something from quite far back in the series... but still...

[Slothman]

I was going through my audiobooks of the series instead of doing a fifth re-read and spotted something that I had never noticed before,

 

when Egwene is being tested to be an accepted she sees herself in the mirror with an ageless face. Now i understand that it is a different world, but all of the rules (as far as we've seen) seem to be the same, it's just the situation that changes.

 

She later on in the passage tells her keeper of the chronicles that she never swore the 3 oaths...

 

I could have sworn that it was the oath rod that gave the ageless face and that it was just delayed ageing that channeling saidar gave women.

 

anyone able to shed any light?

 

 

on a side note, i paid extra attention to who killed asmodean this time, hoping that it would be a little more clear as i wasn't directly reading the page, and considering RJ sai'd it'd be obvious even to the most casual observer... i'm stumped!

 

damn you RJ! I'm Very glad you're getting better but damn you all the same :P

[rd2000]

Channelling on a regular basis gives the ageless look if I recall.

[Guest Majsju]

Yes, it's the oath rod that causes the ageless look, so RJ probably just made a mistake.

 

Though it could have something to do with what Egwene sees does have something to do with her experience, and at this point she does not know about the relation between the oath rod and the ageless face.

[SinisterDeath]

She could have been using a mask of mirrors to appear as though she was ageless to fool any aes sedia allowing her to have an upper hand on all other aes sedia, while making black ajah hunting all that much easier... or of course it could lead to a much.. darker line of thought, as Egewne did state she intends for all 'aes sedia' who haven't taken the oaths to continue to, even if it shortens there life span. Its what sperates them from 'wilders'.

[SBoydW]

Yes, it's the oath rod that causes the ageless look

 

Don't the Kin have ageless faces to though. And Nynave is also described as having the "ageless face". If that is so then it couldn't have been the oath rod because none of them have used it. It would have to be the continued used of the power.

[Guest Majsju]

Yes' date=' it's the oath rod that causes the ageless look[/quote']

 

Don't the Kin have ageless faces to though. And Nynave is also described as having the "ageless face". If that is so then it couldn't have been the oath rod because none of them have used it. It would have to be the continued used of the power.

 

Nope, the Kin, and to a lesser extent Nynaeve have Slowed. Which means they appear younger than they actually are. But it is not the same thing as agelessness. Go back to Nynaeves and Elaynes first meeting with the Kin, it's on their way back from there we see them pondering this, including Nynaeves frustration when she realizes that slowing will make people take her less seriously.

[Meliane]

I'm confused about the passage to which you are referring. While she's being raised Accepted, everyone who is Aes Sedai would know that she had never held the oath rod because she hadn't yet been raised Aes Sedai.

 

What book and what passage are you talking about? I don't remember a time when Egwene walks by a mirror and sees herself with an ageless face, but if it is while she's in the ter'angreal, anything can happen in there. Maybe she saw a glimmer of the future; she also sees herself as Amyrlin in that ter'angreal, I believe.

 

To answer your question (even though it's confusing), the oath rod is what gives you the ageless look. That is why the Wise Ones, Sea Folk, Forsaken, Kin, Seanchan damane, etc. do not have the ageless look. And once you are severed/stilled, the ageless look goes away (think Siuan and Leane).

 

Another thing to keep in mind is that it takes a while for the ageless look to come into effect. It does not happen immediately on taking the three oaths. Which is why new Aes Sedai are not noticably Aes Sedai (think some of the ones who kidnapped Rand).

 

The oath rod also greatly shortens your life span.

[SBoydW]

Nope, the Kin, and to a lesser extent Nynaeve have Slowed. Which means they appear younger than they actually are. But it is not the same thing as agelessness. Go back to Nynaeves and Elaynes first meeting with the Kin, it's on their way back from there we see them pondering this, including Nynaeves frustration when she realizes that slowing will make people take her less seriously.

 

Ahh.... Thanks for clearing that up for me. :)

[Thor]

This is also why some of the Forsaken resented being bound. The agelesness look immediately marks people out as criminals.

[Guest Wynne Jessal]

The FAQ 2.3.03 explains.

 

Egwene's Accepted Test: In one of Egwene's three experiences in the ter'angreal used in the test to be raised Accepted, she is the Amyrlin Seat. She looks in a mirror, and sees that she has the Ageless Look <TDR>. A few pages later, she says that she has not sworn on the Oath Rod. If she never held the OR, then why does she look Ageless? Richard Boyé explains this nicely: "The reason is that the ter'angreal weaves illusions and testings from what the subject knows, expects, and fears. How else would it know that Nynaeve wants to marry Lan or that her mother's name was Elnore? Egwene saw herself with the Ageless look because from her knowledge and point of view, she was supposed to." Note that in that same vision, Egwene's Keeper, Beldeine, was stilled, but she still had the Ageless Look. In the real world, we know that stilling removes the Look. However, at that point in time, Egwene didn't know that.

[Thor]

But shouldn't her dream ter'angreal have made it more realistic and not based on what she knew?

[Mik]

But shouldn't her dream ter'angreal have made it more realistic and not based on what she knew?

I think what it boils down to' date=' is that THIS way, it actually was [i']more[/i] realistic to Egster, because it showed her what she believed should be the way it looked.

 

Example;

Say you're convinced a blade-master wears/wields a frog-marked blade (instead of a heron). For you to believe the man in your ter'angreal-trip to be a true blade-master, he has to wear a frog-marked blade since a heron-mark would mean a lot less -or even nothing- to you.

 

Realism in this case, is all in the eye of the beholder. The more it fits with your beliefs/knowledge, the more real it gets to you. Also makes it a lot harder to 'be steadfast'.

 

Something like that.

[Gentled Ben]

But shouldn't her dream ter'angreal have made it more realistic and not based on what she knew?

 

Thor, I think you might be confusing ter'angreals. There are certainly some made for dreaming, for entering TAR, but Egwene doesn't need one. There were a couple of chapters devoted partly to some training she received from the Aiel Wise Ones...

 

The ter'angreal she was using when she had these visions was not hers; it belongs to the Tower. It's a huge thing made of three arches, it takes several Aes Sedai to operate it, and it's not a dream ter'angreal so much as it's a testing device, being apparently quite similar to the ter'angreal that Wise One aspirants use in Rhuidean.

 

And to answer your question; how much more realistic does it need to be? It's difficult for her to return from it as it is, and some Accepted never return at all. :shock:

[Thor]

No, you are the one confused.

 

Because of her dream ter'angreal, there was some resonance effect with the gate ter'angreal. What she saw in the test were possible realities, only instead of fake ones which is normally experienced, they are the real future due to her dream ter'angreal.

[Gentled Ben]

They can't be realities, Thor, as Beldeine, her Keeper in these dreams, has been stilled, and because of her stilling, she helps Elaida and the other members of the Black Ajah capture Egwene with the promise that if she helps, they will have the DO restore her ability to channel. We know, and Beldeine knows too, that stilling can be Healed, as she was among those of Elaida's embassy who took Rand. Her sisters have been Healed from their stilling, and she's seen it, so there's no way that this scene would actually play out like that (not to mention that from POVs, both hers and Alviarin's, we can reasonably surmise that Elaida is not Black Ajah). They are not realities.

 

Also, in that same dream sequence, she is to pronounce sentence of gentling on Rand, who is guilty of the crime of being a male channeler. That made sense when that chapter was written, but not anymore. It comes out of Egwene's imagination, not the ter'angreal that she wore around her neck, but thank you for reminding me about that and straightening me out. I had forgotten that part. :oops:

[Master of the Blades]

Here is another example of why it cannot be the oath rod that causes the ageless look. The Aiel Wise ones vary in the Aging process. Sorilea is described as an old hag while Amys has that ageless look about her despite having white hair. the ageless look comes from using the Power. The more often the Power is used the more the ageing porcess is slowed. the same applies to the Kin. Those who channel frequently tend to age more slowly than those who do not.

 

the only thing we are sure of is that the Oath rod shortens the life of channellers. both the Kin and the Wise Ones live longer than Aes Sedai

[Guest Wynne Jessal]

No' date=' you are the one confused.

 

Because of her dream ter'angreal, there was some resonance effect with the gate ter'angreal. What she saw in the test were possible realities, only instead of fake ones which is normally experienced, they are the real future due to her dream ter'angreal.[/quote']

 

The real future?? :shock: Where did that theory come from? Well, as someone else already pointed out, that's not possible. But that really threw me for a loop coming out of left field like that (not to mix metaphors)...

[RobertAlexWillis]

Sorilea is described as an old hag while Amys has that ageless look about her despite having white hair. the ageless look comes from using the Power.

 

Amys does not have the "ageless" look. She looks young, with very white hair.

 

And the Kin do not channel frequently, it is against their Rule to do so. Yet they live for hundreds of years, and remain young-looking.

 

Slowing is not a function of how much Power is used. Morgase has slowed, and yet she can barely channel at all, and had not done so for years before the incident in Malden.

 

The "ageless" look is a result of the "tightness" that is described when oaths are administered and released by the Oath Rod. The "ageless" look is directly related to the Three Oaths.

 

Egwene, Nynaeve, and Elayne have probably used more of the Power than any Aes Sedai in centuries, but they don't even have the beginnings of the "ageless" look. None of the Forsaken have the "ageless" look, yet they used the Power at a high level for centuries in their time. The "ageless" look is unrelated to use of the Power.

[RobertAlexWillis]

Oh yeah, and this too:

 

No, you are the one confused.

 

Because of her dream ter'angreal, there was some resonance effect with the gate ter'angreal. What she saw in the test were possible realities, only instead of fake ones which is normally experienced, they are the real future due to her dream ter'angreal.

 

Considering that one of those "real futures" was one in which she married Rand and had a baby named Joiya, having never left the Two Rivers, I think YOU are confused.

[Master of the Blades]

Robert the Oath Road cannot account for the ageless look. the Oath rod holds Aes Sedai to their oaths and shorten their normal life span.

 

If the Oath rod did account for the ageless look Moiraine and Siuan would begin that process in New Spring we know they did not. there are numerous citations in the book of newly raised sisters not having acquired the ageless look. Beldeine, and Sarene if memory serves me will. Coladara who was sent to Caemlyn to watch over Morgase.

 

Morgase never took the oaths and Can hardly channel that would explain her natural ageing process.

 

But the icing on the cake comes in TGH. Chapter 28.

A new Thread in the Pattern.

 

Verin, Mat, Perrin and Ingtar meet Urien an Aiel.

 

he greets Verin by saying: " Wise One my water is yours."

 

Verin questions him about why he thinks she is an Aiel Wise One to which he responds: " you have the look of those who have gone to Rhuidean. They do not age the same way men do."

 

Clearly the Wise Ones who can channel do not age at the same rate as the Wise Ones who cannot. Amys is Rhuarc's husband she logically she msut be about the same age. Yet she has a youthful face despite White hair.

 

That should dispell any thought that the Oath Rod has an effect on the ageing process except to shorten the life span of Aes Sedai.

[Guest Wynne Jessal]

Robert the Oath Road cannot account for the ageless look. the Oath rod holds Aes Sedai to their oaths and shorten their normal life span.

 

If the Oath rod did account for the ageless look Moiraine and Siuan would begin that process in New Spring we know they did not. there are numerous citations in the book of newly raised sisters not having acquired the ageless look. Beldeine' date=' and Sarene if memory serves me will. Coladara who was sent to Caemlyn to watch over Morgase.

 

Morgase never took the oaths and Can hardly channel that would explain her natural ageing process.

 

But the icing on the cake comes in TGH. Chapter 28.

A new Thread in the Pattern.

 

Verin, Mat, Perrin and Ingtar meet Urien an Aiel.

 

he greets Verin by saying: " Wise One my water is yours."

 

Verin questions him about why he thinks she is an Aiel Wise One to which he responds: " you have the look of those who have gone to Rhuidean. They do not age the same way men do."

 

Clearly the Wise Ones who can channel do not age at the same rate as the Wise Ones who cannot. Amys is Rhuarc's husband she logically she msut be about the same age. Yet she has a youthful face despite White hair.

 

That should dispell any thought that the Oath Rod has an effect on the ageing process except to shorten the life span of Aes Sedai.[/quote']

 

Sorry, you're mistaken. The Oath Rod does cause the Ageless look. However, it takes a few years to manifest, up to 5 or so. The affect would be similar to a permanent face lift (as it's been described by others), so should be more noticeable even as the AS becomes older and gets gray/white hair.

 

We know none of the Forsaken, Seanchan channelers, or Windfinders have anything like the ageless look. They have all been easily "aged" by the POV of whoever meets them. Only fully raised AS from the White Tower. Natural conclusion is the tightening of the Oaths on the Oath Rod settling into the skin--but again, it's not immediately visible.

 

There has been some contradiction in the story about whether Wise One channelers have the same ageless look as AS. Most of the quotes indicate that they have something somewhat similar to it, but not exact. Egwene is able to put an age to Melaine, for example, and then there is the quote that you gave. That quote may simply refer to slowing, too. Any channeler will age slower, so that may be what the Aiel are referring to.

[DemandredFO]

First, I saw on some thread but don't remember where, but the ageless face and halving of lifespan ARE functions of the oath Rod. It was used to bind criminals who could channel, the ageless look made them easily recognizable as such and the halving was a punishment.

I agree with Thor in so far as this, the testing ter'angreal MUST show possible future events, along with fears, etc. Sharina was Nyneave and Lan's advisor and Sharina appears in tPoD, I believe. In Egwene's test she becomes amyrlin without taking the three oaths and in LOC she becomes amyrlin without taking the three oaths. I forget if there are anymore like that. I do know that some of the stuff in the ter'angreal is garbage but some are at least partially real.

[SinisterDeath]

They are 'possible futures' some more true then others. Its like Rand & company inavertanly 'slow travelling' for 3 months, where they lived a thousand lifetimes each more different then the last. Yet, all were very possible futures.

 

Speaking as such, what rand and company did, was technically 'time travel'. Into the future... Though, its hard to prove that there bodies did not age, though there minds were most definately active during it, much more active then would have happened in 3 months. But stil time travel non the less... :P

*And theres that possibility that they aren't actually in there orginal world, but thats very improbable. :P

[Guest Wynne Jessal]

*And theres that possibility that they aren't actually in there orginal world' date=' but thats very improbable. :P[/quote']

 

*brain implodes* That is a very deep thought for so late at night. :shock: I guess it's impossible to prove one way or another, and unimportant anyhow, but nice one. ;-) Maybe in the REAL real world they left behind, Taimandred exists. 8)

[Master of the Blades]

Using the Forsaken actually negated any argument you might make. In TEOTW. Meetings at the Eye, Aginor and Balthamel have both Aged three thoudand years since they were near the surface. As soon as they begin chanelling they begin to be restored to the bodies they had before the Bore was sealed. Semirhage, Lanfear, Grandael, Mesaana and Moghedien all are in the same physical condition they were before the sealing. Now its possble they were deep enough in the bore not to age. Consider this all of the Woman forsaken were contemporaries of LTT and the male Forsaken. that would make them midle aged at least Yet they have retained the beauty of their youth. Lanfear, Grandael and Semirhage are all described as the most beautiful of women. We can be sure that none of them were ever subjected to the Oath Rod. They were not used in that fashion in AOL.

The ritual of becomng Aes Sedai began with the advent of the White Tower.

 

How is it possible for women to be three thousand years old and retain their youthful looks?