Sheriam

[PheonixCat231]

Has anyone figured out yet whose been beating up Sheriam? I was rereading KoD and came across an odd passage on page 114 in the hard back, in the chapter "When Last Sounds" I'm wondering if i'm reading to much into it but could it be Lelaine?

[Mat is the Boss]

I would guess that it was Halima.

[RobertAlexWillis]

I think its Lelaine too, but Sheriam has presented enough inconsistencies over the course of the story to leave many, many suspects.

[DemandredFO]

It occured to me that Sheriam was Black Ajah and Halima was doing it as was said cuz Sheriam wouldn't do what is needed. I'd think Lelaine would be more circumspect but considering what was hinted that she did to Feialaine maybe it is her. I think it was Balthamel though

[RobertAlexWillis]

-shrug- Aran'gar is definitely number two on my list. Lelaine just seems more likely to me because I think she needed information more than Aran'gar did. After all, as Halima, she got private sessions with Egwene every night, knew when she was sleeping, etc. Lelaine was sort of shut out, and had her maid/spy Selame run off. So, she needed information more. As for other Aes Sedai, as the head of the Blue Ajah, Lelaine is more likely to have something to hold over Sheriam.

 

But if it turns out to have been Aran'gar, I won't be shocked.

[Graendals favourite]

I've thought it might be someone of the secret conspiracy that seems to link the Tower and the rebels. The sitters being the old Sitters of the five other Ajahs who fled, umm, *searches*, Magla, Saroiya, Takima, Faiselle and Varilin. They would have wanted to influence Egwene too, and perhaps when Sheriam's own power was dwindling, they'd have tried to use her. They seem quite intent even desperate, perhaps they've sworn an oath to the Ajah heads in the Tower to do what they do?

[Thor]

I thought it was Halima but there is much doubt. Dunno, it always seemed to me that when her clothes exploded from her, it must have been done by channeling, I'm pretty sure if the flogger (is there such a word?) is using saidar, people would have got suspiscious already.

 

So I thought it might be Halima.

[HotW Moiraine]

It's TOO obvious to have been Halima, everyone goes Halima Halima Halima! Robert has a way of throwing something in our noses than laughing at us when we read it wrong. Besides, we know he isn't just showing us this so we know it's Halima, This is WAY TOO obvious. I mean he said who killed Asmodean is obvious and look at what it's caused :P

 

Lelaine, unless Robert turned on his own style.

[Thor]

Many things were too obvious in the books. But as I said, this is not obvious at all, there is much doubt.

[cannon]

I'm in the camp that its Lelaine. But I think its because Lelaine is Black Ajah.

 

Early on, she badgered Egwene to try to get all talk of Black Ajah outlawed. And she and Delana used to be good friends in the Tower. There's also Egwene's dream that Lelaine would be stilled, which could be many things, but for now I tend to lean toward Black Ajah.

[RobertAlexWillis]

Well .... I don't think Lelaine is Black Ajah, because if she were, she would have been a much more useful tool for Halima than Delana was. So, Halima would have ended up as Lelaine's secretary, rather than Delana's.

[Guest Majsju]

Lelaine is #1 on my list, if not her someone else in the Hall not firmly in Egwene's pocket.

 

definitly not Halima.

[PheonixCat231]

I'm in the camp that its Lelaine. But I think its because Lelaine is Black Ajah.

 

Early on' date=' she badgered Egwene to try to get all talk of Black Ajah outlawed. And she and Delana used to be good friends in the Tower. There's also Egwene's dream that Lelaine would be stilled, which could be many things, but for now I tend to lean toward Black Ajah.[/quote']

 

 

oh my! i missed that dream about Lelaine being stilled, would you please tell me! =-)

[cannon]

There's also Egwene's dream that Lelaine would be stilled' date=' which could be many things, but for now I tend to lean toward Black Ajah.[/quote']

oh my! i missed that dream about Lelaine being stilled, would you please tell me! =-)

 

My apologies. I was looking back over that section of the book, trying to find the quote for you, and it was Elaida dreaming that, not Egwene. Obviously since it was Elaida, it carries a LOT less prophetic meaning.

 

I don't know if I misread it, or misremembered it, or what but I know I've been thinking it was important when it probably isn't. Mea culpa, mea culpa.

 

Anyway, about Lelaine being black...

 

With my recent revelation I am doubting my Black label a little, but I don't find it out of the realm of possibility. Especially based on her votes in the Hall. That could be explained away just based on personality, but it does make sense if she is BA.

 

And I disagree that Lelaine is the best option for Halima. If her goal was to get close to Egwene, being the servant of Lelaine would make her immediately suspicious, and less likely to get close to Egwene.

[Guest cwestervelt]

Lelaine is #1 on my list' date=' if not her someone else in the Hall not firmly in Egwene's pocket.

 

definitly not Halima.[/quote']

 

Lelaine has always been at the top of my very short suspect list. Short as in the only one on it. Lelaine seeming to think she is the Blue Ajah, the Hall and the Tower all rolled into one, plus the way she refered to Egwene as "that girl" just seemed to clinch it for me.

[Blue]

I also think its Lelaine. I firmly believe she would do anything that will get her more control and power.

I dont hav my book wit me at de mo but in KoD when Egwene has been captured doesnt Lelaine say something 2 Siuan that indicates it was her. I cant really remember so sorry if its completely wrong could someone check it pls :?

[Thor]

Ok then, why would Sheriam allow herself to get messed up by Lelaine?

 

Why would Sheriam not speak up? Is Lelaine that much stronger than Sheriam?

 

Doesn't all make sense to me.

[Guest cwestervelt]

Sheriam is from the Blue Ajah and Lelaine is the Head of the Blue Ajah in Salidar. That makes Lelaine's actions where other Blue's are concerned virtually invoilate. Who does that leave for Sheriam to complain to? Egwene? Hardly. That would be admitting she isn't capable of standing up for herself which would indicate she is unsuitable to be Keeper. Sheriam is so indoctrinated into the Aes Sedai that she would probably see such an action as political suicide.

[isleofjib]

but once she's the keeper, she's not technically a blue anymore, is she? so then lelaine would have no authority to do anything to her. would you consider what is being done to sheriam using the one power as a weapon? if so, wouldn't that make whoever is doing this black regardless of who they are?

[Guest cwestervelt]

but once she's the keeper' date=' she's not technically a blue anymore, is she? so then lelaine would have no authority to do anything to her. would you consider what is being done to sheriam using the one power as a weapon? if so, wouldn't that make whoever is doing this black regardless of who they are?[/quote']

 

Has it ever been stated that no longer belonging to an Ajah is part of being Keeper too? I can only think of that as applying to the Amyrlin. Even if it is supposed to be true it has been noted numerous times that they regularly still think of themselves as if they are part of their old Ajah.

 

And enlighten me on where it says Sheriam was beaten up using the power? I don't recall any statement to that effect. Even if she was, there is plenty of comments throughout the books concerning punishing with the Power happening even though it is technically against Tower Law. So if it was seen as a punishment, it wouldn't be a problem. Not to mention that if the Aes Sedai doing the beating doesn't consider anything short of an intent to inflict permanent physical harm with the Power to be using it as a weapon, then just beating someone to a pulp with the Power wouldn't invoke the Oath.

[puddlejumper]

I highly doubt it was Lelaine unless she is Black Ajah. I do not think AS beat each other like that, no matter what, especially to the Keeper.

[isleofjib]

And enlighten me on where it says Sheriam was beaten up using the power? I don't recall any statement to that effect.

 

please reread my statement and tell me where i say she is being beaten up with the power? i don't. maybe i wasn't clear enough, but i was asking if holding someone down with the power and ripping their clothes off while they are being beaten qualifies as using the power as a weapon...

[Guest cwestervelt]

And enlighten me on where it says Sheriam was beaten up using the power? I don't recall any statement to that effect.

 

please reread my statement and tell me where i say she is being beaten up with the power? i don't. maybe i wasn't clear enough' date=' but i was asking if holding someone down with the power and ripping their clothes off while they are being beaten qualifies as using the power as a weapon...[/quote']

 

would you consider what is being done to sheriam using the one power as a weapon? if so, wouldn't that make whoever is doing this black regardless of who they are?

I don't concider it likely that the Power was used. So, when you made that statement, I assumed your mention of the Power as a weapon meant that you did. As such, I was just trying to indicating why there really is nothing to stop them from using it to perform a beating.

[Master of the Blades]

here is the relevant passage about the One power being used

 

That evening, as Sheriam enters her tent, she is shielded, stripped and beaten because she does not know Egwene's plan. She wishes she never spoke to a sitter in the Hall.(TPOD. Unexpected Absences(

 

The sitter could be Delana and that would point the finger at Halima. But channeling Saidin would have been a dead giveaway.

 

Lelaine is Blue and a Sitter. She would seem to be a likely candidate. She has never shown any tendency to use violence to make her point. She seems to get her way simply by bullying any sisters. And we have no inkling she is Black.

 

Maigan has replaced Anayia on the council. She is in cahoots with Lelaine. She seems to have no reluctance to use whatever means. she suggested using compulsion when bonding ashaman warders. She also has no reluctance in using bullying tactics.

 

Can anyone recall if she was the one who twisted Myrelle's arm to bond Llyw Kairen's warder (KOD A Call to a sitting).

 

We have no evidence that Maigan is Black. To me recollection the only time weh have seen or heard from her is in (COT What the oath Rod Can Do). It is also a possibility that Maigan is working at Lelaine's direction.

[Guest cwestervelt]

You can argue that Shielding someone is using the One Power as a weapon as it renders the victim near helpless, but Aes Sedai don't have a problem doing it. Neither do they they have any problems about Shielding someone and then beating the crap out of them with the One Power. What was done to Sheriam pales next to what was done to Rand using the One Power in Lord of Chaos. Sheilding someones so that another person can use a mundane method of beating them is definitely going to be doable.

 

 

 

BTW: Why am I arguing how Sheriam could have been beaten using the Power when I don't believe that was how she was beaten?