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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY
Barid Bel Medar

The Seanchan: Past, Present and Future.

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Now that the series is over and events have played out as far as we will see them, it is a good time to look at the Seanchan dynasty. 

 

 Looking at the history of the Seanchan and how they have progressed to the Last Battle, how effective was Ishamael's corruption, did it work as intended, or did the Light turn it into an asset? 

 

Will Ishamael's influence be felt long into the 4th Age, or has Rand sown the seed of healing? Will Mat, Tuon and Min tend to the seed that Rand has planted? 


How will Egwene's revelations - considering her heroic death, she may be viewed as a saviour, even by the Seanchan, when they learn of what she did (that is if anyone actually comprehends how much she did) - affect the Empire? Tuon herself has shown doubts, with her iron will - I dare say the average Seanchan would be much more devastated by this revelation. How will the Sul'dam feel about it, will they be as ready to collar those who would be their kin? 

 

The fan favourite no doubt - what happened with Hawkwing's chat to Tuon, did he condemn the a'dam, did Tuon believe it was really Hawkwing? Will she take any notice of him?

 

How will they treat men now that that taint is cleansed and they witness the Asha'man's rise to glory and saviours rather than cursed madmen? 

 

On a similar note, how will the Seanchan people react to prolonged exposure to un-collared channelers? Now that they are a permanent fixture in the mainlands, they cannot avoid exposure to Aes Sedai and Asha'man. Will they come to realise that these men and women are just as human as they are? 

 

Will Rand stand by and allow events to unfold? Obviously he won't have the influence of the Dragon Reborn - however, he may still have some of his unique Talents, and there is of course the infamous Pipe. 

 

How will the civil war in Seanchan affect their society as a whole? Never in their history have they been truly divided. There have been rebellions against the Empire, but the Empire has always been a constant. What will happen now that there IS no Empire in Seanchan? Will various factions arise who condemn the a'dam? 

 

 

So many questions, discuss to your hearts content. 

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I think if I am going to guess that slowly over time the practice with collaring women who can channel will end, however I do think it will take time, to much of Seanchan society and infrastructure is based on Damane. I think the mainland will help and perhaps put political pressure on Seanchan, and that they can not avoid channelers now will also slowly get them used to them being normal members of society. I do not think Rand will get involved, even if his new abilities allow him to do more then to light a pipe I think he will just stay out of anything, the only possibility of him actually getting involved I think would be if one of his lovers, or one of his close female channeler friends where to get captured by the Seanchan, then he might sneak in and try to get them out.

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I too think the Seanchan will stop collaring women.  Just before Fortuona decides to comit the Seanchan forces to the last battle, she speculates that she could swoop in and collar the Aes Sedai, she thinks that those Marath Damane will be needed to retake the Seanchan homeland.  Sooner or later, either someone (Mat) will point out or she will realize that if the Suldam she already has learn to channel, she will significantly increase the number of channelers she has at her disposal.  By releasing any Damane collered in Randland, she can probably even negotiate for assistance in retaking Seanchan.  The benifits will be huge.  It would just be a matter of finding a way to cement Suldam and Damane loyalty to the Crystal Throne.  Perhaps one of Moridin's binders will end up in her hand?

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One thing is clear that Tuon will use channlers in battle.Either forced or not.She has no choice because the base of Seachen power is the use of the OP in battle.

 

One way out could be the AM or the AS(if they get rid of the oath rod) pledging to aid Tuon in regaining the Seachen homeland in turn for stopping the practice of collaring.I think that is something Tuon would sign off on as it would not reduce her military strength in anyway.Other than that I don't see any chance of the damane being let free.

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I think I'm one of the few people who was disappointed with the Tuon/Egwene showdown.  I felt like we had been building to this moment where Tuon has to face that she can channel and that all sul'dam can too, and her response just seemed like it wasn't a shock to her at all.  Part of me thinks that Tuon is just stubborn enough to carry on as normal with collaring channelers.  I'm not sure if her conversation with Artur Hawking had any additional impact on her.  I do think it was a foolish move on Tuon's part to ok Egwene's suggestions about letting Seachan and Aes Sedai convince each other that their way of life is better. Having said that, a lot of the Seanchan-born damane seemed very happy with their lot and horrifed at the idea of being released, so it might take a generation of female channelers for any damane to actually want to be released.  Would have been very helpful to have a Tuon POV reflecting on her thoughts with regards to this.

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Tuon said "fully trained" damane could choose to be set free, basically it means damane's with their spirit broken who would never choose freedom.And Tuon being ready to tear up the Dragon's peace within days of signing it would have no hesitation in withdrawing her oral word to Egwene if even 1 damane chooses to leave.

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I think I'm one of the few people who was disappointed with the Tuon/Egwene showdown.  I felt like we had been building to this moment where Tuon has to face that she can channel and that all sul'dam can too, and her response just seemed like it wasn't a shock to her at all.  Part of me thinks that Tuon is just stubborn enough to carry on as normal with collaring channelers.  I'm not sure if her conversation with Artur Hawking had any additional impact on her.  I do think it was a foolish move on Tuon's part to ok Egwene's suggestions about letting Seachan and Aes Sedai convince each other that their way of life is better. Having said that, a lot of the Seanchan-born damane seemed very happy with their lot and horrifed at the idea of being released, so it might take a generation of female channelers for any damane to actually want to be released.  Would have been very helpful to have a Tuon POV reflecting on her thoughts with regards to this.

I agree, I had been really looking forward to this showdown. I couldn't wait for Egwene to shoot down in flames (not literally) the arrogance of the Seanchan and drop the bombshell that the Sul'dam could channel too. The response was NOT what I had been looking forward to! I was expecting huge big ructions that the Empress herself could channel, but this was just tossed aside casually. I thought it might be the start of an albeit rocky road to an alliance between the two sides, but it seems they are more entrenched than ever.

It really would have been a great opportunity to have a Tuon POV and let us know just how much of a shock it was...

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I think I'm one of the few people who was disappointed with the Tuon/Egwene showdown.  I felt like we had been building to this moment where Tuon has to face that she can channel and that all sul'dam can too, and her response just seemed like it wasn't a shock to her at all.  Part of me thinks that Tuon is just stubborn enough to carry on as normal with collaring channelers.  I'm not sure if her conversation with Artur Hawking had any additional impact on her.  I do think it was a foolish move on Tuon's part to ok Egwene's suggestions about letting Seachan and Aes Sedai convince each other that their way of life is better. Having said that, a lot of the Seanchan-born damane seemed very happy with their lot and horrifed at the idea of being released, so it might take a generation of female channelers for any damane to actually want to be released.  Would have been very helpful to have a Tuon POV reflecting on her thoughts with regards to this.

I agree, I had been really looking forward to this showdown. I couldn't wait for Egwene to shoot down in flames (not literally) the arrogance of the Seanchan and drop the bombshell that the Sul'dam could channel too. The response was NOT what I had been looking forward to! I was expecting huge big ructions that the Empress herself could channel, but this was just tossed aside casually. I thought it might be the start of an albeit rocky road to an alliance between the two sides, but it seems they are more entrenched than ever.

It really would have been a great opportunity to have a Tuon POV and let us know just how much of a shock it was...

 

It was not a shock for Tuon because she knew that the Suldam's could potentially channel already. And she responded the same way she did to Mat earlier

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Having said that, a lot of the Seanchan-born damane seemed very happy

with their lot and horrifed at the idea of being released, so it might

take a generation of female channelers for any damane to actually want

to be released.

 

The problem is that damane's spirits are broken, they are brainwashed so once trained very, very few would want to leave. You have a few like Alivia who dream of freedom but most have been broken until they are happy where they are. Look at our real world, there are cases where people have been kidnapped and after a while even if they are sent out alone to do shopping for their captors and have every chance to escape they stay with the people that hurt them. Now if the practices in Seanchan continue there will never be a new generation of channeler who want to be let go, for they will be caught and collared and brainwashed to each new generation will be as broken as the next.

 

Actually I think the key to damane's freedom is not Tuon, but their men. When saidin is clean and everyone know that it is Seanchan can not very well continue killing every man who can channel, and what do you do with them then, either you send them to the Black Tower for training or you just have them around your society and some of them will survive the channeling sickness and what then, eventually people will start to protest to their daughters and sisters and wives being taken away while the men run around and do exactly the same and then there will be social reforms, when the people demand it. I do not think what one Empress say or do not say will matter that much for if she get to outspoken or reveal that she can channel, she can always be removed from her throne.

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They have copies of the bracelet used to control men..with some tweaking to it they could collar men too potentially.

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Perhaps but the question is if they could make them in sufficient qualities, plus you have the part with having to cycle through allot of sul'dam if they where going to do it since men eventually start taking control over those who is wearing the bracelets, with saidin clean that mean that the madness problem with the male a'dam will be a non issue, but production and the control problem will.

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Perhaps but the question is if they could make them in sufficient qualities, plus you have the part with having to cycle through allot of sul'dam if they where going to do it since men eventually start taking control over those who is wearing the bracelets, with saidin clean that mean that the madness problem with the male a'dam will be a non issue, but production and the control problem will.

 

 That is the first time I have heard that collared men will "start taking control over those who is wearing the bracelets".

 

 Anything to back that up?

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Perhaps but the question is if they could make them in sufficient qualities, plus you have the part with having to cycle through allot of sul'dam if they where going to do it since men eventually start taking control over those who is wearing the bracelets, with saidin clean that mean that the madness problem with the male a'dam will be a non issue, but production and the control problem will.

 

 That is the first time I have heard that collared men will "start taking control over those who is wearing the bracelets".

 

 Anything to back that up?

 

Moghedien tells Nyneave that while they fight in tSR.

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Off course Moggy could be lying but all we know about the male a'dam say that it have that flaw, that the man will begin to take control, so unless she was lying then using those artifacts to make male damane might be a bit difficult.

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Off course Moggy could be lying but all we know about the male a'dam say that it have that flaw, that the man will begin to take control, so unless she was lying then using those artifacts to make male damane might be a bit difficult.

 

That is why they need to tweak it a bit to make it behave like the adam. They have the blueprint.

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Off course Moggy could be lying but all we know about the male a'dam say that it have that flaw, that the man will begin to take control, so unless she was lying then using those artifacts to make male damane might be a bit difficult.

That is why they need to tweak it a bit to make it behave like the adam. They have the blueprint.

RJ was clear that they don't know how invent/tweak and only know how to copy the female a'dam.

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Good point I guess, I was thinking since there is no longer any need to do that they will not and also they might not want to piss of the Black Tower by doing so, but you are right, they might just kill them or banish all of them to the mainland so the rest of the population will not have contact with them and as such get them out of eye and out of mind.

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Off course Moggy could be lying but all we know about the male a'dam say that it have that flaw, that the man will begin to take control, so unless she was lying then using those artifacts to make male damane might be a bit difficult.

That is why they need to tweak it a bit to make it behave like the adam. They have the blueprint.

RJ was clear that they don't know how invent/tweak and only know how to copy the female a'dam.

 

They may learn in future.They already know to copy the male adam along with the female one.After all in Avi's view of the future the Seachan were the ones with the mordern technology.That would indicate a certain level of invention and enterprise.

Edited by XXX47

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It was not a shock for Tuon because she knew that the Suldam's could

potentially channel already. And she responded the same way she did to

Mat earlier

I had forgotten this.  Even so, the brief comment that people who have the potential to be murderers aren't murderers didn't seem like a satisfying resolution of this plot.  Again, I think it is the lack of a Tuon POV.  This is something that could shake the foundations of their society and its just dismissed.  As a fan, this was one of the scenes I had really been hoping to read about, or maybe one of the other sul'dam learning about channeling, and nothing much came of it.

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Off course Moggy could be lying but all we know about the male a'dam say that it have that flaw, that the man will begin to take control, so unless she was lying then using those artifacts to make male damane might be a bit difficult.

That is why they need to tweak it a bit to make it behave like the adam. They have the blueprint.
RJ was clear that they don't know how invent/tweak and only know how to copy the female a'dam.
 

They may learn in future.They already know to copy the male adam along with the female one.

Wasn't it a forsaken that had the copies made?

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When Semi was impersonating the truthspeaker. The Seachen knew that the male adam was in their hands and they now have multiple copies.It would stretch imagination that they never bothered to learn how to make one when Semi was handing the copies around.

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When Semi was impersonating the truthspeaker. The Seachen knew that the male adam was in their hands and they now have multiple copies.It would stretch imagination that they never bothered to learn how to make one when Semi was handing the copies around.

Why would anyone outside of that immediate circle involved in that trap have known about the bands. It's not like she was announcing her plans, in fact we know she was undercover and none of the bands made it back after that. For all we know she had them made elsewhere.

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