The Androl Thread

[Luckers]

Q: Is there a character you took in a different direction from what Jordan had intended?

 

A: In terms of a character, and what would happen to them ultimately, no, not really. However, there were times when some things had to be adjusted, specifically some plot points, in order to make the narrative as a whole flow better. Brandon did mention that he wanted a character that he felt like was his own, which he got to do the most development on. That character became Androl. A lot of what Androl did were things which RJ said had to happen. Brandon picked Androl to do them, and gave the character his own touch more than any other.

 

Discuss Brandon's Everyman.

[Barid Bel Medar]

I for one thought that Androl and Pevara turned out to be one of the better parts in the book when the Black Tower plot finally got rolling (when they assaulted the Turning chambers).

 

It could come off as Brandon imprinting his own thing there, and I understand if that may put people off, but for me - no matter what reason - it turned out to be one of the most interesting arcs in aMoL. 

[Duskfire]

I thought he was a cool character, until he started talking about how he has done this and that in the past, and then started doing all kinds of crazy stuff with the Power. Going by his stories, he was essentially a new Jain Farstrider who could channel.

 

It would have been much better if he was just a weak channeler who was a good leader, a symbol so to speak to the Whitetower about how strength shouldnt determine leadership and respect. Him at the Blacktower was fine, and trying to help others escape, etc etc.

 

Narishma should have been the one doing all kinds of crazy stuff once the battle started. Why introduce another channeler and leave one who had been foreshadowed to be at least partially important be the exact opposite?

[Mr. Micawber]

You mean Brandrol the Incredible Marty Stu? That guy can die in a fire

[John Everyman]

I liked him.  Yeah, I definitely got the impression that Androl was "Brandon's" character, but I found that he was my favorite Asha'man, behind Logain.  Of course, not many of the Asha'man were developed, so Brandon got to really seize upon this opportunity.  I'm glad he did, since the Black Tower was lacking in presence in the story up to that point.

 

 

 

 

You mean Brandrol the Incredible Marty Stu? That guy can die in a fire

 

I really feel like people don't understand the literary meaning of "Mary Sue".  Sometime his Talent did prove more useful than it probably should have, but he's no more a Sue than some other characters.

[Duskfire]

I guess I just didnt like how he stole the spotlight and as a result a bunch of other Asha`man failed to do basically anything. Like Narishma, Flinn, Karldin, even Naeff. Naeff was sent to the Blacktower by Rand to investigate and did... what? Worked out that it was probably bad and then left?

[John Everyman]

Personally, I agree Androl did a bit too much in the latter half of the book, but reading of his bond with Pevara was fun, so it doesn't bother my too much.  Of all the other Asha'man, I only really felt Flinn had anything resembling an interesting personality.  Can't stand Narishma, personally.

[Dakota]

I thought he was a cool character, until he started talking about how he has done this and that in the past, and then started doing all kinds of crazy stuff with the Power. Going by his stories, he was essentially a new Jain Farstrider who could channel.

This. A character who was weak in the power but had a special talent that could make up for it? Yeah, I can buy that. But towards the end when all this 'mysterious backstory' kept getting piled on him, he definately started seeming a bit less everyman and a bit more Gary Sue.

[Luckers]

To be frank I was initially thrown by the INCREDIBLY creepy duel mental rape scene that was shown as some sort of funny shenanigan.

 

That actually tinted most of what followed, though ultimately I ended up liking the Androl/Pevara romance.

 

The other issues were that of course Pevara was neither Pevara, nor awesome. She was a new personality and one that did nothing but watch.

 

The other thing that wierded me out was that Androl was Elayna Sedai, the Aes Sedai in the Legends Wheel of Time Game who could barely channel but could arm herself with ter'angreal. Insert 'arm himself with the manipulative use if Gateways' and you're on board.

[Mr. Micawber]

I liked him. Yeah, I definitely got the impression that Androl was "Brandon's" character, but I found that he was my favorite Asha'man, behind Logain. Of course, not many of the Asha'man were developed, so Brandon got to really seize upon this opportunity. I'm glad he did, since the Black Tower was lacking in presence in the story up to that point.

 

 

 

 

 

You mean Brandrol the Incredible Marty Stu? That guy can die in a fire

 

I really feel like people don't understand the literary meaning of "Mary Sue". Sometime his Talent did prove more useful than it probably should have, but he's no more a Sue than some other characters.

Oh for the love of-

 

*Can you seriously not see why that is not an indictment?*

 

Yea, I never realized that Brandrol is but one of many Sues. I know bloody well what a Sue is. This character cemented the transition from Sanderson assisting Jordan to Sanderson writing what is virtually the definition of fan fiction

[messiestobjects]

 Androl is a perfect symbol of what is both good and awful about Brandon Sanderson. I didn't know that he was BS's creation, but it makes perfect sense. The one thing that BS excelled at in his stewardship was moving the pace up, and gettin' shit done. Androl was an interesting character with a fun story, and I looked forward to his viewpoints. The backside of that is that is seems apparent that the reason Androl was a good character is because BS had absolutely no friggen idea how to write the RJ established main characters. None of the Two Rivers gang felt nearly as 3 dimensional as Androl did, and he was symptomatic of why some fans are let down with the last three books. Brandon "Draghkar" Sanderson sucked the life out of the series in order to allow the empty shell to run to Shayol Gul with out any of the pesky internal dialogue or show-don't-tell characterization getting in the way.

 

 I'm grateful that BS finished the series and that I finally have the answers, but it was always bound to be a thankless task. It's sad to think that getting a ghost writer may have been the better way to go, in the end.

[messiestobjects]

doublepost

[Azrayne]

Wow, a lotta hate for Androl. Yeah his backstory is a little over the top when he has an anecdote for every situation, but not everyone sits down in a single place and works the same job for their whole life. While BS took the concept a little far, it wasn't too unbelievable, and everyone I've spoken to says that Androl was one of the better parts of the series. Anyone claiming he's a Sue in a series full of characters who are the most powerful special unique at everything they do, full of powers and abilties nobody else has, ever, constantly discovering and doing stuff that people with twice their knowledge and experience can't manage, has a rather warped perspective.

[David Selig]

 

Wow, a lotta hate for Androl. Yeah his backstory is a little over the top when he has an anecdote for every situation, but not everyone sits down in a single place and works the same job for their whole life. While BS took the concept a little far, it wasn't too unbelievable, and everyone I've spoken to says that Androl was one of the better parts of the series. Anyone claiming he's a Sue in a series full of characters who are the most powerful special unique at everything they do, full of powers and abilties nobody else has, ever, constantly discovering and doing stuff that people with twice their knowledge and experience can't manage, has a rather warped perspective.

Exactly. Especially the part in bold.

[MarkDiLillo]

The only issue I have with Androl is that his scenes seemed to take over too much of the book.  In a way, he became a major character out of nowhere that almost dominated the book.  He was featured so prevalently, and was also so different than other WoT characters, that he kind of squashed a lot of the "WoT feel" from the book for me.  It felt like Brandon thought that with his character he had a free pass to write him how he wanted and do what he wanted with him so he let him hijack the story and we had major parts that felt very un-WoT-like.

 

That's about my only serious complaint with him, otherwise I felt like his role in the BT was great.  I really liked the idea of the weakest guy around becoming the leader in their time of need.  Not a fan of his usage of gateways really, but that is a minor complaint really in the grand scheme of things.

[Mr. Micawber]

The only issue I have with Androl is that his scenes seemed to take over too much of the book.  In a way, he became a major character out of nowhere that almost dominated the book.  He was featured so prevalently, and was also so different than other WoT characters, that he kind of squashed a lot of the "WoT feel" from the book for me.  It felt like Brandon thought that with his character he had a free pass to write him how he wanted and do what he wanted with him so he let him hijack the story and we had major parts that felt very un-WoT-like.

 

That's about my only serious complaint with him, otherwise I felt like his role in the BT was great.  I really liked the idea of the weakest guy around becoming the leader in their time of need.  Not a fan of his usage of gateways really, but that is a minor complaint really in the grand scheme of things.

 

Mark, his "use of gateways" was his entire deal. This is fan fiction type shit

[John Everyman]

 

I liked him. Yeah, I definitely got the impression that Androl was "Brandon's" character, but I found that he was my favorite Asha'man, behind Logain. Of course, not many of the Asha'man were developed, so Brandon got to really seize upon this opportunity. I'm glad he did, since the Black Tower was lacking in presence in the story up to that point.

 

 

 

 

You mean Brandrol the Incredible Marty Stu? That guy can die in a fire

I really feel like people don't understand the literary meaning of "Mary Sue". Sometime his Talent did prove more useful than it probably should have, but he's no more a Sue than some other characters.

Oh for the love of-

 

*Can you seriously not see why that is not an indictment?*

 

Yea, I never realized that Brandrol is but one of many Sues. I know bloody well what a Sue is. This character cemented the transition from Sanderson assisting Jordan to Sanderson writing what is virtually the definition of fan fiction

 

There is a huge difference between a full blown Mary Sue character and a character that has a schtick and an arguably larger presence than he should have.  Too many people use the term as a placeholder for "character that annoys me". 

 

I don't exactly love Androl, but to be frank, he only highlights how little development all of the other Asha'man have received.  Even the somewhat more established ones, such as Flinn, come off as strawmen.  I'm much happier that the Black Tower events in AMOl, which were going to happen anyway, were performed by a character with some semblance of personality. 

 

And frankly, I don't see how exploiting a Talent, a Talent that involves a pre-established part of WOT lore, in any way stretches credibility. 

[MarkDiLillo]

 

The only issue I have with Androl is that his scenes seemed to take over too much of the book.  In a way, he became a major character out of nowhere that almost dominated the book.  He was featured so prevalently, and was also so different than other WoT characters, that he kind of squashed a lot of the "WoT feel" from the book for me.  It felt like Brandon thought that with his character he had a free pass to write him how he wanted and do what he wanted with him so he let him hijack the story and we had major parts that felt very un-WoT-like.

 

That's about my only serious complaint with him, otherwise I felt like his role in the BT was great.  I really liked the idea of the weakest guy around becoming the leader in their time of need.  Not a fan of his usage of gateways really, but that is a minor complaint really in the grand scheme of things.

Mark, his "use of gateways" was his entire deal. This is fan fiction type shit

 

ya im aware and i hated it, but i think there are many other failures that are much more serious.  the use of gateways annoyed the hell out of me, but at the end of the day if other things had been done right I could buy it and just chalk it down to a new author taking over and getting a little creative.  i actually liked the whole part about using gateways to see the field of battle - i thought that was great.  Androl cutting leather with mini gateways, and teleporting cannon shots/lava around the battlefield became too much though.

 

With gateways, it felt like Brandon violated the spirit of the law while following it to the letter.  Usage of gateways in the last book didn't violate or contradict anything we read about gateways in the first 11 books, but it still felt like it went a little bit too far for the WoT world.

[Mr. Micawber]

I liked him. Yeah, I definitely got the impression that Androl was "Brandon's" character, but I found that he was my favorite Asha'man, behind Logain. Of course, not many of the Asha'man were developed, so Brandon got to really seize upon this opportunity. I'm glad he did, since the Black Tower was lacking in presence in the story up to that point.

 

 

You mean Brandrol the Incredible Marty Stu? That guy can die in a fire

 

I really feel like people don't understand the literary meaning of "Mary Sue". Sometime his Talent did prove more useful than it probably should have, but he's no more a Sue than some other characters.

 

Oh for the love of-

*Can you seriously not see why that is not an indictment?*

Yea, I never realized that Brandrol is but one of many Sues. I know bloody well what a Sue is. This character cemented the transition from Sanderson assisting Jordan to Sanderson writing what is virtually the definition of fan fiction

 

There is a huge difference between a full blown Mary Sue character and a character that has a schtick and an arguably larger presence than he should have.  Too many people use the term as a placeholder for "character that annoys me". 

 

I don't exactly love Androl, but to be frank, he only highlights how little development all of the other Asha'man have received.  Even the somewhat more established ones, such as Flinn, come off as strawmen.  I'm much happier that the Black Tower events in AMOl, which were going to happen anyway, were performed by a character with some semblance of personality. 

 

And frankly, I don't see how exploiting a Talent, a Talent that involves a pre-established part of WOT lore, in any way stretches credibility. 

 

Oh come the hell on. His schtick was responsible for like five different huges victories, got him out of impossible situations, and as others mentioned, he's got more travel stories than Farstrider.

[druidravi]

The uses of  the gateways  feels so much like portal game . Redirecting bullets/balefire with portals/gateways .

[Crowl Rife]

I liked the Androl arc a lot.  It's one of those storylines people can relate to, where someone who doesn't seem all that powerful or important is the one who saves the day.

 

The shared bond or whatever was a bit weird, but new things are discovered every book so I accepted it.  The new uses of gateways I loved.  Sanderson did admit that was all him as well.  The Portal game is a coincidence, he said in the same interview about Androl that he hadn't played Portal at the time.

[Miss Kasha]

I enjoyed the addition of Androl to the book. As much as this was Jordan's series, I think it was a good move for Sanderson to use a character that he could develop himself. It gave him somebody that he could work with, and none of the fans would complain that he wasn't true to his character. And putting that aside, I liked the Androl scenes. He was a refreshing character for me, not full of himself or filled with power. And you got to see more of the inner workings of the Black Tower through him, which was nice.

[Aver]

He kind of reminded me of Sleete. We got this big back story on Sleete and then Sleete was almost completely off screen in aMoL. Why not just develop one of the existing warders instead. It wasn't that Sleete was a bad character on paper but we get this huge back story on Sleete out of nowhere when it just wasn't necessary.  Androl  was in the knocks rebellion, apprenticed to a wise woman, jumping off cliffs with Seafolk, his dad committed suicide because he was a channeller. It felt like to much back story in the last few books. I thought that Androl was one of the better written  characters and I enjoyed his psychic powers with Pevara. It really isn't that Androl is a bad character because he isn't one but I do think like others have said that he was used way too much. Androl felt like more of the leader to the BT than Logain did. It almost felt like Mr. Sanderson did not want to write about Logain and I think that Androl stole a lot of his spot light. 

 

Yeah sure I liked a lot of Androl's scenes and the use of gateways didn't bug me all that much. I think that if the gateways had been in a secondary role to Logain's channeling then I think they would have felt more in place. Like Logain shows up at Cairhien and begins torching hordes of Trollocs he looks over and sees Androl dropping lava from  gateways. That would have felt better to me. I suppose i'm just biased because there was a buildup of a rivalry between Logain and Taim in the BT, I wanted Logain to lead the fight. It looked like it was going to be Logain who was going to be the one to lead the fight at the BT as of KoD. It was Logains faction in the BT, and then the last three books happen and Logain is a used rug and Androl is the savior of the BT.

[lowtherone]

I got the feeling that androl was jain/noal's brother or at the very least knew him. I remember Androl thinking that Jain wouldn't believe this if he told him maybe half way through, with his various jobs n what not he could have been Noal's companion on his travels. I know he was BS's character but that could be where he fits in.

[Threepy]

I really enjoyed the creative use of gateways not only because it fit in with the evolution of warfare we saw with the introduction of the dragons but pretty much every creative way the gateways were used I had thought of in my idle musing of the One Power when reading the series. It was a joy to read of a magic system where the limitations weren't constrained by an uncreative author. Firing the dragons through gateways and using them as maps and to deflect weaves was fantastic though making tea using it felt a little out of place. A minor complaint only. 

 

Having said that, Androl as a character became quite tiring. The early revelations of his life were quite intriguing but it eventually became a bit too much and this stung all the more when I realised how little attention Logain was getting. Certainly I would have liked a bit of the effort (and time) that went into Androl to be directed towards Logain, a characters I think had a vast amount of unused potential and ended up a bit of a letdown. To be honest i'd have liked a little less Androl in the book and the Black Tower story (something I was really looking forward to) was a huge letdown. For sure the early Black Tower scenes felt a bit more Harry Potter than Wheel of Time and once we got to the Last Battle i'd have liked to have seen Logain or some of the already developed Asha'man get some focus. 

 

I wasn't a huge fan of the theft of the Seals either (or the handling of Taim in general,whom I also felt had a huge amount of unused potential) though Androl getting double Mask of Mirrored into himself gave me a slight chuckle. Pevara didn't really feel like Pevara though I liked her as a character and the relationship with Androl showed the potential for the development of the Red Ajah / White tower and the Asha'man.