Thom, Mat, and Noal

[bigdoug1971]

When they went into the Finn world to get Moiraine.....Why did they take Noal? I understand he was clever and could handle himself surprisingly for an old man. If it was me going in there, and I had to take Mat and one other, I'd take an Ashaman. They knew they had to cheat with fire, music, light, and iron. The Ashaman could channel light and fire himself and not have to worry about running out of the fireworks. Mat knew people could channel in there, he seen Rand coming out with a sword of fire in the stone of Tear.

 

I just always thought there could have been a better choice for their 3rd person. Not that Noal didn't get the job done, but I think I would have been more confident with someone who could channel. Better light than a torch. Better fire than the fireworks. And with an Ashaman, you get a living weapon at your side too. They did get the job done, but maybe Noal didn't have to die.

[Mr Ares]

Well, Noal did offer to go. And they would have had to have wasted more time in trying to recruit an Asha'man. Also, channeling is harder in the Finns realm, due to the different geometry. Rand managed, back when he was still doing everything on instinct, but for a trained channeler, all their familiar weaves are now a bit off.

[Crisapx]

I always thought that when Rand came with the sword in his hand it wasn't from the portal door, but from a normal door, I thought he just heard a noise and went to check it with the sword ready...

 

Edit:

"A boot appeared, backing out of the twisted stone doorway, followed by the rest of Rand, with that fiery

sword in his hands."

 

Ok, it seems that it was my mistake, strange since I've read TSR twice and I didn't read it right both times.

[Clouded]

Well, Noal did offer to go. And they would have had to have wasted more time in trying to recruit an Asha'man. Also, channeling is harder in the Finns realm, due to the different geometry. Rand managed, back when he was still doing everything on instinct, but for a trained channeler, all their familiar weaves are now a bit off.

 

Could you point us to the source of this info? I just don't remember this, and you being a long member of DM I believe you, I just wonder where it's from.

[a5m]

I still like simple answers. If they took a channeler, the price for the bargain would have been higher. The price had to be "half the light of the world". That price was based on Mat, Thom, Noal and Moiraine. And, of course, the pattern needed Noal to die at this time. :)

[bigdoug1971]

But the price was paid with Mat's eye. That had nothing to do with the others. It was his eye. His pain. His memories they wanted from a Ta'veren. The only instructions was that it had to be Mat, Thom and one other.

[Darksmoon]

Moiraine's letter stated that they had to bring three and that those three were Thom, Mat and another guy (which we now know is Noal). If any other three went it would not have worked. Obviously the one power did not help Lanfear or Moiraine escape so perhaps its abilities in their realm are limited. We do know they were feeding off of it.

[thisguy]

Moiraine's letter stated that they had to bring three and that those three were Thom, Mat and another guy (which we now know is Noal). If any other three went it would not have worked. Obviously the one power did not help Lanfear or Moiraine escape so perhaps its abilities in their realm are limited. We do know they were feeding off of it.

Great point.

[Mr Ares]

Well, Noal did offer to go. And they would have had to have wasted more time in trying to recruit an Asha'man. Also, channeling is harder in the Finns realm, due to the different geometry. Rand managed, back when he was still doing everything on instinct, but for a trained channeler, all their familiar weaves are now a bit off.

Could you point us to the source of this info? I just don't remember this, and you being a long member of DM I believe you, I just wonder where it's from.

If nothing else, look at the descriptions of the place. Their laws of physics are different to ours. I think something might have been mentioned, probably by Moiraine, in the books themselves but I don't have time to check now.

[BFG]

Well, Noal did offer to go. And they would have had to have wasted more time in trying to recruit an Asha'man. Also, channeling is harder in the Finns realm, due to the different geometry. Rand managed, back when he was still doing everything on instinct, but for a trained channeler, all their familiar weaves are now a bit off.

Could you point us to the source of this info? I just don't remember this, and you being a long member of DM I believe you, I just wonder where it's from.

If nothing else, look at the descriptions of the place. Their laws of physics are different to ours. I think something might have been mentioned, probably by Moiraine, in the books themselves but I don't have time to check now.

 

Can't give you a quote right now, but Mat & co run up and down the same corridor several times to end up somewhere different each time - I'd suggest that broke some physics :)

[thisguy]

Well, Noal did offer to go. And they would have had to have wasted more time in trying to recruit an Asha'man. Also, channeling is harder in the Finns realm, due to the different geometry. Rand managed, back when he was still doing everything on instinct, but for a trained channeler, all their familiar weaves are now a bit off.

Could you point us to the source of this info? I just don't remember this, and you being a long member of DM I believe you, I just wonder where it's from.

If nothing else, look at the descriptions of the place. Their laws of physics are different to ours. I think something might have been mentioned, probably by Moiraine, in the books themselves but I don't have time to check now.

 

Can't give you a quote right now, but Mat & co run up and down the same corridor several times to end up somewhere different each time - I'd suggest that broke some physics :)

Absolutely true. Plus, Darksmoon brought up the excellent point that Moiraine and Lanfear were captured by them. Moiraine's one of the more powerful AS up until the newest breed and Lanfear's the most powerful Chosen female channeler.

 

While we don't know the details of what happened to them after they fell through the doorway, it raises questions about how effective an Ashaman would have been with Mat and Thom.

[BFG]

Well, Noal did offer to go. And they would have had to have wasted more time in trying to recruit an Asha'man. Also, channeling is harder in the Finns realm, due to the different geometry. Rand managed, back when he was still doing everything on instinct, but for a trained channeler, all their familiar weaves are now a bit off.

Could you point us to the source of this info? I just don't remember this, and you being a long member of DM I believe you, I just wonder where it's from.

If nothing else, look at the descriptions of the place. Their laws of physics are different to ours. I think something might have been mentioned, probably by Moiraine, in the books themselves but I don't have time to check now.

 

Can't give you a quote right now, but Mat & co run up and down the same corridor several times to end up somewhere different each time - I'd suggest that broke some physics :)

Absolutely true. Plus, Darksmoon brought up the excellent point that Moiraine and Lanfear were captured by them. Moiraine's one of the more powerful AS up until the newest breed and Lanfear's the most powerful Chosen female channeler.

 

While we don't know the details of what happened to them after they fell through the doorway, it raises questions about how effective an Ashaman would have been with Mat and Thom.

 

I'm actually intrigued by the 'one other'. We don't know that it had to be Noal. Moiraines letter described several outcomes and I'm sure that she said, of the three Thom and Mat had to be there for a chance of success and one other. Even with that it was possible that they would all die, or all escape - I wonder if she saw it with different third men, and the outcome was determined by who went?

[thisguy]

Well, Noal did offer to go. And they would have had to have wasted more time in trying to recruit an Asha'man. Also, channeling is harder in the Finns realm, due to the different geometry. Rand managed, back when he was still doing everything on instinct, but for a trained channeler, all their familiar weaves are now a bit off.

Could you point us to the source of this info? I just don't remember this, and you being a long member of DM I believe you, I just wonder where it's from.

If nothing else, look at the descriptions of the place. Their laws of physics are different to ours. I think something might have been mentioned, probably by Moiraine, in the books themselves but I don't have time to check now.

 

Can't give you a quote right now, but Mat & co run up and down the same corridor several times to end up somewhere different each time - I'd suggest that broke some physics :)

Absolutely true. Plus, Darksmoon brought up the excellent point that Moiraine and Lanfear were captured by them. Moiraine's one of the more powerful AS up until the newest breed and Lanfear's the most powerful Chosen female channeler.

 

While we don't know the details of what happened to them after they fell through the doorway, it raises questions about how effective an Ashaman would have been with Mat and Thom.

 

I'm actually intrigued by the 'one other'. We don't know that it had to be Noal. Moiraines letter described several outcomes and I'm sure that she said, of the three Thom and Mat had to be there for a chance of success and one other. Even with that it was possible that they would all die, or all escape - I wonder if she saw it with different third men, and the outcome was determined by who went?

 

Could be.... one of the things that I think make the series as good as it is and also as frustrating as it can be is that there are open ended questions like this. Makes it more real. I also like that RJ put thought into this - in book two with the Portal Stones we're introduced to the idea that there are zillions of paths for each decision or action. Love it.

 

But, I think Noal was the right choice. when I read that, I thought he must be the Broken Wolf referred to in the prophecies, although I don't know how that relates to destroying the hope and will (or, whatever the correct phrase is) of men. We know that Ish used him and that he's so upset by parts of his past, he doesn't want to own up to them.

[BFG]

Well, Noal did offer to go. And they would have had to have wasted more time in trying to recruit an Asha'man. Also, channeling is harder in the Finns realm, due to the different geometry. Rand managed, back when he was still doing everything on instinct, but for a trained channeler, all their familiar weaves are now a bit off.

Could you point us to the source of this info? I just don't remember this, and you being a long member of DM I believe you, I just wonder where it's from.

If nothing else, look at the descriptions of the place. Their laws of physics are different to ours. I think something might have been mentioned, probably by Moiraine, in the books themselves but I don't have time to check now.

 

Can't give you a quote right now, but Mat & co run up and down the same corridor several times to end up somewhere different each time - I'd suggest that broke some physics :)

Absolutely true. Plus, Darksmoon brought up the excellent point that Moiraine and Lanfear were captured by them. Moiraine's one of the more powerful AS up until the newest breed and Lanfear's the most powerful Chosen female channeler.

 

While we don't know the details of what happened to them after they fell through the doorway, it raises questions about how effective an Ashaman would have been with Mat and Thom.

 

I'm actually intrigued by the 'one other'. We don't know that it had to be Noal. Moiraines letter described several outcomes and I'm sure that she said, of the three Thom and Mat had to be there for a chance of success and one other. Even with that it was possible that they would all die, or all escape - I wonder if she saw it with different third men, and the outcome was determined by who went?

 

Could be.... one of the things that I think make the series as good as it is and also as frustrating as it can be is that there are open ended questions like this. Makes it more real. I also like that RJ put thought into this - in book two with the Portal Stones we're introduced to the idea that there are zillions of paths for each decision or action. Love it.

+1, and also the fact that the internet has allowed discussions like this to occur :)

 

But, I think Noal was the right choice. when I read that, I thought he must be the Broken Wolf referred to in the prophecies, although I don't know how that relates to destroying the hope and will (or, whatever the correct phrase is) of men. We know that Ish used him and that he's so upset by parts of his past, he doesn't want to own up to them.

 

I wouldn't quibble Noals presence, he's earned the right.

 

*pauses and searches google*

 

Technically the fear and sorrow bit is a seperate sentance - any chance it's supposed to be His destruction, as in the destruction that the Dark Lord brings? Probably not, as the next bit starts with the Lord of the Evening coming.

[thisguy]

Well, Noal did offer to go. And they would have had to have wasted more time in trying to recruit an Asha'man. Also, channeling is harder in the Finns realm, due to the different geometry. Rand managed, back when he was still doing everything on instinct, but for a trained channeler, all their familiar weaves are now a bit off.

Could you point us to the source of this info? I just don't remember this, and you being a long member of DM I believe you, I just wonder where it's from.

If nothing else, look at the descriptions of the place. Their laws of physics are different to ours. I think something might have been mentioned, probably by Moiraine, in the books themselves but I don't have time to check now.

 

Can't give you a quote right now, but Mat & co run up and down the same corridor several times to end up somewhere different each time - I'd suggest that broke some physics :)

Absolutely true. Plus, Darksmoon brought up the excellent point that Moiraine and Lanfear were captured by them. Moiraine's one of the more powerful AS up until the newest breed and Lanfear's the most powerful Chosen female channeler.

 

While we don't know the details of what happened to them after they fell through the doorway, it raises questions about how effective an Ashaman would have been with Mat and Thom.

 

I'm actually intrigued by the 'one other'. We don't know that it had to be Noal. Moiraines letter described several outcomes and I'm sure that she said, of the three Thom and Mat had to be there for a chance of success and one other. Even with that it was possible that they would all die, or all escape - I wonder if she saw it with different third men, and the outcome was determined by who went?

 

Could be.... one of the things that I think make the series as good as it is and also as frustrating as it can be is that there are open ended questions like this. Makes it more real. I also like that RJ put thought into this - in book two with the Portal Stones we're introduced to the idea that there are zillions of paths for each decision or action. Love it.

+1, and also the fact that the internet has allowed discussions like this to occur :)

 

But, I think Noal was the right choice. when I read that, I thought he must be the Broken Wolf referred to in the prophecies, although I don't know how that relates to destroying the hope and will (or, whatever the correct phrase is) of men. We know that Ish used him and that he's so upset by parts of his past, he doesn't want to own up to them.

 

I wouldn't quibble Noals presence, he's earned the right.

 

*pauses and searches google*

 

Technically the fear and sorrow bit is a seperate sentance - any chance it's supposed to be His destruction, as in the destruction that the Dark Lord brings? Probably not, as the next bit starts with the Lord of the Evening coming.

 

I just looked at the prophecy with that very thought in mind a couple of nights ago. Unfortunately 'his destruction' - or whatever the exact words are - is 'his' not 'His'. And, then, there's what you said - following line is about the Lord of Evening.

[aranyaka]

I suspect that the Tower of Ghenjei had some relation ship with three such like the triangle and three questions. Maybe there was a hiden rule about three in and three out.

[Orderofolde]

When they went into the Finn world to get Moiraine.....Why did they take Noal? I understand he was clever and could handle himself surprisingly for an old man. If it was me going in there, and I had to take Mat and one other, I'd take an Ashaman. They knew they had to cheat with fire, music, light, and iron. The Ashaman could channel light and fire himself and not have to worry about running out of the fireworks. Mat knew people could channel in there, he seen Rand coming out with a sword of fire in the stone of Tear.

 

I just always thought there could have been a better choice for their 3rd person. Not that Noal didn't get the job done, but I think I would have been more confident with someone who could channel. Better light than a torch. Better fire than the fireworks. And with an Ashaman, you get a living weapon at your side too. They did get the job done, but maybe Noal didn't have to die.

I think it is because the 3rd person would have to sacrifice himself in order for it to work. Everyone went in knowing that they might fail. So 1 dies so 3 can escape.

[shortkut]

I suspect that the Tower of Ghenjei had some relation ship with three such like the triangle and three questions. Maybe there was a hiden rule about three in and three out.

I like this idea