rand was almost dark ones champion.

[Guest Dark_Rand]

Rand al Thor, pre GoV, almost completed the dark ones task for him by destroying the pattern. That's the dark ones goal, after all. And I think that the light covering rqnds brain protecting him from the darkness is the light incarnate. After all, even the forsaken talk about how there has never been someone spun from the wheel specifically till him. Therefore, VoG was the opening round of the last battle, and The light won. I think that is where rand first "dies" . It's my first time be gentle lol

[FarShainMael]

It was a round in the battle, I agree. I'm not sure it was the first one. There's something Verin said a while ago: "this battle isn't being fought the way al'Thor assumes it will be". (TGS39) The way the tenses are used in that is something I find very interesting. Verin is saying, in effect, that the battle has already started; and also, that Rand doesn't realise that, any more than he realises the nature of the battle itself. And I think you're right: he found out what the battle really was on top of Dragonmount.

[Morden]

I dont think I agree with you there, metaphysical death just doesnt scream messianic enough.

 

Just remember that even if he does die, he will not be the first one to come back from being dead. Look at Mat after he meets the foxes. The Snakes told him he'd die and live again, then they hung him and I dont think it was for a few minutes either, They were inside Rhiudion for 7 days.

 

Nope I think he's gonna do a Jesus, dead for 3 days, up and walking around, save the world then goes away.

[Suttree]

I dont think I agree with you there, metaphysical death just doesnt scream messianic enough.

 

Just remember that even if he does die, he will not be the first one to come back from being dead. Look at Mat after he meets the foxes. The Snakes told him he'd die and live again, then they hung him and I dont think it was for a few minutes either, They were inside Rhiudion for 7 days.

 

The only time Mat came back was when Rahvin killed him and then was balefired. Per RJ, Mat was never dead in Rhuidean.

[Morden]

I dont think I agree with you there, metaphysical death just doesnt scream messianic enough.

 

Just remember that even if he does die, he will not be the first one to come back from being dead. Look at Mat after he meets the foxes. The Snakes told him he'd die and live again, then they hung him and I dont think it was for a few minutes either, They were inside Rhiudion for 7 days.

 

The only time Mat came back was when Rahvin killed him and then was balefired. Per RJ, Mat was never dead in Rhuidean.

 

Hmm so he was hung in a way which couldnt kill him? so what was the whole "To die and live again..." part for? Mat didnt really die and live again due to the whole balefire stopping his death from ever happening( I assumed thats what the 2nd part of the death prophecy was for: "and live once more as part of what was".

 

So is Mat's gonna do a jesus now as well?... /facepalm

[Knivy]

He wasnt hanging long enough to die, and apparently the Live and Die part was satisfied by the balefire thing.

[Suttree]

I dont think I agree with you there, metaphysical death just doesnt scream messianic enough.

 

Just remember that even if he does die, he will not be the first one to come back from being dead. Look at Mat after he meets the foxes. The Snakes told him he'd die and live again, then they hung him and I dont think it was for a few minutes either, They were inside Rhiudion for 7 days.

 

The only time Mat came back was when Rahvin killed him and then was balefired. Per RJ, Mat was never dead in Rhuidean.

 

Hmm so he was hung in a way which couldnt kill him? so what was the whole "To die and live again..." part for? Mat didnt really die and live again due to the whole balefire stopping his death from ever happening( I assumed thats what the 2nd part of the death prophecy was for: "and live once more as part of what was".

 

The Rahvin incident fulfilled that piece.

 

Interview: Apr 5th, 1996

BaltiCon XXX - Pam Korda (Paraphrased)

Question

 

When did Mat die and live again?

Robert Jordan

 

He said something that implied that the die and live again prophecy-fulfillment was the lightning incident in The Fires of Heaven, and not the hanging incident in The Shadow Rising. I was always sure it was the other way around. To paraphrase the Humblest Man on the Net: Who's this guy to tell me such things? He just wrote the books.

 

 

Interview: Jan 16th, 2003

 

COT Signing Report - Tim Kington (Paraphrased)

Tim Kington

 

My friend Josh and I had been talking about how Rand and Mat spent a week in Rhuidean, and so he asked how long Mat was hanging.

Robert Jordan

 

 

Long enough.

JOSH

 

Long enough for what?

ROBERT JORDAN

 

Long enough to be ALMOST dead.

[Morden]

 

Interview: Jan 16th, 2003

 

COT Signing Report - Tim Kington (Paraphrased)

Tim Kington

 

My friend Josh and I had been talking about how Rand and Mat spent a week in Rhuidean, and so he asked how long Mat was hanging.

Robert Jordan

 

 

Long enough.

JOSH

 

Long enough for what?

ROBERT JORDAN

 

Long enough to be ALMOST dead.

 

The long enough to be almost dead part makes enough sense, that could have been for days because of how fate is twisted around him and the other two.

 

Makes you wonder if someone will kill Rand in AMoL and just get balefired. job done, Rand has died and been revived. Just need to have Ny and a few others with Callandor ready to balefire anyone who kills him.

[Whizbang]

I don't think balefire will be in play in the LB, at least not to resurrect Rand. I think Nyn will revive him using a super-advanced Healing technique, possibly involving the bond with Elayne, Avi, and Min.

[Danjaman]

I agree with the topic, as I always thought that Rand destroying the world would have been the "complete" victory, as stated in Sha'rah. IIRC, Moridin mused that a player could only reach a decisive victory if they held the fisher - and VoG, I think, was the closest the Shadow got to controlling the Dragon.

[Amandera]

I don't think balefire will be in play in the LB, at least not to resurrect Rand. I think Nyn will revive him using a super-advanced Healing technique, possibly involving the bond with Elayne, Avi, and Min.

Perhaps not for resurrection -if there will be a resurrection- but balefire will be used for something important I think. Rand shows it to Jahar 'who draws it out shall follow after' Narishma and Nynaeve says she will use it if needed. Those have to be foreshadowing to something.

[Dagon Thyne]

Rand al Thor, pre GoV, almost completed the dark ones task for him by destroying the pattern. That's the dark ones goal, after all. And I think that the light covering rqnds brain protecting him from the darkness is the light incarnate. After all, even the forsaken talk about how there has never been someone spun from the wheel specifically till him. Therefore, VoG was the opening round of the last battle, and The light won. I think that is where rand first "dies" . It's my first time be gentle lol

 

I don't think the DO wants to destroy the Pattern. I think he simply destroys the world so the Creator can make it anew. The DO and Creator are two halves of the same being. One of Creation, and one of Destruction. They are nature itself.

 

As for Rand "Dying", I think that has to do with his link to Moridin. Rand's lifeforce, his very soul, is link to that of Moridin. If Rand kills Moridin, Rand kills the part of himself that is linked with him. I call it the Harry Potter Effect, in that the Harry Potter books end with him being "killed", but not actually dying.