Chapter 2: Plot Specific

[Barid Bel Medar]

Looking at the discussion on the other thread, it is dominated by the reactions to the quality and what-not.

 

To avoid a messy/disoriented thread discussion, I have created this to be purely plot specific discussion. The effects and theories of the possible outcomes from what has happened in Chapter 2.

 

Let's leave the quality or plausibility of the scenario to the other threads dedicated to it and keep this speculation and theorizing if we can thanks.

 

So, we have several new pieces of plot advancement happen.

 

Pevera/Androl dual bonding - added effects? What's so special about it?

 

Linking - Will Androl be able to weave a Gateway now? What will happen now after the disastrous results of the first linking?

 

Weilyn's Back - Does this confirm Logain is indeed in Taim's hands. Is he already turned? Will they stage a rescue? Is it a lie, and Logain is still being hunted? What will happen to Naalam, Canler and Emarin? They are currently out and about. Where is Sandomere?

 

 

Aviendha - Her plans for meeting Rand (talking about Aiel future here) Will the 3 bonded to him meeting up beforehand be important? Will Aviendha be involved in a sneak trip into Caemlyn?

 

Elayne - What will she do? Will she stick to her guns and stay for the meeting? Will something come up to pull her away? What will she do to the poor Trollocs when they come out of Caemlyn? Will she try and destroy the Waygate? What will happen? What's the go with her being able to channel consistently now, how will this effect her role?

 

 

Just a few points to get things rolling. Go for it.

[Rufae]

Pevera/Androl dual bonding - added effects? What's so special about it?

 

It appears that the dual bond is even more intimate than the single bond. Pevara appeared to be able to sense Androl's thoughts and even understand them to a degree. It also appeared that Pevara was able to see Androl's memories. She said that his whole life passed in front of her in a few seconds. I think this will be the bridge between the two towers and they will become a voice of unity to both.

 

Weilyn's Back - Does this confirm Logain is indeed in Taim's hands. Is he already turned? Will they stage a rescue?

 

I think he is a ploy. Logain is coming back to spring a trap on Taim and start the bloodbath.

 

 

Aviendha - Her plans for meeting Rand (talking about Aiel future here)

 

It's obvious that this is where her conception of her "4-babies" occurs. It really is the last chance she would have before he goes to SG. This must be the Barry White moment that BS mentioned.

 

AAs for the 4 babies, I think Avi will have twins and Elayne has twins. Elayne will die and do some sort of bonding between her children and Avi thereby making Avi the mother of 4. IMHO.

[Ataxia]

Thanks for the thread. Glad I wasnt the only one who thought the same thing.

 

Anyways, the double bonding was neat. I'm surprised it hasn't happened already considering that both people can channel. I like the relationship being built between Androl and Pevara. It will be interesting to see how the Logain situation plays out. I think people were expecting Logain to show up guns a blazing and now that its obvious it wont occur that way. A rescue and retreat seems more likely. If they are in a circle, they wont have much of a problem with the guards.

 

I'm glad to see Elayne is becoming something other then useless. Her accepting the city is lost and not rushing into a fight is a nice change from her rushing into things. I think Elayne was too distracted to notice Avi come in.

 

Cant wait to see this book unfold. Calm before the storm.

[herid]

 

Linking - Will Androl be able to weave a Gateway now? What will happen now after the disastrous results of the first linking?

This was often suggested before but I think it's even more obvious now that Androl will manage to make a gateway linked with Pevara. the failed first attempt is just tension building.

Weilyn's Back - Does this confirm Logain is indeed in Taim's hands. Is he already turned? Will they stage a rescue? Is it a lie, and Logain is still being hunted? What will happen to Naalam, Canler and Emarin? They are currently out and about. Where is Sandomere?

 

I'm pretty sure this is just a lie like all those before. Psycho warfare. But It does mean that the confrontation between Taim's and Androl's groups is just about to start.

[yoniy0]

Well I for one am fairly certain Logain is a hostage. That would explain his absence, whereas nothing else seems plausible.

 

As for the rest, nothing much happened with Aviendha and Elayne -- both are exactly where they were at the end of chapter 1.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Well I for one am fairly certain Logain is a hostage. That would explain his absence, whereas nothing else seems plausible.

 

 

Indeed, I can't see him allowing Weilyn and Kurin to be turned just to spring a trap. He would unleash all hell on Taim. Or would go to Rand with his "evidence", which he hasn't done for 2 weeks after Mezar's turning. He is in a compromised position for certain.

[Rufae]

Anyone finding significance that Logain's reappearance will be on the same day as the FOM meeting and the breaking of the seals?

[Barid Bel Medar]

Anyone finding significance that Logain's reappearance will be on the same day as the FOM meeting and the breaking of the seals?

 

Actually, the Black Tower is a fair bit behind the FoM arc.

 

INTERVIEW: 2011

Twitter 2011 (WoT) (Verbatim)

 

DAVE AINAIRE

The time warp that Tam al'Thor went through in Towers of Midnight was a bit disconcerting (time sync between chapters and different threads). Are you at liberty to say whether there will be any similar issues with plot lines in A Memory of Light?

 

PETER AHLSTROM

People are pretty much all caught up with each other at the end of Towers of Midnight, so it shouldn't be a problem. Mat is like three days behind. Black Tower may be further behind. But I doubt there will be any characters who seem to be in two places at the same time.

 

 

 

 

INTERVIEW: Nov 8th, 2010

TOM Signing Report - Sarayne (Paraphrased)

 

QUESTION

Are all the time lines caught up?

 

BRANDON SANDERSON

The Black Tower is still behind.

 

[csarmi]

Why wouldn't Taim turn Logain first thing, if he had him?

[Barid Bel Medar]

why wouldn't Semirhage travel straight to Shayol Ghul? Arrogance, torture, cruelty. Taim likely wants to completely destroy Logain before turning him.

[csarmi]

yes but so slowly?

same with the BT

[yoniy0]

Why are Androl and co. still alive? That's inexcusable right there, so I don't pay too much mind to the logic behind keeping Logain for this long but turning Mezar and what's-his-face first. Perhaps they just figure nothing at all can go wrong for them, so they're taking their time and having fun.

[Bellygod0607]

Logain.... Where are you!

[Rufae]

Maybe they think they already have won, so why rush?

 

There may be some apprehension with the Salidar Aes Sedai camp which has been left outside the walls. That could also be keeping them on the down low.

[Heronz]

Pevera/Androl my new fave 2nd couple (after Rand/Min).

 

also....after hearing the audio, elayne's voice reader make her sound too old/manly/deep =T.

[Wool-headed lummox]

What the hell are those Salidar Aes Sedai doing waiting outside the walls this whole time? Shouldn't Taim have seized and Turned the lot of them by now? Shouldn't someone from the White Tower have Gatewayed and checked up on them, told them there isn't a division any longer? Aren't they tired of waiting? And why hasn't Pevara been Turned? What is Taim waiting for?

[Treebeard]

it is obvious that Logian is´t turned , is has found a way to secure himself, Mr L will come into the BT and just before the time of the great submission to Taim he smash the whole lot of DA ( dark Ashaman) . it will be dreadful of course and Androl will help Pevara to survive but in doing so he will die ( I hope and believe) killing maybe her to ( in my dreams). Logian will open the gate and all the sisters out there will join the fray and render the black tower in fire and blood , yheea the prophesy is fulfilled. Or another waty the sisters will come in is that Androl and Pevara now can open a gateway because they are two and Androl have superpowers ( his abnormal strength in making gateways with is not counted in the dreams spike - dose making it obsolete ) . I am not satirical this is my earnest conviction even i hope not that it will come to pass - as it will mean a fatal blow to the book , of course it can get better but if the poor standard of the two first chapters will continue, well then we have a problem...

[Valley of Death]

when is the meeting at FoM like chapter 10?? i thought it was gonna be the first or second chapter

[Rufae]

Anyone think that Logain is actually hiding out with the Salidar Aes Sedai? That's why they are holding still? He may be cooking up something with them to overthrow Taim.

[What's a Seawolf?]

Loved the chapter.

 

Was shocked to see the bit about Logain, no idea if it's true or not. My general assumption is Logain has to remain a good guy because of Min's viewing, but I do love the idea of his glory being for the shadow. To be honest I've always thought Logain was too minor of a character to have a big role in the last book and especially in the ending, so I can see it either way. (He's certainly popular in fandom but to most readers I don't think he's anything more than a footnote. It would certainly be a nice red herring from RJ to hardcore fans to have Logain turn out evil.)

 

The forced bonding in the Pevara scene reminded me of the great dislike I have for the reds. Kinda hoping she doesn't make it. I think at least her or Androl don't survive, possibly both. One dying could be a touching 'reason to reunite the two towers' sort of scene, realizing the other side isn't all that bad after all, along with some last words to push them on.

 

Laughed at the Avi and Elayne scene, thought it was very well done and a nice touch.

 

AAs for the 4 babies, I think Avi will have twins and Elayne has twins. Elayne will die and do some sort of bonding between her children and Avi thereby making Avi the mother of 4. IMHO.

 

Glad I'm not the only one who thought of this. I'm not sure if I still believe it, but that was exactly my first thought (minus the bonding) when Min gave her viewing of Avi having 4 kids that seemed odd somehow. Two being Avi's, the other two being Elayne's would certainly fit.

 

 

As an aside, this is the first audio book I've ever listened to, and find in funny how many names I've been mispronouncing all these years.

[b3arz3rg3r]

Hmm, I'm of two minds on the Androl and Pevara scene. I liked what I heard, despite the minor glitch on the linking issue, but I question the timing of it. This is the final book and this was a rather domestic scene which I believe should have found a place in an earlier book. The dual bonding sounds interesting I wonder what kind of side effects this amplified bond will have. We've got increased awareness to the point of limited mindreading, the ability to sense the source in the other without linking. An interesting side effect would be if the oaths actually affected the bondpartner. If all those Asha'man suddenly found themselves unable to lie or to use the OP as a weapon without feeling in danger.

 

As a side note, I wonder if dual bonding may become a new marriage custom in the future even among the non-channellers. They could go to an Asha'man and Aes Sedai couple to bind them to each other.

 

I'm sure BS wanted to make Avi's part super aielsy, but really isn't Aviendha supposed to be a grown up now that she has become a WO? Creeping through the grass like a commando for absolutely no good reason really made me roll my eyes as I listen to it. Atleast she didn't decide to smear mud into her face for camouflage.

 

AAs for the 4 babies, I think Avi will have twins and Elayne has twins. Elayne will die and do some sort of bonding between her children and Avi thereby making Avi the mother of 4. IMHO.

 

Glad I'm not the only one who thought of this. I'm not sure if I still believe it, but that was exactly my first thought (minus the bonding) when Min gave her viewing of Avi having 4 kids that seemed odd somehow. Two being Avi's, the other two being Elayne's would certainly fit.

 

And just how exactly is that supposed to work? Physically I mean. Min said Avi was going to have four kids at once and Elayne is four or five months pregnant I believe is Aviendha supposed to keep Elayne's twins in her womb for a total of 13 o14 months just so they can be born at the same time as her own twins? And how are they supposed to transplant two babies? And then what's with the continuity? We saw all four of Avi's children in her visions at Rhuidean. I know Avi intends to change the future, but I don't see how her plans for the Aiel have any affect on the number of her children.

[herid]

Well I for one am fairly certain Logain is a hostage. That would explain his absence, whereas nothing else seems plausible.

 

 

Indeed, I can't see him allowing Weilyn and Kurin to be turned just to spring a trap. He would unleash all hell on Taim. Or would go to Rand with his "evidence", which he hasn't done for 2 weeks after Mezar's turning. He is in a compromised position for certain.

there is certainly no question of Logain allowing Weilyn and Kurin to be turned by choice as a trap or for any other reason. And I'm sure he is in a compromised position. But it doesn't mean he is turned. he can be trapped and cornered just like his men in the Black Tower are. If Taim had him he would have trotted him out long ago. nobody has suggested any reasonable explanation of why he'd wait. and there are Min's viewing of Logain and glory to consider. A number of people are suggesting that this might be glory for the shadow but the mere notion sounds completely preposterous to me. Besides, Min's viewings have consistent color schemes. In particular, things related to deeds of the shadow are always dark. With Logain it's "a flaring halo around his head, radiant in gold and blue" (TSR, ch 17). No way that can mean glory for the shadow.

The only way I see Logain possibly being turned if he is somehow turned back to the Light later and gets his glory then. But there is nothing to suggest that this is even possible so I doubt this is what's coming.

[yoniy0]

Besides, Min's viewings have consistent color schemes. In particular, things related to deeds of the shadow are always dark. With Logain it's "a flaring halo around his head, radiant in gold and blue" (TSR, ch 17). No way that can mean glory for the shadow.

I don't think that it is, but let's not forget Sheriam's silver-golden halo as well.

[herid]

I did remember about it actually but it fits into what I said. Sheriam's halo refers to her being executed by Egwene which is not a deed of the shadow. If you look at all Min's viewing you'll see the color patterns.

[Luckers]

Anyone think that Logain is actually hiding out with the Salidar Aes Sedai? That's why they are holding still? He may be cooking up something with them to overthrow Taim.

 

I think its unlikely--the Rebels being outside the grounds was a retconn in the TofM postproduction to fix the issue of Nynaeve being able to reach Myrelle to transfer the bond. I think originally they were supposed to go the same way as the Reds.

 

I don't really think this... but maybe Logain's glory genuinely will come in serving the Shadow--or perhaps being the first to brought back from the Shadow to the Light.