Thisguy's Topic on Brandon's Work

[constantduty]

I'd like to chime in here. After reading the prologue I once again reflected on the transition from RJ to BS in WoT. Rather than start a new topic on my thoughts I'll just post in this thread. For me, this particular reading was the first time I fully realized that RJ was gone. I know, I know. He passed away several years ago and BS has two WoT books under his belt. Yet, I had never really processed his passing. I think we all have probably shared similar experiences to some extent outside of our WoT readings. Those experiences may be major, a loved one dying, or minor, your home team at the bottom of the standings after winning a title only a few seasons past. Sometimes you just need time to catch up with you and affirm your losses.

 

I'm pretty bummed out. The man who had introduced me to WoT's rich and vibrant world is not there to see me through its own passing. How devastating this must be to those who were closest to RJ. Wrapping up WoT not only wraps up the story of our beloved Emond's fielders: wrapping up WoT wraps up RJ's story as well. And how difficult it must be to see this through to the end. Not only does AMoL silence RJ in a way, but it also must put a tremendous amount of pressure on everyone involved to give RJ's readers the book he would have wanted them to have. I do not envy anyone involved in these final few months before AMoL's release. Also, and this is legitimately putting all internet hyperbole aside, my heart goes to Harriet. I cannot imagine what this experience must be like for her.

 

Now, BS had an impossible and thankless task to begin with. I'm happy that he was able and willing to accept the challenge of seeing WoT through to the end. I'm appreciative of the care and respect he has shown for the series. Sure, mistakes were made, inconsistencies have popped up, and things got a little weird at times. Yet, I'm very very grateful to BS for sticking it all out. Especially in the halycon days of internet hyperbole, rhetoric, and authorities.

 

In my opinion topics and discussions like these have their place in another time and day. Let the dust settle before the bickering begins (continues). Let's take off our would-be-literary critic hats and enjoy the ride. We're fortunate to get the send off we've all been waiting for. We were never quite sure we'd make it to the last battle, but here we are. Let's all show a little respect, grace, and tact by toning down the rhetoric a little on both sides of the argument.

[Suttree]

Now, BS had an impossible and thankless task to begin with. I'm happy that he was able and willing to accept the challenge of seeing WoT through to the end. I'm appreciative of the care and respect he has shown for the series. Sure, mistakes were made, inconsistencies have popped up, and things got a little weird at times. Yet, I'm very very grateful to BS for sticking it all out. Especially in the halycon days of internet hyperbole, rhetoric, and authorities.

 

Mostly true and well said. Not sure how much you can call a huge boost of sales for your own work and sky rocketing popularity due to a connection with the WoT thankless however. Nevertheless we should all be grateful for him stepping up to the plate and at least taking a swing.

 

In my opinion topics and discussions like these have their place in another time and day. Let the dust settle before the bickering begins (continues). Let's take off our would-be-literary critic hats and enjoy the ride. We're fortunate to get the send off we've all been waiting for. We were never quite sure we'd make it to the last battle, but here we are. Let's all show a little respect, grace, and tact by toning down the rhetoric a little on both sides of the argument.

 

That's just it though. No one should settle for "just getting to the end", this is the final work upon which RJ's legacy will be judged and just being happy at the ending isn't nearly good enough. Further more the fact that TGS was almost universally praised despite it's many issues upon release shows just how much WoT fans had the kid gloves on. If there had been a more realistic analysis from the start things could very well be much different. I truly hope AMoL is the best of the three and does justice to RJ's life's work. Knowing what I do about the man himself he would want every single person to call it like they see it, and debate it's worth to the very end.

[Ashaman Kovan]

Hey sutt, can I ask, given what you know now, how you feel about the way Brandon has handled everything and all that, would you rather the series just not have been finished? I don't mean that in a snarky way, nor am I trying to push the "wah be happy it got finished wahhh" agenda. I'm genuinely curious.

[Suttree]

Hey sutt, can I ask, given what you know now, how you feel about the way Brandon has handled everything and all that, would you rather the series just not have been finished? I don't mean that in a snarky way, nor am I trying to push the "wah be happy it got finished wahhh" agenda. I'm genuinely curious.

 

Not at all. As I've posted above we should all be grateful for him stepping up to the plate and taking a swing. In addition I do feel that he has done some good work with the series. What we can't do however is ever be satisfied with just getting an ending. Dissenting opinions and critique should always be welcomed, indeed that is where true growth and progression comes from. Our society has fallen into a rut with calling out any conflicting viewpoint as "hating" or "bashing" and with the WoT it seems as if some posters take it as a personnel affront.

 

Having said that we all know that this process stretched on much longer than originally thought and was not always smooth. I firmly believe some of the initial "shine" wore off the project for Brandon which is perfectly understandable. My questions come in regards to how things were handled once that happened. The quote from Peter earlier in this thread is indeed an AS answer.

[Ashaman Kovan]

I definitely agree about the Peter comment.

[Southpaw89]

I honestly think it's ridiculous and insulting when people say Brandon just did this project for the money. Obviously money is one thing because writing is his career and he needs to support him and his family but to say he only did this for the money is stupid. For one, if he did this and screwed up miserably, his career would be in trouble in terms of trying to be successful (such as for The Stormlight Archive). Not only was he taking over a project from the best selling American fantasy author in history but he was having to sort through thousands of pages of notes to sort through what needs to happen to finish a series so well loved. Critiquing what he has done is one thing and yes, he has made some mistakes that he probably should've done better on, but to say this is all about money and all that is beyond stupid.

[Ashaman Kovan]

I haven't really seen anyone say that he just did it for money. No one who is taken seriously at least.

[Southpaw89]

ha nope just throwing in the point before it comes up

[Suttree]

I haven't really seen anyone say that he just did it for money. No one who is taken seriously at least.

 

Think there may have been one person and yes they shouldn't be taken seriously.

[The Fisher King]

Of course he did it for the money. Once he signed a contract, the last book (since split three ways) it became his JOB. Do any of YOU do YOUR job for free? I don't ;)

 

I think what may be more accurate is to say that he certainly didn't sign on for ONLY the money with no care for quality or the fans. That would be pretty silly.

 

 

Fish

[MarkDiLillo]

I honestly think it's ridiculous and insulting when people say Brandon just did this project for the money. Obviously money is one thing because writing is his career and he needs to support him and his family but to say he only did this for the money is stupid. For one, if he did this and screwed up miserably, his career would be in trouble in terms of trying to be successful (such as for The Stormlight Archive). Not only was he taking over a project from the best selling American fantasy author in history but he was having to sort through thousands of pages of notes to sort through what needs to happen to finish a series so well loved. Critiquing what he has done is one thing and yes, he has made some mistakes that he probably should've done better on, but to say this is all about money and all that is beyond stupid.

 

I dont think anyone said he just did this for money. I said that it is beginning to sound like he "took the money and ran". By this I mean he accepted a project that turned his tepid carer into an actual lifelong and successful career and now is rushing through to finish the books without paying them the proper respect and attention to detail. Make no mistake, this was a life changing project for him and it did nothing but advance his career significantly. If he accepted this, fully aware that it was going to enhance his career so much, and then didn't put forth 100% effort to get it done right...well that's where taking the money and running comes from. I dont necessarily stand by that phrase because there is a lot of inside information regarding the process that likely would make a big difference in my opinion. I merely said that it was beginning to look and feel that way from my perspective.

 

I don't look at this process as anything to be grateful towards him for. He did not have an especially difficult task to perform IMO - perhaps only a boring one. Ghostwriters everywhere take up the same task as BS took up in writing these last three books and there seems to be no large thanks or appreciation given to them. As fans, we should be thankful that Brandon ineracts with the community along the way, but our primary gratitude should be going towards Harriet and Team Jordan who undertook this project for us. Really...thankful to Brandon Sanderson for finishig a series that skyrocketed him to fame? He wasn't a famous author that sacrificed anything to finish the series in RJs name - he was a young and relatively unknown author that was lucky enough to be chosen to finish one of the most popular fantasy series ever written. AND he is being paid for is work. If anything, he should be grateful to us for being such a loyal fan base that generated enough interest in the project to allow him this opportunity.

 

Excuse me if this sounds harsh. I know that we are grateful that we get to read the last three books, but look at this from a top down approach and think about who we should really be grateful to. Brandon Sanderson is not actually the guy we should be thanking and he should be subject to extreme criticism if his work is not of the highest quality. Harriet and Team Jordan pushed this project forward for us, the fans, and the author working for her has a responsibility to make sure that his work is of high enough quality to be well received by the fan base. Don't ever forget that RJ and Harriet agreed together to finish this series for the fans and only for the fans.

[The Fisher King]

I also get a bit tired of this weird idea some seem to have that B.S. did the world a favor by accepting this. What he will receive from this goes far beyond money. Rightly or wrongly he will now always be known as "The Man Who Finished 'The Wheel of Time' ."

 

And while it makes me queasy to even type that, it is a bit of honor and distinction that he can now - rightly or wrongly - hang on his mantle.

 

 

Fish

[Southpaw89]

I honestly think it's ridiculous and insulting when people say Brandon just did this project for the money. Obviously money is one thing because writing is his career and he needs to support him and his family but to say he only did this for the money is stupid. For one, if he did this and screwed up miserably, his career would be in trouble in terms of trying to be successful (such as for The Stormlight Archive). Not only was he taking over a project from the best selling American fantasy author in history but he was having to sort through thousands of pages of notes to sort through what needs to happen to finish a series so well loved. Critiquing what he has done is one thing and yes, he has made some mistakes that he probably should've done better on, but to say this is all about money and all that is beyond stupid.

 

I dont think anyone said he just did this for money. I said that it is beginning to sound like he "took the money and ran". By this I mean he accepted a project that turned his tepid carer into an actual lifelong and successful career and now is rushing through to finish the books without paying them the proper respect and attention to detail. Make no mistake, this was a life changing project for him and it did nothing but advance his career significantly. If he accepted this, fully aware that it was going to enhance his career so much, and then didn't put forth 100% effort to get it done right...well that's where taking the money and running comes from. I dont necessarily stand by that phrase because there is a lot of inside information regarding the process that likely would make a big difference in my opinion. I merely said that it was beginning to look and feel that way from my perspective.

 

I don't look at this process as anything to be grateful towards him for. He did not have an especially difficult task to perform IMO - perhaps only a boring one. Ghostwriters everywhere take up the same task as BS took up in writing these last three books and there seems to be no large thanks or appreciation given to them. As fans, we should be thankful that Brandon ineracts with the community along the way, but our primary gratitude should be going towards Harriet and Team Jordan who undertook this project for us. Really...thankful to Brandon Sanderson for finishig a series that skyrocketed him to fame? He wasn't a famous author that sacrificed anything to finish the series in RJs name - he was a young and relatively unknown author that was lucky enough to be chosen to finish one of the most popular fantasy series ever written. AND he is being paid for is work.

 

Excuse me if this sounds harsh. I know that we are grateful that we get to read the last three books, but look at this from a top down approach and think about who we should really be grateful to. Brandon Sanderson is not actually the guy we should be thanking and he should be subject to extreme criticism if his work is not of the highest quality. Harriet and Team Jordan pushed this project forward for us, the fans, and the author working for her has a responsibility to make sure that his work is of high enough quality to be well received by the fan base. Don't ever forget that RJ and Harriet agreed together to finish this series for the fans and only for the fans.

 

 

Well yeah and it's understandable to be critical of some of the stuff he has done but he put aside a lot of his own work to finish this project. Did it help his career? Yes. Did he make a lot of money from it? Yes. However, we as a fan community get the ending to a series in book form over a 10 page blog entry that explains what happened. Brandon has said before that there was only about 200 manuscript pages written out by RJ about the final 3 books so Brandon had a lot of work to do. Most of it being to sort through RJ's notes and arranging stuff. Could the whole process been done better in order to eliminate errors? Yes but people have been aching for an ending for a long time and the series has been going on for 23 years so they have done what they could for the time given. I just don't think we should criticize Brandon because anyone else would've done what he did for the reasons he did but he's also a big fan who was inspired by RJ so we got someone who truly loves the series to finish it.

[The Fisher King]

I have been VERY RELUCTANT here since TOMs release to voice MY views on the post-jordan books but my resistance is futile and crumbling.

 

I WILL say that Mark D, Suttree, YoniyO, Luckers and Deadsy are just a few of those here who have VERY closely mirrored my private thoughts.

 

I had a long conversation with Mr Jordan in 1991 about TWOT (in person, and it was MY honor) and all I can say is, I believe he would be more than a little upset about some things but he was a gentleman to the end and Ive tried hard to mirror his example.

 

 

Fish

[Ashaman Kovan]

Well there went the anonymity of how you feel lol. ; ]

[The Fisher King]

I never intended to be anonymous. What do you want me to say? I've quietly watched this whole process like a hawk. I'll always believe you have to separate professional from personal. Ive concluded that Brandon is a great human being, wonderful family man, sweet guy who gives a wonderful amount of time and access to his fans.

 

Professionally though...I'm sorry. His books read like YA novels. His "humor" reminds me of David Eddings "witty" repartee. His ability to execute multi-layered prose and his particular turn of phrase make me grit my teeth...but it is so mu h more that gets under my skin.

 

He once said Mat was an untrustworthy narrator and he was right. But he was WRONG about WHY Mat is. Mat's tick is that he will actively be doing the opposite of what he is currently thinking. (EX: ''I will NOT harry off to rescue those fool women again'' - while he's saddling Pips to do just that.) ... Or: ''Battle are NOT the place to be - a man could get holes poked into him in one of those!'' while he's killing a Trolloc or dueling Couladin, lol. The ''letter'' in TOM was disgusting and the repeated Back Story ''gag''...well...I'll say no more...Mat is also a very SERIOUS character. He thinks and ponders and plans and worries. His comedy comes from events AROUND him and from the dichotomy between his thoughts and actions. He doesn't go around performing like a circus clown. There are MULTIPLE times in the series where Mat goes off and finds a boulder to sit on and reflect. He does it again in TGS. This was my favorite Mat moment in TGS. Mat WAS better in TOM but much of that was Jordan's writing. One part in TOM that Sanderson wrote that I liked was Mat's first chapter. ''A Seven-Striped Lass.'' But it was still too heavy-handed. Its like Sanderson shouting ''See? I toned him down!''

 

Note: Out of the entire book, there is only ONE Mat Scene that I don't have confirmation on the writing. And that is his duel with the Gholam. I'd LOVE to know who wrote that.

 

He altered the way Mat and Cadsuane (my two favorite characters) fundamentally DO things. He had Elayne change from Silly to Idiot. Mat from Rebel to Jester. Cadsuane frm Strong to Bully. He broke the Fourth Wall in AMOL with his self-gratifying multiple references to Talmanes having had a sense of humor all along simply to back up his own insistence that that was how HE (Sanderson) "had always interpreted" the character.

 

He wrote a terrible Egwene in TOM. Of course it is since revealed that almost all of her scenes in TGS were Jordan.

 

Too often he is like a kid saying "See??! See?! I TOLD you I was right!"

 

Too many things make me cringe. Usually Mat. Mat in almost ALL of Chapter 11 made me sick.

 

I think Brandon thought it would be "cool" to write AMOL and was honored. TGS was NOT bad Imo. TOM was a trainwreck.

 

I remember being up late one quiet night and seeing Jason Denzel accidentally post his pre release review of TOM. I got to read it before it was quickly pulled and modified. It was not kind. I knew we were in trouble.

 

I think it got too much for Brandon and he got impatient. And sloppy. Noone would have done as good a job as Jordan and I am convinced that if BRANDON would have paid more attention to detail and done the best BRANDON could do we would have had a much better book. Luckers, Terez, Suttree and many others here have pointed that out better than I can.

 

Many people have said: At least they got a ''fan'' to write it. And I'm now convinced that had a negative impact as well. Way too much Naming has gone on and the ''action'' scenes in TOM read like a matrixy fanfic. I can do without BllodKnives and DreamSpikes and Shards etc...and with EVERYONE being a Blademaster now. The scene in Chapter 11 was insult to injury regarding THAT, imo.

 

Too often, sadly, Brandon Sanderson's involvement with WOT has given me the image of a little boy trying to dress up in his father's clothes :-(

 

It means a lot to me. I remember that COT was the last book my mom read before she died very unexpectedly. I look at my autographed first edition TEOTW. I think of meeting Mr Jordan and friendships WOT has led me too.

 

Ill still be there at the end. Hoping for the best.

 

 

Fish

[Sid]

I have been VERY RELUCTANT here since TOMs release to voice MY views on the post-jordan books but my resistance is futile and crumbling.

 

I WILL say that Mark D, Suttree, YoniyO, Luckers and Deadsy are just a few of those here who have VERY closely mirrored my private thoughts.

 

I had a long conversation with Mr Jordan in 1991 about TWOT (in person, and it was MY honor) and all I can say is, I believe he would be more than a little upset about some things but he was a gentleman to the end and Ive tried hard to mirror his example.

 

 

Fish

I feel you, Fish. I never had the opportunity to meet the man, but just from reading these books you can tell how much he cared about them. I'm jealous that you got to discuss the subject with him directly, but I believe having that experience would make me feel even worse when I read the books now.

[The Fisher King]

Sid.

 

Thanks.

 

Remember those games we all used to play a long time ago before DM changed in that other forum, lol?

 

I met Mr Jordan at a little comic book shop in Houston when he was on tour for TEOTW. This was pre-internet but people in the know who had gotten advanced copied were raving about it already. I got lucky. The store was almost empty and my mom and I got to sit there and chat with him for almost an hour. He was awesome. Kinda like Santa Claus, lol. Big and Jolly, uncomfortable, humble but confident. And he would wave his arms all around when making a point and he just kept saying how EVERYTHING played on each other and you just had to wait and see how all the seeds planted in TEOTW would come out later in the series. He made it clear he was playing the ''Long Game.'' This is why I always thought he was having fun with people when he years later said he thought originally it would be a trilogy, lol. No way.

 

I just hate seeing SIMPLE things desecrated.

 

Some things ARE a big deal. The whole thing with ''bloody ashes'' KILLS me.

 

First time I read TGS I was taken out of the story EVERY time I read that phrase. Avhienda not referring to ''Sister Wives'' instead of Aunt and Uncle is just weird. And WHY change things? NO NEED. In over TEN THOUSAND pages that came before TGS not one single character EVER used the phrase ''bloody ashes.'' And the proper form was a DEFINING characteristic of Cauthon's.

 

Not a big deal to some? Sure. The casual reader. To many who analyze what they read, grew up with this series and love continuity, its a REAL big deal.

 

Another thing Im going to blow to smithereens here seeing as how you all have me all worked up, lol, is: ''I laugh everytime someone criticizes something and it turns out RJ wrote it.''

 

Ever notice how someone saying that has NEVER had ONE concrete example of this?

 

I KNOW much more than most (because im a total research geek only and have SCOURED every interview Sanderson has ever done - AND Terez and Co's EXCELLENT 'Index'' lol) regarding the whole ''Who Wrote What'' and that 'argument' is total crud. maybe Ill post my extensive ''Who Wrote What'' Index sometime. I've avoided it out of respect to DM's desire to keep the focus on the story until AMOL is out but my trigger finger is getting itchy lol.

 

Remember Brandon saying one day he'd like to do a published concordance of annotated his writing and Jordan's? Trust me. Harriet will NEVER let anything like that see the light of day.

 

People point to Harriet saying how Brandon got Mat right after TGS. Of COURSE she said that. What else COULD she say? You always defend your own team in PUBLIC. Brandon was HER GUY She was PROTECTING him.

 

I could go on and on.

 

Everyone calling everyone ''Son'' (even in TEOTW Tam never even called his own son, Son) and everyone exclaiming ''Light, bless you!'' and the overuse of the term ''Royalty'' where with only one exception Jordan ALWAYS favored ''Nobility''...EVERYONE being a Blademaster now...GRRR.

 

When you have the excellent Search Feature on a Kindle and also have all the books on said Kindle...you can learn a lot ;-)

 

See what you peeps have done to me?? For shame... ;)

 

 

Fish

[KakitaOCU]

The Fisher, thank you for your input and opinion, might not agree with a lot of it, but it's honest, and it's without insult or push to be "right" Though I would suggest maybe the divide of "Casual reader" vs Those who really love the continuity is a bit... poorly chosen. That's not the divide. That maybe a divide that exists, but the line between people who don't have as much issue with BS and those who do is mostly certainly not a simple issue of "Only casual readers".

 

As the simplest example, the Bloody Ashes thing never bothered me. Maybe it's just real life applying, but I've known (and been one of) many people who used to be a lot wordier with everything, including profanity. As time went on and they grew they got shorter with their words and again, their profanity. It seems a natural evolution to me. Not remotely trying to claim I'm right, or anything silly like that, but I'm far from a casual fan and yet have a very different view on that piece than you. So do others..

 

To Mark, I agree with your last post, BS owed quite a bit to the fans and owed his best work and should be judged. The only place I'm not with you on is the assumption that he hasn't. For better or for worse, you, this forum, me, all of us discussing the books. We're the vocal minority. Our voices, no matter how loud, do not truly or accurately reflect the fandom at large and never can. There's too many people who love the books, who aren't just casual readers, but who just don't care to be involved in these large discussions and internet communities. You might be cynical enough to feel that these books would be best sellers no matter how they had actually turned out, but I don't see that. Most serious readers stop reading if things go bad. There's a reason half of SoT's fans vanished after SoF. There's a reason myself and others, who stuck it out through the bad to see the end of Confessor refused to touch his newer novels. If I had picked up TGS and not been legitimately pleased with it, I wouldn't have bought ToM. If I wasn't happy with ToM I wouldn't be waiting patiently for AMoL. I am not unique or alone in this stance.

 

So I will happily respect your opinion, probably even agree with you on some of it (The Backstories in Mat's TGS chapters drove me insane, as an example), I really do draw the line with how I see a very clear "Us vs them" approach in many posts on this subject.

[The Fisher King]

I never meant the term ''casual fan'' insultingly. Maybe what I mean there is that different readers are gratified by different things. For me, ''seeing how the story ends'' is not nearly enough. I need continuity. I need deep characterization and not just plot movement. I totally understand though, that MY expectations should not be the standard by which ALL readers should be judged.

 

 

Fish

[KakitaOCU]

Fair enough, and I wasn't trying to imply any deliberate insult with the term casual reader, merely that it can come across as such. That and that not everyone who didn't find various mistakes was missing them for not looking to the details, just that they were able to rationalize them quickly into the narrative.

[Zewe]

I never meant the term ''casual fan'' insultingly. Maybe what I mean there is that different readers are gratified by different things. For me, ''seeing how the story ends'' is not nearly enough. I need continuity. I need deep characterization and not just plot movement.

 

After reading the last page of this thread, I've gotten a much deeper appreciation for those who are so discontent with Sanderson's conclusion to this series, but what I don't understand is... Did any of you honestly expect ANYONE to be able to bring WoT to a close in anything even resembling a Jordan-like manner? Sanderson doesn't hold a candle to Jordan, absolutely. I mean no insult to neither him nor his writing with that statement; I don't believe anyone would be able to write WoT anywhere even remotely close to as well as Jordan did. Aside from the fact that these are his books and this is his story, the man was also a truly one-of-a-kind, beyond brilliant author, and the belief that no one in the world is capable of matching, surpassing, or even nearing the quality of his writing is a solid one. I mean, how many other fantasy books - or, hell, ANY books - have you come across that you've found as compellingly-written as WoT?

 

Puppies making all sorts of noise and I've lost my train of thought, apologies.

 

What I'm trying to say is simply this: I believe Brandon Sanderson's two contributions to the Wheel of Time saga have been excellent. The writing, comparatively speaking, has been abominable, but I don't believe that's for lack of trying, nor is it because of any apathy, cash-mongering, or other sinister attribute of the man. He's no Robert Jordan, but no one is, and so no one can write like Robert Jordan. Some of the characters have been written shamefully - Mat, most notably - but others have also been written quite well - Rand, TGS Egwene, Perrin in every way - and, for me at least, that balances out well enough. While I am by no means content with simply "getting to the end," I would prefer sloppily written garbage over nothing, or a simple outline of events from KoD onward, most definitely. And these are not sloppily written. Again, they're nowhere near the quality of the original works, but also again, nothing ever can be, and I thought that was understood in 2007. What we've gotten hasn't been perfect, some excellent characters have been inadvertently turned into one-dimensional parodies, among a number of other shortcomings and failings, but the end result has been highly enjoyable nonetheless. Most likely because it takes place in Jordan's world with Jordan's ideas and Jordan's story and all that, but regardless of that, the product is not shoddy. It's been a delight to read, and while I'll grant that Sanderson may or may not have been the ideal man for the job, I don't believe he was by any means a bad choice for it.

 

All things considered, and given what could have become of the story - never having the final chapter released, or having it produced by a truly terrible author, or anything in between - Brandon Sanderson has done an admirable job with WoT, and I can't imagine anyone who says otherwise being content with anything short of a finished series penned by ghost-Jordan. And that's not happening. Do yourselves a favor and "critique" the work after the story's finished; what we have is enjoyable and satisfying, and you're robbing yourselves of a lot with your overly-critical cynicism. Even if much of it is well-founded. The Wheel weaves, and all that.

[KakitaOCU]

I don't know that I'd call comments from Fisher or Suttree or some of the others cynical. They're honestly unhappy with certain details, often in ways I find confusing if we're being honest. But I find them legitimate expressions of opinion, not the voice of a cynic. The only time I've really seen cynicism start slipping in is with the suggestions that Brandon phoned it in, or just took the money and stopped caring.

[The Fisher King]

Yeah. Its not cynicism or personal dislike fueling me. I see many things that make Brandon seem like a VERY likeable person. I'm also on record as enjoying (for the most part) TGS. Noone wanted Sanderson to triumph more than those who genuinely love the series. But, if the emperor has no clothes, then he has no clothes!

 

I also never expected Sanderson to do as good a job as Jordan could have. I'm upset that - with all the resources offered to him - that Mr Sanderson didn't do as good a job (on LITTLE things!) that Mr SANDERSON could have done!!

 

 

Fish

[The Fisher King]

Its like...say you are a master roofer and your top assistant is also a very good roofer. He helps you every day. One day he is ill and you ask me to fill in. I say "Wait...I'm no roofer. Wont be nearly as competent as you or your usual helper."....and you say "No worries. I just need you to hold the ladder."

 

Ok. Fair enough.

 

But then, later that day on the job, I get lazy and stop holding the ladder. You fall and break your leg and the roof collapses. You're mad and I say "Hey! Dont blame MME! I told you I was no roofer!"

 

And you're like "You could have AT LEAST HELD THE FLAMING LADDER YOU SON OF A GOAT!!"

 

LOL.

 

See?

 

 

Fish