Lack of communication between characters.

[mwayneknight]

Hello everyone, is it just me or does anyone else get irritated with the lack of communication between the characters(i know it makes better story but still)

 

For example, I am re-reading Winters Heart, and Mat is still in Ebou Dar, with of course Suroth being there. Now the three musketeers(Elayne, Nyneave, and Egwene), know that Suroth is a darkfriend, or at least working with darkfriends, and they never mention it to anyone(not sure if this is due because they dont see the seanchean again or what), but at least if Mat knew he could be careful..

 

And another example if im not mistaken which I could be cause I dont have the book on me, Suroth sets up a meeting with Tuon and Rand(im pretty sure when Logain comes back he either talked to Suroth or mentions she is setting it up, sorry for lack of exact knowledge). If Rand knew she was a darkfriend could have been even more careful then he already was.

 

What other examples to people remember of this lack of communication happen and does it irritate anyone else?

 

Thanks

[Sid]

It's literally everywhere, and yes.

 

One example from the other direction is when Moridin finally showed the other Forsaken images of Mat and Perrin at one of their meetings, Semirhage recognizes Mat from the time they were both in the Terasin Palace together, mentioning that if she had that information earlier they might have taken care of some problems.

 

Usually, they have a reason for withholding information, whether it's to keep another character's secret, or they just don't have any reason to bring certain things up. In the case of the wondergirls and Suroth, they only met the once, and only Egwene spoke to her at all. I suppose they would put together that she was a DF since she dealt with Liandrin, but her being Seanchan was probably nearly the same as being a DF to them. They certainly don't like talking about any time when they were made to look foolish, were captured, or failed in any way to Mat. With Rand, they never even had a chance to talk to him after Falme before they left for the Tower with Verin and the Horn, and by that time the Seanchan were chased away and 'gone'. There are tons of 'near-misses' in the series where a day or two here or there could make the entire story different. Most of them make sense, though they can be infuriating :)

[Suttree]

In the case of the wondergirls and Suroth, they only met the once, and only Egwene spoke to her at all. I suppose they would put together that she was a DF since she dealt with Liandrin, but her being Seanchan was probably nearly the same as being a DF to them.

 

Did they even really know who Suroth was?

[Tyler Glembo]

That almost seems to be a theme of the books though, that knowledge is power. By guarding any knowledge you have you put yourself in a position of power over others where you get to make decisions and you get to be right. Or, to put it into RJ's words, if you have knowledge and don't share then you get to cooly arch an eyebrow at people who squirm beneath your penetrating gaze :-)

[Darksmoon]

This does seem to happen quite a bit in the series that what turns out to be important info is not conveyed. However so much happens to these characters in between their meetings and there is always so much more to do that it is easy for these things to fall through the cracks.

[Mr Ares]

Infuriating or not, it often strikes me as rather more realistic than some people realise, or are willing to admit. People can be really bad at communicating, at sharing information. WoT mostly just reflects this. If anything, all these characters sharing all the information they know regularly would be very unrealistic.

[tonofthorns]

I think what gets to me is when the charactors just assume things, instead of finding out the truth. That happens a lot in the beginning of the books.

[Sightblinder'sMinder]

Just got done reading Winter's Heart, and this one bugged the hell out of me:

 

No one bothers to tell Rand about the male a'dam Egeanin supposedly sent to the bottom of the sea (which, of course, she did not).

 

I don't know. But, you'd think a leash that could harness the power of the Dragon Reborn might be worth mentioning to the Dragon Reborn... Oops.

 

I would add, however, that the lack of communication is authentic to a medieval-style setting. We often take the "Information Age" for granted, but for countless generations prior to our existence, news took months, if not years to spread, and 90% of it was bullshit. That's partly what made medieval times so medieval: communication breakdown. Having instantaneous information at your fingertips at all times of the day avoids a lot of problems.

 

Plus, so much of the world was completely unknown to people back then, they imagined all kinds of fanciful stories in order to fill in the blank spaces (they didn't have any Aelfinn to turn to). Shara, for example, is a nice equivalent for India, or the east in general. "Giants with faces on their bellies" was just one of the many crazy things Europeans believed about the Eastern world. During ancient times, the Greeks and Romans traded in silk, but they didn't know how it was made until a couple of Byzantine monks smuggled a few silk worm eggs back to Constantinople in 550 AD. So, for well over a millennia, Europeans thought the silk they were wearing was spun from clouds, or snowflakes, rather than excreted from a worm's ass. Similarly, during the Crusades, the Christians were convinced there was a magical Christian nation in the east, led by a legendary Crusader named Prester John, who was going to come and rescue them from Saladin any day now... They believed that because they had no idea who actually did live in the east, or what Easterners were like. So, imagination filled the void. And when Genghis Khan showed up on the scene, "Oh look, it's Prester John! He's killing Muslims"... Never mind he was killing Christians just the same, "Eastern Muslim-slayer" was enough to fit the bill.

[Mr Ares]

Just got done reading Winter's Heart, and this one bugged the hell out of me:

 

No one bothers to tell Rand about the male a'dam Egeanin supposedly sent to the bottom of the sea (which, of course, she did not).

 

I don't know. But, you'd think a leash that could harness the power of the Dragon Reborn might be worth mentioning to the Dragon Reborn... Oops.

But, as you said, it was sent to the bottom of the ocean, as far as they had reason to believe. "Oh, Rand, you should know, there's this dangerous thing out there, but we dealt with it and it won't be a problem at all." If anything, it would be unrealistic to tell him such a thing.

 

I would add, however, that the lack of communication is authentic to a medieval-style setting. We often take the "Information Age" for granted, but for countless generations prior to our existence, news took months, if not years to spread, and 90% of it was bullshit. That's partly what made medieval times so medieval: communication breakdown. Having instantaneous information at your fingertips at all times of the day avoids a lot of problems.

Not just a mediaeval setting. It happens in the present day as well. If anything, we have too much information these days - it becomes harder and harder to sift through it all. Plus, of course, even when you have the information, doesn't mean people in this day and age share all the important information. People don't mention important things, and can spend an inordinate amount of time on trivia. Inability to communicate is a problem that still exists today.

[Wool-headed lummox]

Yes, it's one of the numerous completely implausible recurrent themes for this series. Robert Jordan wrote his world in a very particular way, one that bears only parting resemblance to reality as we know it. People who grew up together and would give their life to save one another often act like complete strangers in terms of trust, communication and cooperation, something that isn't really based on any factor that we know of. It helps create tension and drama, and so RJ takes the theme and runs with it. It gets better after Brandon Sanderson takes over, but he can only introduce so many changes in the final 3 books of a long-running series.

[Damer Sedai]

Yes, it's one of the numerous completely implausible recurrent themes for this series. Robert Jordan wrote his world in a very particular way, one that bears only parting resemblance to reality as we know it. People who grew up together and would give their life to save one another often act like complete strangers in terms of trust, communication and cooperation, something that isn't really based on any factor that we know of. It helps create tension and drama, and so RJ takes the theme and runs with it. It gets better after Brandon Sanderson takes over, but he can only introduce so many changes in the final 3 books of a long-running series.

 

I am pretty sure that RJ was going to start moving towards more cooperation as the books moved towards the very end, considering the theme of Belief + Unity build Strength. THe Forsaken have been surprisingly incompetent in battle at times (Aginor x2 anyone?), but where they and the Dark side they have really shined after TSR is creating distrust between factions: aka Let the Lord of Chaos RUle (the Splitting of the Tower, Dumai's Wells, THe Dragonsworn/Masema). THe one major conflict we are sure between the good guys he was setting up despite these improvement was the Fields of Merrilor, and if Unity can be achieved that was going to be the first real sign of victory RJ gave us, making things different than in the Age of Legends, and give us all sorts of catharsis about all the frustrating NOT TALKING WHY ARENT YOU TALKING that has happened for 12+ books.

 

But I agree, one thing Sanderson is pushing forward nicely is that at least the main characters are starting to communicate better, at least over smaller things, and I feel he does them in natural ways (I love his writing on the rapport between Nynaeve and Rand)... and that bodes well for AMOL (I hope).

[Suttree]

Yes, it's one of the numerous completely implausible recurrent themes for this series. Robert Jordan wrote his world in a very particular way, one that bears only parting resemblance to reality as we know it. People who grew up together and would give their life to save one another often act like complete strangers in terms of trust, communication and cooperation, something that isn't really based on any factor that we know of. It helps create tension and drama, and so RJ takes the theme and runs with it. It gets better after Brandon Sanderson takes over, but he can only introduce so many changes in the final 3 books of a long-running series.

 

I am pretty sure that RJ was going to start moving towards more cooperation as the books moved towards the very end, considering the theme of Belief + Unity build Strength. THe Forsaken have been surprisingly incompetent in battle at times (Aginor x2 anyone?), but where they and the Dark side they have really shined after TSR is creating distrust between factions: aka Let the Lord of Chaos RUle (the Splitting of the Tower, Dumai's Wells, THe Dragonsworn/Masema). THe one major conflict we are sure between the good guys he was setting up despite these improvement was the Fields of Merrilor, and if Unity can be achieved that was going to be the first real sign of victory RJ gave us, making things different than in the Age of Legends, and give us all sorts of catharsis about all the frustrating NOT TALKING WHY ARENT YOU TALKING that has happened for 12+ books.

 

Good call Damer, it is very important to note where we were in the story arc and what was going on in the world. That combined with what Mr Ares says above and it is fairly believable even if it was pushed a bit too far. It's somewhat similar to how people talk about the pace as if TGS under RJ would have been the same pace as CoT without recognizing things change drastically based on where we are in the story arc.

 

It gets better after Brandon Sanderson takes over, but he can only introduce so many changes in the final 3 books of a long-running series.

 

Thank God for that...