Combat Skills; Egwene vs. Nynaeve (no ter/sa angreal)

[Suttree]

Alivia is all offense with little or no defensive skills. Someone like Lanfear would know how to get by that foxhead Alivia had or anything else.

 

Correct, just like Nynaeve is "dismal" at everything else besides healing.

[Nightstrike]

 

Which would be balanced out by FAR by the paralis-net. You have answered nothing and more so have done nothing to back up your opinion throughout this thread.

Cyndane was probably over-estimating her chances because she was that much stronger, she didn't know about inverted weaves and both Egwene and Nynaeve are equals in that regard. YOU haven't backed up Egwene's skills in duelling type situations.

[Entreri]

Alivia is all offense with little or no defensive skills. Someone like Lanfear would know how to get by that foxhead Alivia had or anything else.

 

Correct, just like Nynaeve is "dismal" at everything else besides healing.

 

Do you think Egwene would beat Rand Sedai? Just curious.

[Suttree]

Which would be balanced out by FAR by the paralis-net. You have answered nothing and more so have done nothing to back up your opinion throughout this thread.

Cyndane was probably over-estimating her chances because she was that much stronger, she didn't know about inverted weaves and both Egwene and Nynaeve are equals in that regard. YOU haven't backed up Egwene's skills in duelling type situations.

 

Sigh. I said it long ago but it has been fun Nightstrike. At this point though it has become blatantly clear that every time you are shown evidence you just ignore it. We have shown that she is more dexterous, we have shown how that matters in one on one duels such as the on with Talaan, we have shown how much greater her skill and knowledge of the op is, and lastly we have shown that Nyn is "dismal" at all else besides healing. Have a good day mate...

 

 

Do you think Egwene would beat Rand Sedai? Just curious.

 

?

 

Why would you possibly ask that? As I said above she wouldn't stand a chance against someone like Rahvin even. The mere thought is of course absurd outside of Tar.

[Entreri]

Which would be balanced out by FAR by the paralis-net. You have answered nothing and more so have done nothing to back up your opinion throughout this thread.

Cyndane was probably over-estimating her chances because she was that much stronger, she didn't know about inverted weaves and both Egwene and Nynaeve are equals in that regard. YOU haven't backed up Egwene's skills in duelling type situations.

 

Sigh. I said it long ago but it has been fun Nightstrike. At this point though it has become blatantly clear that every time you are shown evidence you just ignore it. We have shown that she is more dexterous, we have shown how that matters in one on one duels such as the on with Talaan, we have shown how much greater her skill and knowledge of the op is, and lastly we have shown that Nyn is "dismal" at all else besides healing. Have a good day mate...

 

 

Do you think Egwene would beat Rand Sedai? Just curious.

 

?

 

Why would you possibly ask that? As I said above she wouldn't stand a chance against someone like Rahvin even. The mere thought is of course absurd outside of Tar.

 

I was wondering how much your love of Egwene could be clouding your judgement.

[Nightstrike]

Sigh. I said it long ago but it has been fun Nightstrike. At this point though it has become blatantly clear that every time you are shown evidence you just ignore it. We have shown that she is more dexterous, we have shown how that matters in one on one duels such as the on with Talaan, we have shown how much greater her skill and knowledge of the op is, and lastly we have shown that Nyn is "dismal" at all else besides healing. Have a good day mate...

Talaan was Nynaeve's strength, and so she had plenty of chances to try her weaves. Egwene would be shielded right away. Moggy is also much stronger than Egwene, and would have no trouble shielding Egwene right away. Nynaeve is now stronger than Moggy, and more skilled than when she faced Moggy. Eggy has no badges to carry.

[Entreri]

Egwene is great, I for one would count her as the #2 after Nyaneve of the current generation.

 

 

 

As for TAR:

 

We don't know how skilled LTT was in TAR. He had to be skilled, otherwise he would have never survived the traps the Forsaken set for him in AoL.

 

We know that Ishamael is uber comfortable in TAR, and Rand beat him.

 

However, I would not put LTT at the level of either Moghdien or Lanfear...but in a will for will battle (Egwene vs. Messana), I doubt anyone has more willpower than the DR.

[driedraspberry]

Eh Cyndane and Alivia are at the two extremes, one being incredibly knowledgeable and skilled, the other caught in the first duel of her life. The comparison just doesn't stand. Nyn's come out on top with Moghie (and linked BA sisters) before she had even reached her potential in OP. I can't recall a time Eggs been in a duel.

 

Eggy and Elayne thought maybe Nynaeve would have a chance against Rand, so strength matters.

 

The difference between Cyndane and Alivia wasn't dexterity. It was knowledge of weaves, knowledge of how to invert your weaves, and so on. Hadn't she inverted her weaves (which Alivia wasn't even aware was possible), then Cyndane would have been dead.

 

My thoughts exactly.

 

If Eggs was to go up against Elayne then dexterity would play an important part. But as capable, experienced and knowledgeable as Nyn is, with her power level, Eggs wouldn't stand a chance IMO.

 

Sigh next I feel like people would be arguing Eggs could have killed Rahvin on her own.

 

No, Nyaneve would toast Egwene, she is too strong. Given equal strength, I would go with Egwene, mentally tougher, she seems at home in battle and I am sure dexterity will come into play somehow.

 

Egwene would defeat Rahvin in TAR. Females appear to be naturally more gifted in TAR and Egwene is top tier.

 

Which Rahvin would know and wouldn't take her there. I'm expecting claims that she could take him head on in Randland. Obviously power difference doesn't matter and Eggs is as dexterous/skilled as Lanfear...and Lanfear was listed just under Ish. ;)

[Suttree]

Talaan was Nynaeve's strength, and so she had plenty of chances to try her weaves.

 

Ok one last post on the topic since you still seem to have trouble understanding how that scene played out. Strength did not play a role there. It showed the exact opposite of strength. As has been stated by others elsewhere in the series we see that the first blow doesn't land if you cut it. Then it can come down to how many times you can split weaves and what you do with them. There is no reason to continue this discussion unless you start supporting your opinion with quotes. Have a good day mate...

 

Nyn's come out on top with Moghie (and linked BA sisters) before she had even reached her potential in OP.

 

Go back and reread that duel. As Luckers explained earlier in the thread it was an arm wrestling match because Mogi was over confident and allowed for no other type of dueling such as what we see with Talaan and Nyn.

 

Luckers

Nynaeve matched Moghedien in an arm wrestle, strength to strength, both locked in to a degree that allowed nothing else. And yes, if such a scenario occurred Nynaeve would defeat Egwene, again based on nothing but brutal strength. But the question was combat skills, not a combat of brute strength such as what occured between Moghedien and Nynaeve--such things are rare and stupid. It occurred only because Moghedien underestimated the Third Ager and allowed herself to be drawn in to such a confrontation--in effect by the time she realised her stupidity her strength was commited. This is not something Egwene would allow to happen. Her methodology--the entire nature of her arc, including her face-down with Nynaeve--was to learn to attack with care and precision. Indeed, her face-down was the defining point were she realized this lesson.

 

Which Rahvin would know and wouldn't take her there. I'm expecting claims that she could take him head on in Randland. Obviously power difference doesn't matter and Eggs is as dexterous/skilled as Lanfear...and Lanfear was listed just under Ish. ;)

 

The comparable power levels aren't remotely close.

[Nightstrike]

Strength played a role for her to have many chances to try her weaves, and for them both to be able to cut each other's weaves. Nynaeve is a bonfire next to Egwene's candle (slight exaggeration, maybe).

[Luckers]

Isn't it called reversed channeling and inverted weaves?

 

Nope. In fact the Forsaken (from whom both terms originate) would never refer to something as an inverted weave. It would be an inverted web. A reversed channeling is actually viable description, but no one would ever use it.

 

The destinction between reversion and inversion is that an inverted weave (or web) is where someone creates a weave and then after completing it, hides it (inverts it). Reversing a weave (or web) is the act of hiding it as you weave it (or spin it).

[Entreri]

Eh Cyndane and Alivia are at the two extremes, one being incredibly knowledgeable and skilled, the other caught in the first duel of her life. The comparison just doesn't stand. Nyn's come out on top with Moghie (and linked BA sisters) before she had even reached her potential in OP. I can't recall a time Eggs been in a duel.

 

Eggy and Elayne thought maybe Nynaeve would have a chance against Rand, so strength matters.

 

The difference between Cyndane and Alivia wasn't dexterity. It was knowledge of weaves, knowledge of how to invert your weaves, and so on. Hadn't she inverted her weaves (which Alivia wasn't even aware was possible), then Cyndane would have been dead.

 

My thoughts exactly.

 

If Eggs was to go up against Elayne then dexterity would play an important part. But as capable, experienced and knowledgeable as Nyn is, with her power level, Eggs wouldn't stand a chance IMO.

 

Sigh next I feel like people would be arguing Eggs could have killed Rahvin on her own.

 

No, Nyaneve would toast Egwene, she is too strong. Given equal strength, I would go with Egwene, mentally tougher, she seems at home in battle and I am sure dexterity will come into play somehow.

 

Egwene would defeat Rahvin in TAR. Females appear to be naturally more gifted in TAR and Egwene is top tier.

 

Which Rahvin would know and wouldn't take her there. I'm expecting claims that she could take him head on in Randland. Obviously power difference doesn't matter and Eggs is as dexterous/skilled as Lanfear...and Lanfear was listed just under Ish. ;)

 

Since Rahvin could take Lanfear, Egwene is toast. Moghdiein was terrified of his Power.

[Luckers]

Strength played a role for her to have many chances to try her weaves, and for them both to be able to cut each other's weaves. Nynaeve is a bonfire next to Egwene's candle (slight exaggeration, maybe).

 

Actually the Bargain was what resulted in her having many chances to try her weaves. Strength played no role in that either.

[Nightstrike]

Inverted weaves is used as a description in the books (maybe by "present day" channelers). I know there was a piece (theory?) some time ago about the concepts. It might have been wrong. i believe I have it somewhere.

[driedraspberry]

My point is Nyn and Alivia aren't equally matched in skills. Arm wrestle or not Nyn's practiced in duels which is as valuable as any skill. The latter had never up to that point.

[Luckers]

Inverted weaves is used as a description in the books (maybe by "present day" channelers). I know there was a piece (theory?) some time ago about the concepts. It might have been wrong. i believe I have it somewhere.

 

It's wrong if it disagrees with me. True story.

[Nightstrike]

Actually the Bargain was what resulted in her having many chances to try her weaves. Strength played no role in that either.

Didn't they cut each other's shields in order to stop them? I think they must have. Then strength matters.

[Luckers]

I was wondering how much your love of Egwene could be clouding your judgement.

 

Ahh so we have reached the point where someone is frustrated with the debate and so tries to go low blow with claims of "fanboism". Can't say it's surprising given your posting history but odd nevertheless since you well know Egwene isn't even in my top 5 characters.

 

What I will not do is allow power levels to cloud my judgment against all else. As was stated earlier in the thread "Children often think strength is everything. It's the bluntest form of power. The most obvious. And, usually, the least effective."

 

Does it help if I say I like Nynaeve better than Egwene?

[Nightstrike]

Inverted weaves is used as a description in the books (maybe by "present day" channelers). I know there was a piece (theory?) some time ago about the concepts. It might have been wrong. i believe I have it somewhere.

 

It's wrong if it disagrees with me. True story.

Yeah, I only found 3 matches for "inverted weaves". I'll see if I can dig up that old theory. I have forgotten most about it.

[Entreri]

Dexterity definitely plays some part but not to a large degree like OP strength or the largest factor, which is skill in the OP.

 

Otherwise Rahvin would never think he or Sammael could defeat Lanfear.

 

Plus someone like Asmodean or Moghdien would never comment on men's superior strength. Why bother if it is elminated by the women's dexterity bonus.

 

6 AS would never be sent to take on a male channeler.

 

Finally, nobody would treat Lanfear like she has been, given she would be equal to Ishamael.

[Luckers]

Aight I'm ending that spat before it begins. On topic, not on each other.

[driedraspberry]

[removed]

 

My point is Nyn and Alivia aren't equally matched in skills.

 

Neither are Eggy and Nyn. Nyn has more strength. Eggy more knowledge, skill and dexterity. Per Cads Nyn is "dismal" at all else besides healing.

 

Right, but to say the difference between Eggy and Nun is comparable to that of Cyndane and Alivia is a stretch.

[Entreri]

If Nyaneve was too specialized, it is doubtful she could have pass the test for AS. Her test could have been the most grueling in AS history.

 

This match between her and Egwene will certainly not look like Lanfear vs. Alivia.

 

I don't think there is anything else to add.

[Suttree]

If Nyaneve was too specialized, it is doubtful she could have pass the test for AS. Her test could have been the most grueling in AS history.

 

This has already been addressed...

 

"But again, she didn't practice... she memorized. Off hand. The text is very clear about this--she barely pays attention to the weaves, and certainly she doesn't do it because of an interest in learning about weaving--she does it, as you say, for the teacher. And thus learned little. In fact, nothing, other than the weave itself."

 

It showed great strength of will but doesn't expand her skill outside of memorizing the needed weaves.

 

As an aside, who ever said their match would look like Lanfear v. Alivia? That fight was used as one example of many(much as the Talaan/Nynaeve duel) to show dexterity over strength.

 

[removed]

 

My point is Nyn and Alivia aren't equally matched in skills.

 

Neither are Eggy and Nyn. Nyn has more strength. Eggy more knowledge, skill and dexterity. Per Cads Nyn is "dismal" at all else besides healing.

 

Right, but to say the difference between Eggy and Nun is comparable to that of Cyndane and Alivia is a stretch.

 

No one ever said that.

[Knivy]

was nyn trying to shield the sea folk gal, or as she just playing defense? I thought she was just defense..