Prologue Through to the End of the Epilogue--Full Book Discussion.

[Corwin]

ok, thanks

[dfchang]

 

just wondering what Slayer got up to?

I wonder if Slayer got separated again to Luc and Isam or just got killed and who did the deed. And did Lan ever met Isam or realize who he was.

Did Galad ever realize that Rand is his half-brother?

 

Slayer head was separated from his shoulder by Perrin's hammer.  Unsure if it knocked him into Luc and Isam first, unlikely.

 

Lan never met Isam nor did he realize who Isam was.

 

Galad knows Rand is his half brother but of course that meeting must be up to our imaginations. 

[JimboSlice]

How about the reunion with Moiraine? Is it shown on screen, or is that left to the imagination as well?

[dfchang]

How about the reunion with Moiraine? Is it shown on screen, or is that left to the imagination as well?

 

Moiraine has many reunions.  She crashes into the meeting at Merrilor with all the monarchs so Rand, Egwene, Perrin, Nynaeve, you name it it's there.

 

Moiraine and Lan reunion happen off-screen.

[dfchang]

there is a big difference between tying loose ends in the storyline and fulfillment of prophecy that tie in with the dragon reborn and the last battle

 

I have gone to the Encycopaedia and browsed through Min's viewings, Egwene's dreams, etc.  I don't pretend to be any expert like Terez or fionwe1987 but from my perusal, I don't really think anything was skipped.

 

Any specific prophecy, viewing, or dream that people here felt was unfulfilled? 

 

Min has a few visions in the book pertaining to Tuon that I assume involve her after the events of aMoL.

 

Some of the fulfillments didn't satisfy me very much or was as epic as I wanted to be but they were there . . .

[dfchang]

Does that include everyone - like Mat, Perrin (I heard on this post), Rhuarc and Debraine too? Its like the Waygates - so obvious that they needed to be sealed ASAP and still left open to lose Caemlin to Trollocs, they really should have protected their non-channeler generals dreams! Any of them survive (other than Mat and Perrin)?

 

The compulsion with the generals made me sick and SOOOO pissed off.  Great strategy by the Shadow of course but geezus the Light should have seen that coming a mile away.

 

Let's see:

 

1.  Rand.  Guards and wards Dreams constantly.  Lanfear appears to him in a dream he thought was shielded.  Should have known.

 

2.  Egwene.  She is a f''ing DREAMER.  Also KNEW first hand what Halima had been doing to her.  STILL doesn't think to protect the Great Captains.

 

3.  Amys, Melaine, ALL the Wise One Dreamers.  WTF?

 

4.  Perrin.  The Wolf Dream.  Then after SEEING Graendal at work, not killing her when he had the chance.  GROAN!!!!  Slap forehead.

 

Obviously this needed to happen so we can have Mat become the general of the entire forces of the Light.  His foxhead medallion makes him immune to any sort of manipulation or compulsion.  So from a story and plot perspective this is perfectly logical but still incredibly frustrating to see.

 

In any case, Bryne dies from Warder rage when Siuan gets killed trying to save Tuon and Mat with Min.  Bashere and his wife are killed by a Trolloc charge.  Ituralde is the only one who doesn't jack up his side because he resists as hard as he can and Elyas knocks him out.  He becomes king of Arad Doman.    We have no idea what happened to Agelmar.  Lan saves him from committing suicide but that's the last we see of him.  Shouldn't we at least get a bone what happened to him?

 

Same thing with Setalle Anan?   Vanin?  We never see them die on screen should we just assume they're dead or what?  

[Guest King Crimson]

I am actually curious how people would compare it to other books that ended a big sequence of books. Are there any Malazan readers here? If so, how would you compare the book to The Crippled God in terms of simply ending a massive fantasy series?

I really had to laugh (although quite bitter)

 

Even though I have loved WoT since early 2000, it's unfortunately quite inferior compared to an epic like The Crippled God. It has nothing of its sheer brilliance.

[Lord Melkor]

Another thing I am curious about - did most of Taim's followers fight in the Last Battle, or were they routed earlier when Logain retook BT from Taim?

 

Does Mazrim Taim have a POV in this book?

 

 

[dfchang]

Another thing I am curious about - did most of Taim's followers fight in the Last Battle, or were they routed earlier when Logain retook BT from Taim? Does Mazrim Taim have a POV in this book?

 

Most of Taim's followers did fight.  Logain retaking the Black Tower didn't knock off that many dreadlords.

 

Mazrim Taim has a couple of POVs in the book.

 

By the way, I would be hard put to it to name one single channeler with angreal or sa'angreal who could stand up to Androl in a one on one duel. 

[fionwe1987]

By the way, I would be hard put to it to name one single channeler with angreal or sa'angreal who could stand up to Androl in a one on one duel. 

Didn't Demandred do just that? 

[dfchang]

 

By the way, I would be hard put to it to name one single channeler with angreal or sa'angreal who could stand up to Androl in a one on one duel. 

Didn't Demandred do just that? 

 

LoL, I read it so fast I'm not sure.  Did Androl actually try to attack Demandred or was he doing something else?  I remember he was linked and Pevara got them out of there?

 

I only said what I said because the way he uses Gateways is so unique and innovative it just seems overpowered to me.   I've mentioned it before but since we're here let's go over it again.

 

Why can't Androl form a circle of 72 with an angreal and just open huge gateways to space to get rid of armies of Trollocs?  Why can't he go to Demandred and Gateway Balefire to hit Demandred in the back like he did at the Black Tower?

 

What if he opened up a Gateway to outer space and the vacuum just sucked Demandred in? 

 

Properly used why couldn't he just obliterate opposing channelers with sneak attacks before they can react?  Open a gateway at the neck and slice off the head. 

[kcf]

 

 

I am actually curious how people would compare it to other books that ended a big sequence of books. Are there any Malazan readers here? If so, how would you compare the book to The Crippled God in terms of simply ending a massive fantasy series?

I really had to laugh (although quite bitter)

 

Even though I have loved WoT since early 2000, it's unfortunately quite inferior compared to an epic like The Crippled God. It has nothing of its sheer brilliance.

I love Malazan and I love WOT. I loved WOT first. It has a huge nostalgia factor with me and I've re-read countless times (switched to audio re-'reads' about 4 years ago). On an emotional level, the level of a series that I've been reading for almost 20 years, AMOL and WOT end better. On a more 'rational' level, appreciating the shear brilliant audacity that is Malazan, it's ending is superior. But they are also very different series.

[mourn]

Oliver blows the horn.

[dfchang]

Oliver blows the horn.

 

Well, since that's out of the bag, I can add it is definitely one of the best scenes in the book for me.  Moving and beautiful and uplifting all at the same time.  

[dfchang]

Boy this thread is turning into the Pit of Doom for spoilers.  The way this is going there won't be a thing left unspoiled by this weekend . . .

[Callandora]

Thread title says full spoilers so its all appropiate

[Gavin Doyle]

Um... so, why does Olver blowing the horn do anything? Isn't Mat still alive... making the horn of valere... just a horn?

[dfchang]

Thread title says full spoilers so its all appropiate

 

Of course.  I just feel sorry for those poor desperate fools who can't resist and click that mouse button almost against their wills.  Their eyes will be seared from their skull!!!

[dfchang]

Um... so, why does Olver blowing the horn do anything? Isn't Mat still alive... making the horn of valere... just a horn?

 

Apparently his link to it was broken when he was killed by Rahvin in Fires of Heaven.  Olver blowing it was a moment of desperation by a little boy frightend out of his mind. 

[fionwe1987]

 

 

By the way, I would be hard put to it to name one single channeler with angreal or sa'angreal who could stand up to Androl in a one on one duel. 

Didn't Demandred do just that? 

 

LoL, I read it so fast I'm not sure.  Did Androl actually try to attack Demandred or was he doing something else?  I remember he was linked and Pevara got them out of there?

Its a Pevara PoV. Androl tries to use a Gateway cleverly against Demandred. Demandred simply cuts the weave. Then Pevara weaves a Gateway for them to escape.

 

I only said what I said because the way he uses Gateways is so unique and innovative it just seems overpowered to me.   I've mentioned it before but since we're here let's go over it again.

 

Why can't Androl form a circle of 72 with an angreal and just open huge gateways to space to get rid of armies of Trollocs?  Why can't he go to Demandred and Gateway Balefire to hit Demandred in the back like he did at the Black Tower?

All of these can be countered by Demandred. As for the circle, I remember there was an explanation. Just can't remember what or where.

What if he opened up a Gateway to outer space and the vacuum just sucked Demandred in? 

 

Properly used why couldn't he just obliterate opposing channelers with sneak attacks before they can react?  Open a gateway at the neck and slice off the head. 

How can a Gateway be a sneak attack? People will sense the weave and cut it off. Its as simple as that.

 

Its an enormously useful Talent. It isn't everything, though, nor does it guarantee success. 

[Kuston]

Well if Taim and 400 channelers are left crystalized, and theres a new patch over a new weakness in the pattern, as said earlier, theres  your next bore in a few thousand years.  When the dark one is forgotten again, and Taim and the others are found, people will wonder about it, and some may try to undo what was done to them.  Poof 400 dark channelers automatically in the world along with somsone who was already a lieutenant to the dark one anyway.  Closing out one *last battle* and already the cycle for the next to be set at the same time (atleast it would be a good way to start things goin that way again) is an intersting way to show that the wheel simply continues on even with the last book.

 

Could have made an interesting new set of books about rand land 10k years from amol and the dragon comming back again. 

 

But never will it be.

[Zefram]

Did Brigitte got her happy ending - reunion with Gaidal or getting back to cycle in Tel'aran'rhiod so she could be reincarnated with Gaidal again. (I guess it implies that she dies heroic death and since Gaidal is usually reborn 5-10 years earlier than her she has enough time to get reincarnated and be reunited in this age with him too).

BTW is Gaidal reincarnated or still in Tel'aran'rhiod if so he would Appear then when horn is sounded otherwise he is still a baby.

[fionwe1987]

Well if Taim and 400 channelers are left crystalized, and theres a new patch over a new weakness in the pattern, as said earlier, theres  your next bore in a few thousand years.  When the dark one is forgotten again, and Taim and the others are found, people will wonder about it, and some may try to undo what was done to them.  Poof 400 dark channelers automatically in the world along with somsone who was already a lieutenant to the dark one anyway.  Closing out one *last battle* and already the cycle for the next to be set at the same time (atleast it would be a good way to start things goin that way again) is an intersting way to show that the wheel simply continues on even with the last book.

 

Could have made an interesting new set of books about rand land 10k years from amol and the dragon comming back again. 

 

But never will it be.

I think its the new weakness in the Pattern, but I doubt those who were frozen would come back to life. For one thing, there was a huge earthquake in the region, sinking the entire thing down. For another, its implied that the only thing that would break the crystals is balefire. That would also likely kill whoever is inside.

[Inkor]

So Moridin, Lanfear, Demandred are dead.

Moghedien is alive.

And what about Graendal? If she is dead, who killed her?

[dfchang]

She is Aviendha's devoted and adoring slave.