[ADVANCED] KaeKey Game of Thrones Mafia - GAME OVER! NIGHT'S WATCH WINS!

[dicetosser1]

being part way thru the cult QT i agree that recruiting mafia was a bit unfair. they may not have told you who the mafia were but they could and did tell you what the mafia were thinking

[Darthe]

Added.

 

Then I'm removing myself from further discussion, as adding things to a game that has already been balanced as well as it could be is fundamentally flawed.

 

Good game, folks.

 

Are you willing to still check my upcoming games' balance Verb or no?

[michellem]

Darthe, part of the problem was that neither Cyan/Night nor Dice was vocal in the QT at all. If they had actually participated, BG and I couldn't have controlled it as we did at all.

 

 

Kae, Key, thanks for a good game! I wish I was able to enjoy it properly and not be restricted in activity due first to computer crash and then due to glasses being broken. But I thought it was a very fun never the less and I've learnt alot :)

[ed2funy]

The Night I got recruited after Tress was lynched, I mentioned I thought Despo was Cult.

This was because I got an "Indeterminate" and figured he had been recruited. I wasn't going to push it until Day.

 

Of course, once I was recruited, I didn't mention it again.

 

 

 

Red is gonna be piiissssssed.

[Basel Gill]

Good game, mods. I don't understand one thing... if there were still two surviving mafia, how is the game over? Shouldn't the scum team still have a night kill power to eliminate anyone not on their team? Wouldn't mafia still be a threat that needs to be eliminated to everyone else?

[Darthe]

Cult win condition is to gain voting majority.

[hazelkrs1]

I would disagree that cult has any disadvantage except that it can lose its night ability. It eliminates power roles, bypasses claims, upstarts mafias, and misleads games.

 

Erm, it also starts off much smaller than mafia, will pretty much almost always have way less roled players than mafia, usually has no NK, and will often have recruiting limitations.

 

But hey, I completely agree that cult can be a b***. Still, I think you're overexagerrating the OPness of cult and downplaying mafia's utility. As I said, I think cult's victory in this game mainly comes to being lucky with the recruit choices. Without recruiting two mafia we prob would have lost pretty handily.

 

Added.

 

Then I'm removing myself from further discussion, as adding things to a game that has already been balanced as well as it could be is fundamentally flawed.

 

Good game, folks.

 

Uh wait a second. You're saying that any mod changing things midgame to counteract something they might not have foreseen is taboo, yet you brought up the exact same possibility during the game. Plus, I have seen some very experienced and highly favored mods do this exact thing in their own games, DPR himself has significantly changed certain game mechanics and dynamics when he saw that an imbalance might have been created that he didn't foresee when he created the game.

 

The fact is, I think it's up to the mod's discretion if they think they need to change something or make a slight alteration to an existing mechanic to help balance the game in midswing. To be honest I find it somewhat of a regular occurence in a lot of mafia games. The changes made aren't always huge and noticable, but I really don't think it's bad form to change something midgame at all.

 

If a certain mechanic wasn't operating as intended, and it had a possibility of making the game suffer, I would DEF prefer for the mod to be adaptable to the situation. To not consider change just because the game was considered balanced from the start seems just stubborn to me, and could easily lead to a game that wasn't very enjoyable for it's players.

 

I think the majority of players in this game greatly enjoyed it, and of course a loss can always be tough, especially when victory seems on the horizon, but I think Kae and Key modded a completely fair and extremely fun game for us, all things considered.

 

Thank you gals again for modding a great game! Yall make a great team when it comes to modding

[Sakaea]

Thanks Des^_^

[Gabriel Kross]

You know who wasn't Night's Watch? Oh wait me! I had a few lucky targets in there, Darthe (though he was a day action), Dice, Desp (though it did nothing) I should have followed my instincts more. Basel I really don't get you at all, every game you play in with me your logic makes no sense, like blocking Verb after I proved he wasn't killing people. Then blocking ed after suspecting he was recruited, that made no sense.

 

Also Verb, my apologies for the guilt by association assumption. I really thought the scenario made sense.

[ed2funy]

EP, you whack.

[Gabriel Kross]

EP, you whack.

 

 

No I'm Quack! *tilts head*

 

 

Psy?!

[hazelkrs1]

I thought following your instincts was the mistake you had been making all along...

 

[Gabriel Kross]

No, The only 2 people on my instinct list possibly 3 were Verb, Basel, and Red 1.0 I don't count Red because she died night 1

 

The anti-town I had on my list were you dice and darthe I blocked ech of you looking for the killer, but I couldn't find the right one. my list only consisted of you 5 though, since as I said Red 1.0 was dead, I tried blocking Kaylee since I thought she might be a back up CL but I decided even if she was she wasn't really a big enough ping to focus on.

 

Also I really thought there was a BD since I trusted ed, it's to bad that trust was poorly placed...

[hazelkrs1]

No, The only 2 people on my instinct list possibly 3 were Verb, Basel, and Red 1.0 I don't count Red because she died night 1

 

The anti-town I had on my list were you dice and darthe I blocked ech of you looking for the killer, but I couldn't find the right one. my list only consisted of you 5 though, since as I said Red 1.0 was dead, I tried blocking Kaylee since I thought she might be a back up CL but I decided even if she was she wasn't really a big enough ping to focus on.

 

Also I really thought there was a BD since I trusted ed, it's to bad that trust was poorly placed...

 

Well there was a Framer, so had you seen him flip you prob would have trusted Ed anyways...

 

Anyhoo, I don't think town power roles made very good choices with their targets. The only really good target I remember was Ed viewing Tress. Other than that, both the healers and blockers didn't make very good picks.

 

For instance, I don't think you really used your Jailer role that well honestly, you were mainly looking for the offensive capabilities of the role, instead of the defensive abilities of it. It's much harder to try and block a killing role, since most mods let anyone on the mafia team send it in, than it is to block the kill by defending the right target. After Kaylee was lynch you DEF should have Jailed Red, since it was pretty obvious she was the one mafia would have targeted (Ed seemed too suspect at that point)

[Gabriel Kross]

I was using it more as a blocker role on people I was suspicious of I wasn't using it as a protective role. I hadn't been paying as much attention towards the end so I missed the Kaylee lynch and wasn't really thinking about using my ability as a protect.

[hazelkrs1]

I think most people use the Jailer role as a blocker role more often than a protective role, which is sad because the role has such great versatility, and it's been said many times that a town RB'er can easily do more harm than good at times

[hazelkrs1]

When you had the Jailer role in that game on Myndjack, that was a little bit different, or really extremely different. The role was designed to be a lot more offensive in nature that game. I wish I could have seen the QT where yall grilled ... who was it, JLM?

[Gabriel Kross]

When you had the Jailer role in that game on Myndjack, that was a little bit different, or really extremely different. The role was designed to be a lot more offensive in nature that game. I wish I could have seen the QT where yall grilled ... who was it, JLM?

 

I can link you to it if you want, it was pretty epic. I just need to get on MJ to do it I should still have the PMs

[Gabriel Kross]

http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/3kGZs4suEuyw

 

Is the normal QT

 

http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/5pXx3jRCDtkb

 

is the one where we questioned JLM.

[hazelkrs1]

I would love that EP, thanks!

[hazelkrs1]

ninja'd

[Gabriel Kross]

I would love that EP, thanks!

 

 

I ninja'd you foo.

[hazelkrs1]

http://www.quicktopi.../H/3kGZs4suEuyw

 

Is the normal QT

 

http://www.quicktopi.../H/5pXx3jRCDtkb

 

is the one where we questioned JLM.

 

Roflmao this is awesome, I'm already cracking up from the rp'ing

[Verbal32]

Uh wait a second. You're saying that any mod changing things midgame to counteract something they might not have foreseen is taboo, yet you brought up the exact same possibility during the game. Plus, I have seen some very experienced and highly favored mods do this exact thing in their own games, DPR himself has significantly changed certain game mechanics and dynamics when he saw that an imbalance might have been created that he didn't foresee when he created the game.

 

The fact is, I think it's up to the mod's discretion if they think they need to change something or make a slight alteration to an existing mechanic to help balance the game in midswing. To be honest I find it somewhat of a regular occurence in a lot of mafia games. The changes made aren't always huge and noticable, but I really don't think it's bad form to change something midgame at all.

 

If a certain mechanic wasn't operating as intended, and it had a possibility of making the game suffer, I would DEF prefer for the mod to be adaptable to the situation. To not consider change just because the game was considered balanced from the start seems just stubborn to me, and could easily lead to a game that wasn't very enjoyable for it's players.

 

I think the majority of players in this game greatly enjoyed it, and of course a loss can always be tough, especially when victory seems on the horizon, but I think Kae and Key modded a completely fair and extremely fun game for us, all things considered.

 

Thank you gals again for modding a great game! Yall make a great team when it comes to modding

 

That's the problem. DPR has modded more games than most of you have even played - and he's done that to a very few games. It was his error in design, and he admitted that. But the vast majority of his games don't get changed like that.

 

And like you said, many small tweaks are barely noticed, and you're 100% correct. This was not the case here - the tweak was major. The problem with your statement is that many games are having tweaks made to fix a balance design issue. I agree that is sometimes needed, but drastic tweaks can lead to OVERBALANCING and swinging the game's delicate balance in the opposite direction.

 

Games like this are really hard to create, and I give kudos to mods like these that create them. They are virtually impossible to balance, though......and my point is that you need to put the balance in the best spot you can before you start, and stick with it. So the recruiter was killed early. So? It happens. Sometimes the mafia are lynched on consecutive days, too - it just sometimes happens like that. For cult, that is the risk you take. If left alone, you can sweep the game. If found early, you're screwed. Balance is difficut with a cult - that's why many mods avoid them like the plague.

[Verbal32]

The caveat to the above is the small tweaks you mentioned: such as maybe giving the BPV wearer 2 vests instead of 1.....something like that.