Prologue Through to the End of Chapter 5.

[Luckers]

Discuss.

[Olver_is_a_Forsaken]

I'm not sure what to make of the following sentence Rand says in Chapter 4 Scene 2:

"You've finally let Mierin off her leash, I've seen"

 

What would prompt him to say that? It just seemed really out of the blue.

[dfchang]

I think he was talking about the fact that Lanfear has been invading his dreams trying to seduce him again.

[Olver_is_a_Forsaken]

I think he was talking about the fact that Lanfear has been invading his dreams trying to seduce him again.

 

Well in ToM it's just the opposite. She isn't trying to seduce him; she is calling for help. It seems like she is indeed "on a leash". So is Rand trying to be devious? Sarcastic? I just don't understand the intention behind the statement.

[dfchang]

Well how do we know she was really in trouble?  You can argue that's a way for her to begin her seduction of him by praying on his compassion.

 

Remember that Rand has no real idea or insight into the convoluted and rather deadly politics of the Forsaken.  As far as he knows, Lanfear was gone for a long, long time and now all of a sudden she's back in his dreams.  He surely doesn't believe for a second she really needs his help.  So the next logical assumption is that she is "off Moridin's leash" and back on the job against him so to speak.

[Olver_is_a_Forsaken]

 next logical assumption is that she is "off Moridin's leash" and back on the job against him so to speak.

How does Rand know that she was ever on his leash to begin with? This is the part I don't understand.  Rand sees her go through the doorframe. Does he see her again in his dreams or in reality (or hear of her survival) before that dream scene in the Epilogue of ToM? Maybe I'm just not remembering a scene...

[fionwe1987]

 

I think he was talking about the fact that Lanfear has been invading his dreams trying to seduce him again.

 

Well in ToM it's just the opposite. She isn't trying to seduce him; she is calling for help. It seems like she is indeed "on a leash". So is Rand trying to be devious? Sarcastic? I just don't understand the intention behind the statement.

He's saying he knows Lanfear is up to her usual tricks, he knows it is a trick, and he suspects its because Moridin let her free to do her own thing again. Moridin is nonplussed, implying that he had nothing to do with it at all. The torment thing in ToM was an act.

[Olver_is_a_Forsaken]

He's saying he knows Lanfear is up to her usual tricks, he knows it is a trick, and he suspects its because Moridin let her free to do her own thing again. Moridin is nonplussed, implying that he had nothing to do with it at all. The torment thing in ToM was an act.

 

How does Rand know that Moridin was ever controlling her in the first place?

[KakitaOCU]

He was making an educated guess?

 

By this point he can pretty much understand the game. He knows Morridin is the one leading the enemy forces.

 

It's the type of guess I'd make, trying to fish for more information. Rand sees someone he thought was dead and now knows she's alive. He's talking with Morridin and says "So you let her off her leash" in order to see what Morridin says in response.

 

Basic politics to an extent, you have a question you need answered, you know the person with the answer won't tell you if you just ask them, so you say something designed to get their attention and see if they let anything slip when they respond to that.

[Olver_is_a_Forsaken]

He was making an educated guess? ... trying to fish for more information... so you say something designed to get their attention and see if they let anything slip when they respond to that.

 

That was my understanding as well; it just seemed like "too good a guess" given what he knows. 

[KakitaOCU]

Not nessecarily.

 

He thinks she's been dead for a while now and finds out she's not. He knows that the DO can grab his chosen back after death, there's no logical reason to assume the DO would just hang onto the dead soul a while, so it's safe to assume she's been back a while, but not active as far as Rand knows.

 

Even if he doesn't know about the shorter window of time, it's still an accurate statement. Morridin is effectively the hand of the DO. It's not entirely inaccurate to use the statement if Rand just meant he thought the DO just now brought Lanfear back.

 

Edit: Removed my question about Shadar Haran. I do want to know, but this probably isn't the thread to discuss him in. :)

[Olver_is_a_Forsaken]

Not nessecarily.

 

He thinks she's been dead for a while now and finds out she's not. He knows that the DO can grab his chosen back after death, there's no logical reason to assume the DO would just hang onto the dead soul a while, so it's safe to assume she's been back a while, but not active as far as Rand knows.

 

This is reasonable point; I think I can accept it.

[Mark Al Thor]

I just finished chapter 5......then i had to leave to take my kids ice skating.

 

All i can at this point is: Moiraine.

 

I got choked up. Then had to put the book down and leave.

 

Some serious reading comin up tonight

[Rand the Plumber]

I liked the reveal of Moiraine, although I thought she also came across a bit... mystic.

[cornichon]

Yeah, it's obviously staged for her to come in and save the day, but I don't really mind it. I mean, as fans we've waited for Moiraine's return for more than a decade. In Randland, she's achieved a sort of legendary status for finding the Dragon, discovering the new Amyrlin and a trove of talent-rich channelers, and for taking out multiple Forsaken. And everyone thought she was dead. A little mysticism and mystery surrounding her return is warranted.

 

The one thing that bugs me is that she left after foolishly treating everyone like children and now comes in to save the day (presumably, I haven't read past ch. 5) after watching Rand and Egwene behaving like children. Although it was immeasurably satisfying to have Rand finally call Egwene "a spoiled, self-certain, unmitigated brat." Good times.

[fionwe1987]

...

[cornichon]

Edited to remove any accidental post-ch. 5 spoilers.

[fionwe1987]

...

[cornichon]

Edited to remove any accidental post-ch. 5 spoilers.

[fionwe1987]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, it's obviously staged for her to come in and save the day, but I don't really mind it. I mean, as fans we've waited for Moiraine's return for more than a decade. In Randland, she's achieved a sort of legendary status for finding the Dragon, discovering the new Amyrlin and a trove of talent-rich channelers, and for taking out multiple Forsaken. And everyone thought she was dead. A little mysticism and mystery surrounding her return is warranted. The one thing that bugs me is that she left after foolishly treating everyone like children and now comes in to save the day (presumably, I haven't read past ch. 5) after watching Rand and Egwene behaving like children. Although it was immeasurably satisfying to have Rand finally call Egwene "a spoiled, self-certain, unmitigated brat." Good times.

Except, as Moiraine points out, Egwene was right too. I personally felt it was well done enough, only lacking in that we didn't get a stronger reaction from some others.

 

Not in the first 5 chapters, she doesn't.

 

Of course she does. That's why she asks Rand to leave the breaking of the Seals to Egwene. That happens in chapter 5. The other matter... that is discussed later.

 

No, she doesn't. You're posting spoilers from Chapter 6. Moiraine doesn't utter a word in the first 5 chapters. At the end of Chapter 5, she walks into a tent. That's it.

Damn. My fault. I'll edit it out.

[EdofDoom]

I was a little confused about the bit where Moridin references Weiramon and Lews Therin embracing saidin to hear people's heartbeats. 

Thoughts?

[cornichon]

I was a little confused about the bit where Moridin references Weiramon and Lews Therin embracing saidin to hear people's heartbeats. 

 

Thoughts?

I think this refers to Rand discovering Weiramon as a Darkfriend in TOM.  I guess Rand gave him a One Power polygraph.

[Suttree]

 

I was a little confused about the bit where Moridin references Weiramon and Lews Therin embracing saidin to hear people's heartbeats. 

 

Thoughts?

I think this refers to Rand discovering Weiramon as a Darkfriend in TOM.  I guess Rand gave him a One Power polygraph.

That is what it refers to. He was bluffing an ability to see DF's but in reality was using that simple trick it seems.

[Randzor]

Anyone catch the nod by BS to the fans about who Demanard isn't?

[stgermaine]

Yeah in the pavilion. I am assuming that was what that was. No need for the nod though, I imagine we will find out before the end of the book. Only at chapter 11 myself though.