How does Brandon Sanderson do in emulating Rober Jordan

[GregerMoek]

I will probably make it sound more terrible than it really is, but here goes...

 

I liked ToM more than TGS but that might(I'm not sure) simply be because I got used to it rather than the book actually being an improvement. I guess I found the plot elements in ToM a bit more interesting than the ones in TGS though, especially those involving Mat, which also might have helped to make me like ToM more than TGS.

I think Mat was ruined in the first chapter. While I found the conversations funny I had a whole different voice in my head as I read it, which I had to try and correct in my own head. It was a most odd experience, one I had not lived through before. Eventually I managed to force Mat's "voice" in my head to what I had before, even if the wording was slightly different. But initially that was mighty hard, I tell you. Changing that voice from some high-pitched random hillbilly to simply old Mat, who does not have a high pitched voice in my head. Trying to explain this is impossible I guess but I think that it could serve as an indcator of how different the initial Mat feeling was when BS first wrote about him.

 

I don't know why, but I think Perrin was damn dull in those books, while most seem to think he was BS's stronger character. I guess I'm simply anti-Perrin or something, although I admit I liked the sequences that was not the Wolf Dream (to try and avoid as much spoiling as possible), but the Wolf Dream... Gawd.

I think BS's strongest character was Nynaeve for some reason, I also didn't mind how he did Min. The Rocky-esque montague about Egwene's captivity in the White Tower wasn't bad. The battle scenes were better than I had anticipated after I had my first Mat-shock.

 

I think re-reading them will be harder though, if not only for the reason that since the books take part in the ending of the series there won't be so many details as in the first books that you'll go "Oh! So -that's- why they did that" or "Damn, how could I miss that hint?". The last books are mostly endings of story-archs and that might be a more forgiving thing to write if there's plot-line notes within reach.

 

 

Oh, and as someone else mentioned, he does swap between characters faster, this is actually one of the things I didn't mind at all, I aknowledged the difference but it did not matter much to me. While some might argue that if you don't like a certain bunch of chapters involving one of the characters, you'll never have to read about it again in a long while after being done. On the other hand, I almost prefer cutting the "bad" pieces up into small parts. Oh well, maybe that's just me.

 

 

Overall though I enjoyed reading the books simply because the plot was great AND Sanderson do write well enough to deliver that story. I recommend reading them but I might not re-read them unless I have to, or if I'm looking for something very special. No one can replace Jordan, and TGS and ToM are in my opinion still good books.

[Stitched up by a postie]

One thing I find with TGS and ToM is that the wider context/background now feels patchy, somehow. Sanderson doesn't seem to be as good at tracking and including all the minor details needed to keep a sense of continuity across all plot elements. That would be a tough job for anyone, though, and it may not bother you.

 

Certainly read them, but like a lot of posters here have said, they may not be books you find much value in re-reading.

[Luckers]

.>Also, I think that some of the problem he has with Mat may be that Mat is a smooth, smartass ladies' man, very suave and cocky and what not, and BS himself is a big nerd. Not as an insult, he just is. I mean...

 

I'm not sure that's the reason. In "The way of kings" he writes all sorts of not-nerdy characters...

Mat character is kind of incongruent at times, don't know why

 

I actually agree with Suttree here. In a great many ways Brandon's Mat read like the impressions of a party-boy by someone whose never been a party-boy. In particular in the way Brandon writes the 'witty banter' of the character, and the vaguely haphazard sloshing about of Mat when he's out on the town looking for a game or whatever. They all read to my the way I would have thought a twenty-three year old out for a good time would act back when I was fourteen... as opposed to how one who has had the actual experiences of being out on the town. People grow up... their tastes become more sophisticated, and their patience for some of the less pleasent sides of partying grows smaller. We see this in Mat--and then it vanishes. Someone who hasn't been through that path wouldn't really get it--and Brandon has not.

[Stitched up by a postie]

Makes sense to me.

[batcaver]

I'll admit that I was a little too worried I'd be fired on to say this before and I also don't know BS personally, but I agree with you both. It SEEMS to me the likely explanation. Of course, as a writer this is a major obstacle that he'll have to deal with if he wants to have a good range of arrows in his quiver. It's really probably only a mild hindrance if he sticks to fantasy but even so, a good writer has to be able to convincingly put him/herself in the shoes of all kinds of different characters. It's tough to do, and anyone who's ever tried to write a character they find really foreign to themselves knows how impressive it is to read someone who makes it seem easy.

 

Since everyone so far has pretty much praised Way of Kings I have to protest a bit. I couldn't even make it through the whole book. Couldn't seem to find anything new or different about the story. The action parts felt over the top because the weren't grounded by characters that felt believable. Also, I've developed a serious pet peeve about authors that seem to like the idea of swearing and want to have it in their books but for some reason refuse to have their characters use actual profanity. It's not necessary that it be included at all, so it's not as if they're forced to the silliness. I cringed every single time I read someone say "Storm you!!". It makes me feel like a grown man seeing The Little Mermaid at the theater by myself.

[John Everyman]

I am not really fit to judge this, as I have only read BS's original work, but my impression from comparing RJ and BS from that is that BS is slightly better with dialogue, which is a huge thing in my book (indeed, if you ask me what I feel RJ's greatest weakness is, I will say tendency towards weak dialogue every time, especially with The Eye of the World), but RJ writes more elegant prose and is a much better world builder. So far, he seems much better with intrigue, too, but BS hasn't yet developed a long running fantasy series, so we'll see where Stormlight Archives go.

 

Also, I think that some of the problem he has with Mat may be that Mat is a smooth, smartass ladies' man, very suave and cocky and what not, and BS himself is a big nerd. Not as an insult, he just is. I mean, he's a bookworm who plays Magic and stuff. That's about as un-Mat as possible. It has to be difficult to write a character that you can't relate to in any way. I think he does a good job, overall.

 

True, to a point, but I can't see that being a reason. I mean, look at George R.R. Martin: I certainly don't think he has anything in common with Jaime, or Arya. I think one misconception many people make is that crafting a story is all about drawing from your life experiences.

 

Also, I've developed a serious pet peeve about authors that seem to like the idea of swearing and want to have it in their books but for some reason refuse to have their characters use actual profanity. It's not necessary that it be included at all, so it's not as if they're forced to the silliness. I cringed every single time I read someone say "Storm you!!". It makes me feel like a grown man seeing The Little Mermaid at the theater by myself.

 

Totally agreed. Same thing happens with Star Wars books, stupid made up curse words. But um, maybe I'm playing devils advocate, but does that not annoy you in WOT? I can't be the only one who thought some of Mat's curses were incredibly stupid (while sometimes bordering on amusing, but definitely not giving the impression of swearing). "Bloody" and "flaming" are real, sure, but no sane human being would ever say something like, "Sheep swallop and bloody buttered onions!"

 

Certainly not enough to ruin the book for me, though. I mean, if I let little things get to me, I'd have a hard time with WOT.

[kght22]

i love and enjoyed both tgs and tom, i also love the rest of the series. but it was a different author and it showed, but it was still the same story, and it still seemed to be heading in the same direction. it sure as hell didn't feel like sanderson started heading out into the proverbial left field.

[Agitel]

Complaints about Sanderson's made up curse words is really complaints about most of fantasy. Wheel of Time and Malazan use plenty of world-specific curses as well. Battlestar Galactica on the Sci Fi/Fantasy front too. To me, what's important is whether or not these curse words make sense in the context of the setting. "Beru fend." "Light!" "Blood and ashes!" "Hood's breath." "Storm you."

 

Those all make sense in context and, to me, don't sound ridiculous.

[batcaver]

I am not really fit to judge this, as I have only read BS's original work, but my impression from comparing RJ and BS from that is that BS is slightly better with dialogue, which is a huge thing in my book (indeed, if you ask me what I feel RJ's greatest weakness is, I will say tendency towards weak dialogue every time, especially with The Eye of the World), but RJ writes more elegant prose and is a much better world builder. So far, he seems much better with intrigue, too, but BS hasn't yet developed a long running fantasy series, so we'll see where Stormlight Archives go.

 

Also, I think that some of the problem he has with Mat may be that Mat is a smooth, smartass ladies' man, very suave and cocky and what not, and BS himself is a big nerd. Not as an insult, he just is. I mean, he's a bookworm who plays Magic and stuff. That's about as un-Mat as possible. It has to be difficult to write a character that you can't relate to in any way. I think he does a good job, overall.

 

True, to a point, but I can't see that being a reason. I mean, look at George R.R. Martin: I certainly don't think he has anything in common with Jaime, or Arya. I think one misconception many people make is that crafting a story is all about drawing from your life experiences.

 

Also, I've developed a serious pet peeve about authors that seem to like the idea of swearing and want to have it in their books but for some reason refuse to have their characters use actual profanity. It's not necessary that it be included at all, so it's not as if they're forced to the silliness. I cringed every single time I read someone say "Storm you!!". It makes me feel like a grown man seeing The Little Mermaid at the theater by myself.

 

Totally agreed. Same thing happens with Star Wars books, stupid made up curse words. But um, maybe I'm playing devils advocate, but does that not annoy you in WOT? I can't be the only one who thought some of Mat's curses were incredibly stupid (while sometimes bordering on amusing, but definitely not giving the impression of swearing). "Bloody" and "flaming" are real, sure, but no sane human being would ever say something like, "Sheep swallop and bloody buttered onions!"

 

Certainly not enough to ruin the book for me, though. I mean, if I let little things get to me, I'd have a hard time with WOT.

Yeah, it does get on my nerves at times in WOT, but not as much. I think mainly because "Bloody" or "Flaming", the two main curses used, are expressions people use in real life, if to a lesser degree in some cultures, so they don't really sound strange to me. If you're gonna do it, then I agree that it should be within the context of the story, but you're still going to have to have a pretty good imagination to keep it from sounding silly. It's one of the things that made ASOIAF seem kind of refreshing in it's way. Not that there aren't other fantasy series' that opted to go the explicit route, but none so popular at least. However, I can understand an author needing to have a character express anger or frustration in a certain way but not wanting their books to be pigeonholed due to censorship issues.

 

It's kind of an interesting thing to think about really; a new word is made up that means essentially the same thing as the censored word and is used in the same way but is now acceptable where the previous word was not. Often if the new slang sticks it will eventually become the new taboo, starting the whole thing all over again. Kind of makes me think our society might deserve a brain enema.

[Asmodeanisdemandread]

Just to say to tommyrocker: I'm a book nerd that plays magic and I can write funny and/or interesting characters. Being a nerd doesn't eliminate you from writing good characters. Tracy Hickman and Margaret Weis came up with the idea for the Dragonlance series because they were playing D&D. And they've had as many NY Times best sellers as RJ. Sanderson by his own admission (as many posters have pointed out) doesn't get Mat. That's not uncommon when taking over someone else's work. A friend of mine is a director of indie films that writes his own screenplays and from time to time he asks me to look them over. When I suggest changes and write the scene how I see it, it doesn't fit. However if I tell him what would work better and he writes it, it fits. The person who created the character always has a better understanding. BS has done a good job. Not a great job, but under the circumstances I can't think of an author that could do better(except GRRM but like someone else said if he signed on to WOT I'd kill him cause it would take ten years.(a feast for crows and a dance with dragons both took 5yrs longer than expected))

[John Everyman]

As a Dune fan, I can say with certainty what a bad continuation of a series by another author looks like. All in all, I think WOT fans are quite fortunate to not have another Kevin J. Anderson come and do it (and about a million prequels while he's at it).

 

But yeah, all authors have their strengths and weaknesses- I love Robert Jordan, but he has a wagon full of weaknesses as a writer- so even so, based on their original work, I think I'd be more comfortable handing WOT to Brandon Sanderson than I would George R.R. Martin. Martin is a fantastic author, but his style is totally different from Jordan's, where Sanderson clearly takes some influence from him (at least that's the impression I get from The Way of Kings).

 

That said, GRRM has written some of the WOT characters before, Rand in particular, and it was glorious. And hilarious. Anyone catch the Suvudu cage match a few years ago, with Rand vs Jaime? GRRM wrote that match, and the whole thing just seemed like a big shout out to Robert Jordan (including poking fun at some of his more infamous tics). It was pretty funny to see GRRM write, essentially, fanfic, though. Judging from it, though, I'm not sure I could see him writing Nynaeve, Egwene and so on for an extended period of time. He seemed to like Min, though (or Tyrion at least liked Min).

[Sid]

I think that might be a little exaggeration, since FFC came out five years after SoS, and DWD came out 6 years after FFC. But yes there would have been a huge outcry by many if GRRM strayed from his own stuff at all, and quite frankly there should be.

 

I guess the frustrating thing isn't that he doesn't get Mat perfectly, it's how wide the chasm is between the two versions. It's literally more different than replacing Bo and Luke with Coy and Vance for a season, if anyone remembers the Dukes of Hazard. It's like the character was viewed through a funhouse mirror or something. You can still make out the ashendarei and hat, but everything else is all twisted. I'm kind of confused how it ever got put into the books that way, to be honest.

[Luckers]

Complaints about Sanderson's made up curse words is really complaints about most of fantasy. Wheel of Time and Malazan use plenty of world-specific curses as well. Battlestar Galactica on the Sci Fi/Fantasy front too. To me, what's important is whether or not these curse words make sense in the context of the setting. "Beru fend." "Light!" "Blood and ashes!" "Hood's breath." "Storm you."

 

Those all make sense in context and, to me, don't sound ridiculous.

 

Honestly, I agree with your general point about swearing in fantasy--though it can be done well--for instance I absolutely love the way they handled swearing in Battlestar Galactica. Often though this depends on HOW its done so much as what is done--for instance I do find Sanderson's attempts at swearing clunky. I think that its often more the context of the swearing and how it is written into the story than the usages. It reminds of when you hear someone who doesn't swear often swear... you can hear that the word sounds awkward in their mouths, and that they aren't really sure how to use it properly. That's how Brandon's writing of a swear sounds to me.

 

That being said, from what I've seen, complaints about Sanderson's swearing mostly revolve around the sudden change in swearing such as blood and ashes to bloody ashes and the like from multiple characters in multiple places across the world with no cultural gensis for the shift, and that has more to do with the fact that its a violation of the integrity of the world (thus breaking the fourth wall and jarring the reader out of the story) than to do with usage.

[Suttree]

Tracy Hickman and Margaret Weis came up with the idea for the Dragonlance series because they were playing D&D. And they've had as many NY Times best sellers as RJ.

 

Not sure how this backs up your assertion that they can write that "rogue type" character well? Stephenie Meyer has a ton of NY TImes best sellers, it doesn't help the quality of her writing any. tommyrocker has a very valid point, a good part of the reason why Brandon struggles with Mat is because that carousing, ladies man is so foreign to him. In turning Mat into a jester he "wrote the funny" out of him.

[John Everyman]

Call me a purist, but I definitely prefer it when fantasy books use "real" swear words. I always want to chuckle or groan when I come across fictional swear word. Sure, I get the viewpoint that it's fantasy, it's an alternate world, lets see some alternate culture, but to me, that just reeks of a disguise: "let's make the books unoffensive". And sure, sometimes it's best to read a fantasy book that's fun, that's not trying to offend you, but I personally feel that having characters use swear words is a far cry from, say, graphically depicting rape. You can have one without having the other.

 

Of course, that's not really the fault of the books, rather, it's the fault of the masses for taking offense at words that have no meaning beyond what people prescribe to them.

 

Tracy Hickman and Margaret Weis came up with the idea for the Dragonlance series because they were playing D&D. And they've had as many NY Times best sellers as RJ.

 

Not sure how this backs up your assertion that they can write that "rogue type" character well? Stephenie Meyer has a ton of NY TImes best sellers, it doesn't help the quality of her writing any. tommyrocker has a very valid point, a good part of the reason why Brandon struggles with Mat is because that carousing, ladies man is so foreign to him. In turning Mat into a jester he "wrote the funny" out of him.

 

I don't think Mat's overall archetype is foreign to Sanderson, per se (everyone knows a "funny guy"), but rather, Mat in particular is. Pretty much every fantasy series as a stock reluctant hero and/or comic relief character, but Mat differs from quite a few of them. In fact, I'm actually quite impressed that Robert Jordan writes him as both a lecher and someone who comes off, at times, naive and even innocent. I don't write fanfic, so I've never attempted to write Mat, but I imagine that's the main thing that would make Mat a somewhat difficult character to pin down.

 

From what interviews I've seen of RJ, I'd argue that Mat seems as absent from his personality as it is from Sanderson's. It's just that the character is very particularly crafted by Jordan.

[Suttree]

From what interviews I've seen of RJ, I'd argue that Mat seems as absent from his personality as it is from Sanderson's. It's just that the character is very particularly crafted by Jordan.

 

Actually he said a combination of all three, with Mat being when he was younger a number of times.

 

Interview: Oct 11th, 2005

 

KOD Signing Report - NaClH2O (Paraphrased)

Question

 

The next question was "Are your characters based on real people?"

Robert Jordan

 

RJ's answer, "No" but he then said that there is at least one character trait of Harriet's in each of the main female characters. He gave the joke of Harriet is Semirhage when the garbage doesn't get taken out to the curb.

He then went on to talk about the male characters and himself. When he was growing up he most wanted to be someone like Lan. Rand exhibits many of the feelings he felt growing up. He was big for his age like Perrin, and learned to be careful around others as he might accidentally hurt someone. Most of his fights were with three or more kids.

He said that Harriet insists he's Loial "down to his toenails". He said he had no idea why, he doesn't even have tufted ears. (big laugh) Someone then shouted out "Mat?" "Mat is me as a teenager and into my early twenties"

 

Interview: Sep 4th, 2005

DragonCon Report - Matt Hatch (Verbatim)

Question

 

While reading the whole series of books, I find myself seeing some aspects of Mat, Rand, and Perrin. I was wondering as you were creating these characters, what parts of yourself did you see in these three characters and then what parts of yourself does your wife see in these characters that you have created?

Robert Jordan

 

Well, I dont know, as I like to point out, Lan was the guy I grew up wanting to emulate. Mat is the side of me that at fourteen was passing myself off at twenty and picking up college girls in bars on North Market St. Perrin is the side of me who knew I was bigger than kids of my own age, so I did not have a fight with any single person, there were some times where kids of my own age decided since I was too big to fight one-on-one, it was quite alright to come at me with five or six together, but the only fights I had one-on-one until I got into the army were with kids who were three to six years older than I was, because I was going to hurt the other guys, I was afraid of [hurting] kids of my own age, I would walk away from a fight with kid of my own age because I was bigger than he was, I was going to hurt him, there was that out of me in Perrin. And in Rand, I don't know, I don't know what there is of Rand in me, except that I always felt like an outsider, even when I was an insider, I felt like an outsider.

 

BS never had those experiences, and quite frankly it shows.

[GenPender]

Curious as to how you see ToM progressing from TGS? Most seem to think it was a hot mess and significant step backwards.

 

Interesting. I finished a re-read of ToM yesterday, and liked it quite a bit better than TGS. The main problem with ToM, in my opinion, is that so many sections were so obviously written by RJ, and the difference between them and those done by Sanderson (or perhaps done by RJ and then not properly edited, though I tend to doubt that) is so jarring that it took me out of the story. At times, I'd find myself trying to decide which author had written a certain section--though in truth, it didn't require much thought--or, in a Sanderson section, how it should have been written, rather than focusing on what was actually happening, which is a shame.

 

As for the OP, others have adequately pointed out the lackluster prose, lack of subtlety, and juvenile humor, so I won't spend any more time dwelling on those. I'm grateful to Sanderson for finishing the series, and look forward to reading the final installment, but won't be able to read it, or TGS or TOM, without a sense of regret.

[Yosarian]

Sanderson isn't really trying to imitate Jordan's writing style.

 

However, I think he did a really excellent job at capturing the characters and keeping them strong and consistant, and I think that's more important. I really enjoy his two books.

 

Also, I think his pacing was quite good, the pacing worked much better then in some of Jordan's later books.

[Suttree]

However, I think he did a really excellent job at capturing the characters and keeping them strong and consistant, and I think that's more important. I really enjoy his two books.

 

Surely you mean just certain characters such as Perrin? Characterization is not strong suit for Brandon and he has admitted flat out that he didn't understand Mat and botched him.

 

As an aside no one faults Brandon for not sounding like RJ or being as good as RJ can be. They fault him for not being as good as Brandon can be.

[Yosarian]

However, I think he did a really excellent job at capturing the characters and keeping them strong and consistant, and I think that's more important. I really enjoy his two books.

 

Surely you mean just certain characters such as Perrin? Characterization is not strong suit for Brandon and he has admitted flat out that he didn't understand Mat and botched him.

 

As an aside no one faults Brandon for not sounding like RJ or being as good as RJ can be. They fault him for not being as good as Brandon can be.

 

No, I mean all the characters.

 

It's a matter of opinion, I suppose, but as far as I'm concerned, the characters still felt like themselves in the last two books. They read like themselves, they talked like themselves, they acted like themselves. They just felt right. That was the biggest thing I was worried about, was that they would break down, but I think Brandon pulled it off. And, yeah, I'm including Mat in that.

[Suttree]

That was the biggest thing I was worried about, was that they would break down, but I think Brandon pulled it off. And, yeah, I'm including Mat in that.

 

Brandon disagrees with you...

 

BS

I didn't understand Mat. I tried so hard to make him funny, I wrote the HIM out of him".

 

Unfortunately it doesn't stop there. He fails on many characters especially when two people come into in conflict. His default setting is needing to make one person into an idiot in order for another to look good. It happens over and over again throughout the last two books with Brandon frequently leaning on fan gratification instead of solid writing to carry the narrative. Again he does very well with a few people, Perrin being the best. It's just too bad that characters do break down in a major way all too frequently. Unpolished prose and poor characterization come very close to spilling over into being the rule rather than the exception.

[shortkut]

That was the biggest thing I was worried about, was that they would break down, but I think Brandon pulled it off. And, yeah, I'm including Mat in that.

 

Brandon disagrees with you...

 

BS

I didn't understand Mat. I tried so hard to make him funny, I wrote the HIM out of him".

 

Unfortunately it doesn't stop there. He fails on many characters especially when two people come into in conflict. His default setting is needing to make one person into an idiot in order for another to look good. It happens over and over again throughout the last two books with Brandon frequently leaning on fan gratification instead of solid writing to carry the narrative. Again he does very well with a few people, Perrin being the best. It's just too bad that characters do break down in a major way all too frequently. Unpolished prose and poor characterization come very close to spilling over into being the rule rather than the exception.

what will it take to get you to stop discounting people's opinions? The Mat (and other characters) in Yosarian's head is(are) consistent and that is all that matters to him. Unlike many people, he is not having characters be ruined, so stop insisting he is wrong. Yes, BS thinks he changed Mat, but there will be some people who always read Mat like that. Let them continue to have that. There is a reason they are called opinions an the posts contain phrases like "I think"

[Suttree]

That was the biggest thing I was worried about, was that they would break down, but I think Brandon pulled it off. And, yeah, I'm including Mat in that.

 

Brandon disagrees with you...

 

BS

I didn't understand Mat. I tried so hard to make him funny, I wrote the HIM out of him".

 

Unfortunately it doesn't stop there. He fails on many characters especially when two people come into in conflict. His default setting is needing to make one person into an idiot in order for another to look good. It happens over and over again throughout the last two books with Brandon frequently leaning on fan gratification instead of solid writing to carry the narrative. Again he does very well with a few people, Perrin being the best. It's just too bad that characters do break down in a major way all too frequently. Unpolished prose and poor characterization come very close to spilling over into being the rule rather than the exception.

what will it take to get you to stop discounting people's opinions?

 

When they get it right? Lol no but seriously there really is no wrong opinion. All I did was offer a counter. Thats what people do on these forums as we discuss topics. It is rather silly however to insist the author pulled something off when the man himself admits he didn't.

[shortkut]

That was the biggest thing I was worried about, was that they would break down, but I think Brandon pulled it off. And, yeah, I'm including Mat in that.

 

Brandon disagrees with you...

 

BS

I didn't understand Mat. I tried so hard to make him funny, I wrote the HIM out of him".

 

Unfortunately it doesn't stop there. He fails on many characters especially when two people come into in conflict. His default setting is needing to make one person into an idiot in order for another to look good. It happens over and over again throughout the last two books with Brandon frequently leaning on fan gratification instead of solid writing to carry the narrative. Again he does very well with a few people, Perrin being the best. It's just too bad that characters do break down in a major way all too frequently. Unpolished prose and poor characterization come very close to spilling over into being the rule rather than the exception.

what will it take to get you to stop discounting people's opinions?

 

When they get it right? Lol no but seriously there really is no wrong opinion. All I did was offer a counter. Thats what people do on these forums as we discuss topics. It is rather silly however to insist the author pulled something off when the man himself admits he didn't.

there is a difference between opinions on a theory and opinions on if someone likes what they are reading. You, Luckers, and others including BS himself do not like the way mat was written. Some people did, or at the very least thought he behaved like the old mat. They are not believing that taim is demandred who is also moridin. Do you see which opinions should be corrected and which ones shouldn't? The arrogance here that people cannot enjoy certain aspects of tgs/tom because the majority agree it should have been a certain way astounds me at DM. We care so much about the code of conduct that we ignore shit like this that is more detrimental to an online community than slight name calling.

[Suttree]

That was the biggest thing I was worried about, was that they would break down, but I think Brandon pulled it off. And, yeah, I'm including Mat in that.

 

Brandon disagrees with you...

 

BS

I didn't understand Mat. I tried so hard to make him funny, I wrote the HIM out of him".

 

Unfortunately it doesn't stop there. He fails on many characters especially when two people come into in conflict. His default setting is needing to make one person into an idiot in order for another to look good. It happens over and over again throughout the last two books with Brandon frequently leaning on fan gratification instead of solid writing to carry the narrative. Again he does very well with a few people, Perrin being the best. It's just too bad that characters do break down in a major way all too frequently. Unpolished prose and poor characterization come very close to spilling over into being the rule rather than the exception.

what will it take to get you to stop discounting people's opinions?

 

When they get it right? Lol no but seriously there really is no wrong opinion. All I did was offer a counter. Thats what people do on these forums as we discuss topics. It is rather silly however to insist the author pulled something off when the man himself admits he didn't.

there is a difference between opinions on a theory and opinions on if someone likes what they are reading. You, Luckers, and others including BS himself do not like the way mat was written. Some people did, or at the very least thought he behaved like the old mat. They are not believing that taim is demandred who is also moridin. Do you see which opinions should be corrected and which ones shouldn't? The arrogance here that people cannot enjoy certain aspects of tgs/tom because the majority agree it should have been a certain way astounds me at DM. We care so much about the code of conduct that we ignore shit like this that is more detrimental to an online community than slight name calling.

 

Yos and I were having a discussion about Brandons work. As I said there are no wrong opinions and no has ever said they can't enjoy the books. If you don't agree show us how you think he did a great job with Mat. I will ask you once again however to please focus on the text and not me and more importantly please stop attempting to dictate what people can discuss. If there is an issue a mod will address it. Yos offered an opinion, I asked him to clarify it and showed him that Brandon disagreed. Next he will probably answer with why he doesnt mind the changes/thought Mat was on the mark. We are critiquing a work of literature, no one is correcting anything. Please let us get back on topic and leave off with the odd rants.