how the Senchean beat the Aial (avienda vision) ???

[TyphoonBlade]

I agree with Mr Ares and Yosarian's points. Elric you're overestimating the Aiel. Circles are an advantage yes, but the one advantage doesn't counteract the other several advantages the Seanchan have.

[Mr Ares]

u HADN'T shown a cycle can be deflected.

u shown a cycle construct can be undone and i do admit it.

And you've not shown any evidence that this is a relevant distinction in terminology. Even if you can't deflect it, simply undo it. That's it. If a big circle weaves something, undo it. Anything a circle has can be undone. To insist that they can't deflect it, well, even if that is true, they don't need to, they can just undo it anyway.

 

the Senchean bewen much more ruthless then the Airl in Avi vision.

the Sanchean DID ATTACKEd Rhuidean , while the Aiel left Abu Dar (the new Senchean capitol) alone.

also the Senchean are much more vulnerable to Masive population base attackes then the Aiel who leave in separatewd clan (biggest cities are the size of small/modarate Randland cities while they outnumber any Randland Nation)

True, but the Aiel also have a much smaller population base to begin with - the loss of a hold is possibly as significant, or more, than the loss of a city would be to the Seanchan - and is far easier to achieve, as it is smaller, and the Seanchan can bring more firepower against it anyway. If they start trading lives one for one, the Seanchan win. They could possibly survive even if it was ten Seanchan to every Aiel. And surely the admission that the Seanchan are more ruthless undermines your initial point? You don't see how the Aiel could lose was your opening line. The Seanchan are far more numerous, better equipped, have a better resource base, and are waging a war of extermination while the Aiel are involved in an honourable conflict. Having nukes does you little good if you're not going to use them.

 

u totally ignore the over-centralize nature of Senchean society

I don't, I think you overstate it. The Seanchan won't collapse because a leader has been assassinated - you need to kill a lot of people and leave no clear successor, create a power vacuum. And even that might not do you good if elements at the front are still willing and able to prosecute the war while people struggle for power behind the lines.

 

and you grossly under-estimate the Effect of seeing an entire city go BOOM.

No, I don't. Blowing up a city won't win you the war. Not unless you can cripple their ability to wage war in doing so, which is unlikely. A fair few cities were bombed during the Second World War. What ended the war was not merely the destruction of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, it was Japan's ability to wage war already being crippled, coupled with the psychological effects of a weapon they couldn't fight. Neither is true of the Seanchan - you won't break them just by killing a city. You'll have to level several for the effect to become pronounced enough. And circles can be countered - what they do can be undone, shields can be placed over cities (which might not be enough to ensure the city survives, but could delay any attack on it to allow the Seanchan to react), circles can be killed. All your plan will do is kill a lot of Seanchan civilians before the end. Before the Aiel are consigned to history.

 

cycle are the better channeling technology , it silly as saying how can Kortez beet the vastly logistic superior Inca empire.

how can England beet the vastly logistic superior France / china (navel superiority)

You have not demonstrated the manifest superiority of circles, you've just stated that they are better over and over again. That's not engaging with the debate. The advantages of circles have been put forward and acknowledged. They can allow channelers who are too weak to do something as individuals to operate as a group - allowing more and larger Gateways to be formed than would otherwise be the case (less of a problem for the Seanchan as they have far more channelers to begin with). They allow for the strength of many to be combined with the precision of one. How is that an advantage in blowing up a city? Why is a circle of 72, which would be weaker than 72 individuals, better placed for such work than the individuals? If the circle creates a big, city destroying weave it can be undone. It will also attract attention, and it leaves only one person in the circle able to defend themselves, whereas individuals can all react to defend themselves. There's a bit more to the rise of the British Empire than just "we had a better navy". If you were to assert that the British Navy, historically, was like a nuke, and that therefore no nation on earth could hope to stand against us, well, I might think you were over-egging the pudding a bit. I would expect a far more reasoned argument than just "ships are the better technology". Stop asserting, and start debating. You continue to show no evidence for your points - I put forward a direct quote from the books. You haven't.

 

you also ignore the mentality -> Aiel -> life is a dream we all awake from is more fitting to an all out war.

to name a few minor pints

Given that the Aiel didn't prosecute an all-out war but the Seanchan did, I think that assertion is a little dubious. The Seanchan desire supremacy - they have been opposed, and so they will be merciless in ensuring that opposition is ended and their supremacy is established once more.

 

i dont deny Senchean have much more resource, but my MAIN point is the Senchean solo channeler attacks CAN be defended against, while a cycle attack CANT. (and again -> undoing a construct is NOT the same as deflecting a direct weave that come toward you)

True, deflecting and undoing are not the same thing - deflecting moves it somewhere else, undoing stops it. So your assertion that a less effective tactic wouldn't work, while a more effective one will, and you have conceded that it will, is pointless. A circle can be defended against. You have not shown that to be untrue. Your main point is wrong.

[Yosarian]

The biggest weakness of a circle is that there is only one person in charge of it, which means that it's limited by how many flows she can handle at one time and by her own personal attention. That came up in the big battle scene during the cleansing of saidin.

 

Yes, a circle of thirteen can wield incredible power, which is awesome if you want to, say, shield someone. Howverer, there is still just one mind in control, which limits how many things it can do at once. If a circle of thirteen is attacked from all directions at once by people using the one power as a weapon trying to kill them, they're probably not going to hold off all the attackers. And there are a lot more damne then wise ones (especally since all the shaido wise ones are now damne.)

[Suttree]

The biggest weakness of a circle is that there is only one person in charge of it, which means that it's limited by how many flows she can handle at one time and by her own personal attention. That came up in the big battle scene during the cleansing of saidin.

 

This. Again, it was also pointed out as a flaw by Cads in the fog scene when she advised them not to link.

[Entreri]

The White Tower's foolish oaths put them at a large disadvantage against the Seanchan.

 

The Black Tower seemed to have gone soft, weak and isolationist after the LB. Not the same people that captured the likes of Alivia et al.

 

Once the Aiel involved the soft wetlanders the war was lost. The Aiel were doing ok by themselves, stalemate for decades.

[elric]

sorry for the postpond respond but hadnt had time to search for linking quotes earlier.

 

"

If they are not linked, no two channelers can combine their flows to work on the same weave. The leader of a link is able to do so, directing multiple flows of great power at a single weave, allowing for weaves that are impossible or extremely difficult for individual channelers.If they are not linked, no two channelers can combine their flows to work on the same weave. The leader of a link is able to do so, directing multiple flows of great power at a single weave, allowing for weaves that are impossible or extremely difficult for individual channelers.

"

from wot.vikia..com

 

that is why a circle is uncountered.

solo channelers cant match the power of a circle weave and are overhelemed.

 

it like a circle weave is a bulldozer -> yup 100 ppl with shovels can undo the work a buldozer do, but can they stand in front of it and stop it ???

 

that the diffrence between undoing and countering.

 

i agrea that in Avi Vision the Senchean are more ruthless, that 1 of the things that bug me.

the vision Aiel are arrogents, holding back to the point of stupidity and unable to adept.

 

which is in contracst (sp?) to the Aiel of the present, who are portraid as adaptable hard and when deemed neccessery very ruthless.

 

and after the Massacare Semi did in the Royal family -> u just need to kill Tuon to create a leadership vacum , and even given several years to breed i douth the Senchean royal Blood will be numerous ,and i also douth promoting ppl into HIGH /replacing monarch roles since it literally invitation to be assasinated by them.

[Suttree]

sorry for the postpond respond but hadnt had time to search for linking quotes earlier.

 

"

If they are not linked, no two channelers can combine their flows to work on the same weave. The leader of a link is able to do so, directing multiple flows of great power at a single weave, allowing for weaves that are impossible or extremely difficult for individual channelers.If they are not linked, no two channelers can combine their flows to work on the same weave. The leader of a link is able to do so, directing multiple flows of great power at a single weave, allowing for weaves that are impossible or extremely difficult for individual channelers.

"

from wot.vikia..com

 

WoT Wiki is not an accepted source. Far too many guesses and assumptions there Elric.

[elric]

not arguing it Sult :)

 

but i happen to fully agrea with this speicific notion/theory/fact/u name it as u please :)

 

that is how i always percieve solo vs linking channeling and the base behind my claim (which i did before i even known this site exist) that cycle cant be countered.

 

altough i must agrea that they explained it much more elequently then me and i believe in giving credit where credit is due :)

[Mr Ares]

sorry for the postpond respond but hadnt had time to search for linking quotes earlier.

 

"

If they are not linked, no two channelers can combine their flows to work on the same weave. The leader of a link is able to do so, directing multiple flows of great power at a single weave, allowing for weaves that are impossible or extremely difficult for individual channelers.If they are not linked, no two channelers can combine their flows to work on the same weave. The leader of a link is able to do so, directing multiple flows of great power at a single weave, allowing for weaves that are impossible or extremely difficult for individual channelers.

"

from wot.vikia..com

 

that is why a circle is uncountered.

solo channelers cant match the power of a circle weave and are overhelemed.

That's a quote that doesn't support your position, from an unreliable source.

 

it like a circle weave is a bulldozer -> yup 100 ppl with shovels can undo the work a buldozer do, but can they stand in front of it and stop it ???

 

that the diffrence between undoing and countering.

It's like you're making an analogy, and everyone else is telling you your analogy is wrong. And one person with a shovel can undo the work of the bulldozer, while the bulldozer is doing in, in a way that could damage or destroy the bulldozer - that's the counter analogy, given the facts from the books. You might not be able to stand in front of it and stop it - but you can stand just to the side and completely wreck it. If a circle creates a big, city destroying weave, and a single sul'dam/damane pair comes up behind them and just cuts a couple of threads in that weave causing the whole thing to collapse before the city is destroyed, then two people have stopped 72. And the Seanchan have more people anyway. If you want another analogy, the plane carrying the nuke can be shot down before it reaches the target - so nothing gets nuked, and the plane's crew end up dead or captured. Even if their is nothing you can do once the bomb has left the bomb bay, there is something you can do beforehand. You still persist in presenting an idea of links as being something other than what the text presents them as, and refuse to listen to the counter-arguments.

 

and after the Massacare Semi did in the Royal family -> u just need to kill Tuon to create a leadership vacum , and even given several years to breed i douth the Senchean royal Blood will be numerous ,and i also douth promoting ppl into HIGH /replacing monarch roles since it literally invitation to be assasinated by them.

Except there are other high ranking Seanchan nobles - if one, such as Galgan, had an unquestioned supremacy, he could seize control of the Return. So then you have to assassinate him, then the next in line, then the next in line. It's not just one assassination, it's a whole string of them - and if the Seanchan fragment, then unless you stop them attacking you, it just means that you have to deal with multiple factions at once. So you have to carry out even more assassinations. The Seanchan aren't vulnerable to someone sweeping in and killing one guy, but they are to a strategy that involves persistently killing anyone and everyone in a position of authority - but then, who isn't? Kill every clan chief, capture every Wise One, how long do you think the Aiel will be able to maintain a co-ordinated response for? So why don't the Seanhcan do it back to the Aiel?

[Morden]

Except there are other high ranking Seanchan nobles - if one, such as Galgan, had an unquestioned supremacy, he could seize control of the Return. So then you have to assassinate him, then the next in line, then the next in line. It's not just one assassination, it's a whole string of them - and if the Seanchan fragment, then unless you stop them attacking you, it just means that you have to deal with multiple factions at once. So you have to carry out even more assassinations. The Seanchan aren't vulnerable to someone sweeping in and killing one guy, but they are to a strategy that involves persistently killing anyone and everyone in a position of authority - but then, who isn't? Kill every clan chief, capture every Wise One, how long do you think the Aiel will be able to maintain a co-ordinated response for? So why don't the Seanhcan do it back to the Aiel?

 

I think your right and your wrong there. The Seanchan Empire is about dynastic struggle gone to an extreme. Brothers and sisters try to kill each other to secure their own succession. If there was no clear line of succession then it would cause infighting by those who wanted the top seat.

 

You wouldnt need to kill all of the most powerful, merely 2 or 3, the Seanchan would handle the rest while they fought for surpremacy. Galgan for example would have first needed to subjugate all of the Seanchan Empire under his reign, while trying to stop his competitors from killing him and his support base. Whilst fighting a war this is not a good thing. Because to secure your reign you need the army.

 

What happens if one of those sides agrees to work with the Aiel? you may not think it likely, but I think that if a smaller power within the Seanchan wanted to take over then they might well agree to work with the Aiel in order to win.

[elric]

with all due respect Demandred quote dont support your position as well.

 

the situation was like that:

 

Rand and Nyn creatted a CONSTRUCT and their attention was on pushing the entire Saidin trough it.

Demandred (an AoL forsaken) tought he can break the UNATTENDED construct.

 

that NOT the same as seeing mountain size Fireball coming your way.

 

if all u need is to sidestep and deflect and the power behind the weave dont count why Ispen and the 2nd black link against Nyn.

they clearly been more experienced then her and according to your logic all they needed was to stay unlink sidestep and collapse her weave and beat her... yet they choose to link.

 

Morden

couldnt say it better -> +1

[MasterAblar]

if all u need is to sidestep and deflect and the power behind the weave dont count why Ispen and the 2nd black link against Nyn.

they clearly been more experienced then her and according to your logic all they needed was to stay unlink sidestep and collapse her weave and beat her... yet they choose to link.

 

The usefullness of a circle depends on the situation. Here they were in a presumably narrow hallway facing an extremely powerful channeller. Joining their strength was the best way to counter Nyneave's since they couldn't attack her from two sides. As it is Nyneave had both of them in her field of vision and could have countered and taken both of them out at once. Since the location was to Nyneave's advantage they tried to minimize that as much as possible by taking away her advantage in strength and relying on their experience.

[MountaineerWV]

I agree with what Morden touched on.

 

It is difficult to make an ironclad argument for or against the Seanchan Empire. The biggest contradiction I see in the Seanchan is how vicious and the amount of in fighting at the highest levels. Brother against sister, noble against royalty, military officer against the nobility. Yet there is still cohesiveness. An Empire like that (especially with genetic and cultural diversity) would not survive. It would be crippled by revolts and rebellions.

[Suttree]

Yet there is still cohesiveness. An Empire like that (especially with genetic and cultural diversity) would not survive. It would be crippled by revolts and rebellions.

 

Well we know it hasn't been crippled but revolts and rebellions are still numerous in Seanchan. The concept that everyone is happy and content with their place in the empire is false. Karede talks of putting down "numerous" revolts in his time with the DW guards and the Seeker that comes upon Avi and Rand when they travelled to Seanchan discusses "sedition" in that district.

[elric]

Sult

 

true that in the PAST the empire wasnt crippled.

but i douth that they ever faced a situation where ALL the royal dynasty save 1, died abruptly.

 

Master Ablar

the situation i describe is:

a more then 13 cycle (as big as needed) sit somewhere -> open a gate (ate open for it by another chaneeler..) and send a city destructing wave trough the gate to TOTAL ANAHILATING the city, with every soul (including channelers) in it.

that the scenario i claim cant be countered, couse even if the incoming weave will be noticed -> i dont c how it can be stoped-> city saved.

[Morden]

Not to mention disrupting a weave takes a great deal of skill and power. 5 Seperate channelers facing 5 equally powerful channelers linked.

 

The Individual women hold more power.. Assuming the Circle doesnt hold an Angrael or Sa'angrael. Then you still have say 3x more Saidar than each of those women can hold.

 

Possible? yeah its more than possible but Sul'dam are aggressive. I dont remember one instance in the books where they dont just throw every ounce of power at the aggressor.

 

Just because something is possible doesnt make it likely.

 

And just to throw another bone into the machine. A damane on its own can do nothing. Not a damned thing. Sul'dam generally treat them like dogs, leaving them in their Kennels when they are not on patrol/guard duty. So unless the Sul'dam decide to start bedding down with the Damane that will not happen. Afterall you cannot treat people like dirt if you have to spend a lot of time living their life. To treat someone as a slave is one thing, but to do so while you can keep yourself distant thinking of them as less than you... If you take that away, it would undermine the system to a large degree, not to mention the fact that it would still take time to respond to any attack.

 

 

You could cripple Ebou Dar for example by taking a massive circle on a ship to say 10miles off the coast, at say 3am, Cause a highly focused Tsunami using air & water with speeds of 100mph. They would have minutes at best, and by the time they could actually see... well it would be too late. They couldnt gateway out to see afterall. a Raken would take precious minutes to arrange and find out, by the time it got back everyone would be dead. And most of the sul'dam/Damane would be asleep.

 

Fireballs wouldnt work against it. Earth errupting wouldnt either. They might try to use air/water to dissapate it... but then you arrive at the real disadvantage the seanchan have. Unless they are using former Aes Sedai/Windfinders then they will lack people with skill/practice at using air/water defensively and intelligently, and would they even think intelligently any longer? the treatment of Damane almost cripples them as a thinking being.

 

Also Dumai's Wells also gives us a good indication of a circle's defences against a superior foe. In the Book it doesnt state how many channeling wise ones the Shaido had. But when Perrin & co + Seanchan face them later we find out it was in the hundreds. If those Channelers were the ones facing Galina and the other 32 Aes Sedai... Well you know that 33 channelers, some linked some not, held up reasonably well against a significantly numerous foe. They couldnt have won, but they were not swatted like 33 individual channelers would be.

[TristanWebb]

It is a huge assumption to say that 33 unlinked would be swatted away when the asha'man suffered so little casualties.

[Mr Ares]

Except there are other high ranking Seanchan nobles - if one, such as Galgan, had an unquestioned supremacy, he could seize control of the Return. So then you have to assassinate him, then the next in line, then the next in line. It's not just one assassination, it's a whole string of them - and if the Seanchan fragment, then unless you stop them attacking you, it just means that you have to deal with multiple factions at once. So you have to carry out even more assassinations. The Seanchan aren't vulnerable to someone sweeping in and killing one guy, but they are to a strategy that involves persistently killing anyone and everyone in a position of authority - but then, who isn't? Kill every clan chief, capture every Wise One, how long do you think the Aiel will be able to maintain a co-ordinated response for? So why don't the Seanhcan do it back to the Aiel?

 

I think your right and your wrong there. The Seanchan Empire is about dynastic struggle gone to an extreme. Brothers and sisters try to kill each other to secure their own succession. If there was no clear line of succession then it would cause infighting by those who wanted the top seat.

 

You wouldnt need to kill all of the most powerful, merely 2 or 3, the Seanchan would handle the rest while they fought for surpremacy. Galgan for example would have first needed to subjugate all of the Seanchan Empire under his reign, while trying to stop his competitors from killing him and his support base. Whilst fighting a war this is not a good thing. Because to secure your reign you need the army.

Galgan has supremacy with the forces of the Corenne. Even if he died, if there was someone able to gain sufficient support in a short space of time, then things won't deteriorate. Just because someone wants the top seat, doesn't mean they are in a position to get it - it makes sense to support someone who is much more powerful than you if they look to be successful, as it can help put you in a position of authority. People can bide their time, work their way up - support you today, betray you tomorrow. Given that the Corenne is operating largely separately from the rest of the Empire, I don't think there is any urgent need to subjugate the rest of the Empire - merely use the resources available. To kill two or three people might bring about the desired results, but it would have to be the right two or three - I don't think it's particularly likely. And it might take time for the situation to deteriorate enough to be a significant advantage to the Aiel. And this is a military operation - the military tend to have a clear chain of command. In other words, after taking out Tuon, you have to massacre the Seanchan officer corps. It's certainly not an easy way to victory. It relies on anyone with sufficient authority to keep things ticking over being killed, a triumph of opportunism over survival instinct, and a refusal to accept that dealing with the people who keep assassinating your leaders are a more pressing problem than who is to be leader next. It could work, but I wouldn't rely on it. Someone with enough sense and authority to get the senior generals (and possibly civil officials) to work as a team with no single leader during the time of crisis - to get them to delay the power struggle - could cripple the strategy.

 

with all due respect Demandred quote dont support your position as well.

 

the situation was like that:

 

Rand and Nyn creatted a CONSTRUCT and their attention was on pushing the entire Saidin trough it.

Demandred (an AoL forsaken) tought he can break the UNATTENDED construct.

Except it wasn't unattended. They were holding those weaves - functionally, it's not all that different from a massive fireball. It just takes longer. And you still insist on inventing arbitrary terms. What is the functional difference between a "construct" and any other sort of non-tied off weave? The books don't describe any, nor does RJ. You haven't shown that what Demandred was planning would fail to work if it was a big fireball Rand has woven. No references, no quotes, not even much by way of reasoning - just assertions. Oh, but this is a construct. It can be undone, but not deflected. You would need to deflect a city destroying weave, because they aren't constructs so they can't be undone. So circles are like nukes, which mean you automatically win, because it's a strategic weapon.

 

that NOT the same as seeing mountain size Fireball coming your way.

Besides fireballs being scarier, what's the difference?

 

if all u need is to sidestep and deflect and the power behind the weave dont count why Ispen and the 2nd black link against Nyn.

Well, if I had a reference I could check, and then I could tell you.

[Morden]

Galgan has supremacy with the forces of the Corenne. Even if he died, if there was someone able to gain sufficient support in a short space of time, then things won't deteriorate. Just because someone wants the top seat, doesn't mean they are in a position to get it - it makes sense to support someone who is much more powerful than you if they look to be successful, as it can help put you in a position of authority. People can bide their time, work their way up - support you today, betray you tomorrow. Given that the Corenne is operating largely separately from the rest of the Empire, I don't think there is any urgent need to subjugate the rest of the Empire - merely use the resources available. To kill two or three people might bring about the desired results, but it would have to be the right two or three - I don't think it's particularly likely. And it might take time for the situation to deteriorate enough to be a significant advantage to the Aiel. And this is a military operation - the military tend to have a clear chain of command. In other words, after taking out Tuon, you have to massacre the Seanchan officer corps. It's certainly not an easy way to victory. It relies on anyone with sufficient authority to keep things ticking over being killed, a triumph of opportunism over survival instinct, and a refusal to accept that dealing with the people who keep assassinating your leaders are a more pressing problem than who is to be leader next. It could work, but I wouldn't rely on it. Someone with enough sense and authority to get the senior generals (and possibly civil officials) to work as a team with no single leader during the time of crisis - to get them to delay the power struggle - could cripple the strategy.

 

The Corenne would not be enough to conquer Randland. Even if it had 500,000 troops it would not be enough. Add in say 1,000 Damane and probably around 5,000 Sul'dam. Personally I think they have perhaps 250,000 soldiers tops(+ Native badly trained and cowardly troops) and probably around the 1k mark for Damane, because they are so rare. My Reasoning for this is simple logistics. They crossed an Ocean with soldiers, farmers and commonfolk. If say for instance their ships were of a similar size to a Galleon, then it would likely not be able to hold more than 6-800 people at maximum. And that would be a very big ship for a wooden hull... And almost half of that would be crew... So you would need the better part of 1,000 very large ships to transport anything over 1/2 million people.

 

The battle takes place in the future so it would most likely be a unified Empire. Which gives much greater credence to the possibility that a civil war could be sparked off by taking out the top dogs. Those in Randland would likely think similarly to Suroth in that she could take over the Seanchan on this side of the Ocean.

[Morden]

It is a huge assumption to say that 33 unlinked would be swatted away when the asha'man suffered so little casualties.

 

They turned up, unleashed so much hell and ruin totally unexpectedly. At a time when people didnt really believe the Black Tower was actually training any men who could channel. That would be enough to stand everyone on their heads.

 

But the 33 AS held off against hundreds of wise ones lobbing fire at them. Even the female channelers on Rands side were amazed and stated they had never seen so many weaves.

[elric]

Mr Ares

 

u think Galagen is the only one who command an Army in the Sanchean empire ?

dont u think they have local Governor with certain Autonamy ?

and if the central Goverment is destroyed (as Semy actually did) how u think it affect the Empire ?

the Loyalty as far we seen is tied to the EMPRESS and her blood line , without is the empire can split into separeted Kingdoms same as what happend to Howking Empire.

 

i sorry i cant provide quotes but i have PAPER books (who are translated from english) and with all due respect to u and our debate i have NO intention to start DLing books just to save you the time to check the scene yourself :)

(the only PDF i have is GTS and ToM and when it related i do provide quotes from this 2)

 

in the Cleansinf scene Aginor was attacked by a HUGE fireball (who was strong enough to evaporate the head of an entire hill) and guess what -> the genius Forsaken , didnt side step, didnt deflect, didnt figure a way to undone the MUCH weaker weave (the the cleansing weave) he DIED.

 

Morden

great example.

let me try another analogy to describe the diffrence:

building an Ice statue and throwing an ice ball are both playing in Ice.

but it much diffrent issue to dirupt the statue making then to distrupt the iceball flying at u. (espaicelly if that ice ball is several ton in size)

[MasterAblar]

Master Ablar

the situation i describe is:

a more then 13 cycle (as big as needed) sit somewhere -> open a gate (ate open for it by another chaneeler..) and send a city destructing wave trough the gate to TOTAL ANAHILATING the city, with every soul (including channelers) in it.

that the scenario i claim cant be countered, couse even if the incoming weave will be noticed -> i dont c how it can be stoped-> city saved.

 

But a circle doesn't give you any advantage here. It's the suprise attack that gives the advantage. Sure a circles will give you a bigger fireball, but an angreal or sangreal will do that to. If nothing else you can have 13 individuals send out weaves on their own. The total strength of a circle is less than that of the sum of the individual channellers.

 

While the attack from the circle could not be countered, neither could the individual ones, because no one would be able to react on time. If someone could react on time I see no reason why they wouldn't be able to block the huge fireball just the same as the smaller ones. A shield of air should work just as efficient either way.

[Suttree]

But the 33 AS held off against hundreds of wise ones lobbing fire at them. Even the female channelers on Rands side were amazed and stated they had never seen so many weaves.

 

Not to mention they held off against the Ashaman as well for a short time(although admittedly it's hard to gage how long) before Rand started picking them off...

[MountaineerWV]

Yet there is still cohesiveness. An Empire like that (especially with genetic and cultural diversity) would not survive. It would be crippled by revolts and rebellions.

 

Well we know it hasn't been crippled but revolts and rebellions are still numerous in Seanchan. The concept that everyone is happy and content with their place in the empire is false. Karede talks of putting down "numerous" revolts in his time with the DW guards and the Seeker that comes upon Avi and Rand when they travelled to Seanchan discusses "sedition" in that district.

 

That's what I'm pointing out. I don't think we can make accurate judgments of the Seanchan since we would be making those judgments using what we know of real world empires. The Seanchan Empire enjoys the benefits of the different types of governments...but very few of the draw backs. It's like the have the industriousness of a capitalistic economy, the welfare of a socialist gov't, and the authority of a communist gov't. They are directed by the Empresses....yet she trusts her military and nobility to think on their own with large armies very far away from the flag pole.

[elric]

Master Ablar

 

i use circle becouse Sanchean CANT link (the Adam prevent it).

so even if they be prepared they cant create a strong enough defence to block the power of a circle.

 

since solo channelers cant streangthen the same weave the weave of the circle will simply overwhelm the solo defences

also a circle can allow u to destroy a city in 1 shot preventing or atleast limiting the option the secure away importent leaders or the city channelers.