and Cersie, was done lovely.  the old grandma is still by far one of my fav characters in the series and the actress does her great justice   i also liked the added scene with Tyrion and Shay. 

 

 

jamie - another actor that does the character spot on.  they really sped up his and berny's journey, unless that isn't the Goat their fighting agaisnt, though i can only think of one battle Berny and Jamie fight during that journey.

 

 

my last beef though is with Theon.  wtf HBO you better not speed up his plot line

 

 

he's not even calling himself Reek yet *glares*

 

 

 

that said, it seems like HBO is trying to keep all the plots going at once, which makes it sorta of hard to keep things together with recalling plot progression from the series. for instance, Theon we dont see again until DwD; yet here we have HBO continuing on with his plot line.  it will be interesting to see how long they can keep this up before chunking plot lines in blocks liek GRRM had to do with the books.

 

 

 

re-rickon  

 

right, and they dont give the tot much screen time on the show either so if he gets replaced so long as the replacement is similar there wont be much problem imo  when he is on screen he's hard to focus on because he's never sitting still or in frame for more than a few seconds minus the one stint at the table in S2.

 

i've been wondering about his plot line and how HBO plans to go about it myself

 

 

btw - totally did not put together that Osha was Tonks.  i knew i recognized her somewhat

 

 

 

 

i never said no one else brought up those points SD; but alot of people seem to think berny's armor puts her at a server disadvantage against Jamie.  where as i, and others, think the reverse; that Jamies captivity put him at a greater disadvantage.

True, but it should be noted, that while the armor isn't a severe disadvantage against Jaime, in some ways, it is a disadvantage, just not a severe one. But it does have severe advantages to. 

Its hard to say just how much his captivity has harmed him at this point in the show. his endurance has obviously suffered... But his strength? Well, since he's not skin and bones, he's lost probably minimal muscle mass, so... minimal strength loss? Something that walking outside with Breinne for a couple of weeks can't fix?

Not sure how hot it was out there, but I would say if its anything like 80+ and anything like the South's Humidity... That's going to affect anyone's stamina.

 

Anyways, the biggest thing to remember though, is that Jaime knows where to strike an opponent with armor on. Its protection mostly against the ignorant masses, but against a sword-mater like Jaime? All he has to do is play with the person enough to find that hole.

But one hit against him?

Dead as a bug.

Might sound familiar concept with Tyrion's body guard. :wink

 

Put them both in their best suit of armor, with their best sword, in their prime, well rested, and well trained...

Alas, its a fight I wish we could have seen!

 

>and Jamie in his Prime (during the days of Mad Aryes) versus Berny in her prime (with Renly).  Jamie would wipe the floor with her easily and with one hand tied behind his back *nods*

 

Perhaps,  but do you consider Berny in her prime now?

And if Jaime's going to tie a hand behind his back, he's gotta go south paw.

 

 

you knwo what, you lot keep forgetting to mention that Jamies hands we're bound the entire time, which effected him more than his captivity imo.  even in his current state, had his hands not been bound Berny wouldn't have stood a chance.

 

 

even in the situation you posted, with Berny having better, training Jamie would still bested her because of his cokiness and self assuredness and his quicker than Berny becuase of his slighter frame.  what you call cockiness, i call a fighting strategy.  he verbally abuses his oppenent to distract them; where as he's used to running his lips, his opponent is now having to split their focus between ignoring his jabber to concerntrate on their moves and his.  his mouthing off automatically puts a person on the defensive.

 

as for prime, nah i'd consider Berny in her prime with Renly because of what she was fighting for.  trying to impress Renly effected her fighting for the better imo

[Nolder]

I think you're off about Margery and Cersai Red.

 

Margery is not demented, she's shrewd and manipulative. She got Joffrey to trust her even though she was formerly Renly's wife (we've seen what he did to Sansa, merely the sister/daughter of traitors). She's winning the love of the common people and she's ousting Cersai as the true queen.

 

Cersai is not meant to be seen as sympathetic here. She's meant to  be seen as losing her grip, slipping, as well as vain. She's concerned about getting old and losing her position of power to Margery.

[Red2111]

oh i know that about Margery; but in the books its all done behind the scenes adn she has very little character building at all.  in fact i recall it comming as quiet a shock to see that margery has a pair and isn't the little dove she's made out to be.  in this, i think HBO must be doing better character building with her *shrugs*

 

 

Cersie though, i disagree.  HBO is pointedly taking every chance they get to turn her into a sympathetic character.  with Robert we saw her physically and mentally abused her entire marriage and then we her the poor thing[/i] had a miscarriage.  all we really see is her rejoicing over his death.  what they down play is that she arranged for his death to happen and that she went and had that baby aborted cause she couldnt stand the thought of any child of Roberts growing inside of her.

 

She's seen as an adoptive mother to Sansa now who pitties the child for being betrothed to Joff because Cersie knows hes more liek Robert than Jamie; we see her trying to take Sansa under her wing.  whats glossed over is the underlaying threats Cersie hands to Sansa with that letter she has Sansa write and the entire "drunken pity party" Cersie threw her self during the battle of black water and how she intended to have the entire lot of them slaughtered as well as the things she said during that part.

 

Shes seen as trying to compromise with her son instead of trying to control him.  shes seen as being placated at the meetings before her father arrived rather actually controlling them.  and we 100% missed out on all the back scene things she did; like sleeping with her cousin since Jamie wasn't around.

 

 

they've downplayed her manipulativeness and turned her into a "character that is just doing what she can in the situation shes in, to gain security and control in the only way she can becuase everything else is out of control" 

 

the Cersie in the books thinks shes "Tywin Lannister with useful tool between her legs" and acts accordingly. 

 

the Cersie in the show is "doing what she can to survive and making the best out of a situation she's been put into"

 

imo, they're making her character like Skyler from Breaking Bad in Season 3, which is not what Cersie as a character is. she should have the perosnality of Jamie but more vendictive, backstabbing and manipulative. 

 

i dislike this greatly and think that it will come back to hurt the show once the plot continues; and you lot whove read the books know why i say this.

[Nolder]

oh i know that about Margery; but in the books its all done behind the scenes adn she has very little character building at all.  in fact i recall it comming as quiet a shock to see that margery has a pair and isn't the little dove she's made out to be.  in this, i think HBO must be doing better character building with her *shrugs*

Well that's one of the advantages of the show I would say. We're getting a lot of "new" material that is behind the scenes in the books. Take Rob's stuff for example or even Loras/Renly. That was very behind the scenes but in the show it's shown straight up.

 

 

Cersie though, i disagree.  HBO is pointedly taking every chance they get to turn her into a sympathetic character.  with Robert we saw her physically and mentally abused her entire marriage and then we her the poor thing[/i] had a miscarriage.  all we really see is her rejoicing over his death.  what they down play is that she arranged for his death to happen and that she went and had that baby aborted cause she couldnt stand the thought of any child of Roberts growing inside of her.

 

She's seen as an adoptive mother to Sansa now who pitties the child for being betrothed to Joff because Cersie knows hes more liek Robert than Jamie; we see her trying to take Sansa under her wing.  whats glossed over is the underlaying threats Cersie hands to Sansa with that letter she has Sansa write and the entire "drunken pity party" Cersie threw her self during the battle of black water and how she intended to have the entire lot of them slaughtered as well as the things she said during that part.

 

Shes seen as trying to compromise with her son instead of trying to control him.  shes seen as being placated at the meetings before her father arrived rather actually controlling them.  and we 100% missed out on all the back scene things she did; like sleeping with her cousin since Jamie wasn't around.

 

 

they've downplayed her manipulativeness and turned her into a "character that is just doing what she can in the situation shes in, to gain security and control in the only way she can becuase everything else is out of control" 

 

the Cersie in the books thinks shes "Tywin Lannister with useful tool between her legs" and acts accordingly. 

 

the Cersie in the show is "doing what she can to survive and making the best out of a situation she's been put into"

 

imo, they're making her character like Skyler from Breaking Bad in Season 3, which is not what Cersie as a character is. she should have the perosnality of Jamie but more vendictive, backstabbing and manipulative. 

 

i dislike this greatly and think that it will come back to hurt the show once the plot continues; and you lot whove read the books know why i say this.

Eh I have to disagree. I don't think the audience is meant to sympathize with her. Pity maybe. But then I think book Cersai is also a character to pity.