Who was The Black Sister that Warded the Dragkhar's presence from Moiraine, Adeleas and Vandene in TGH?

[The Fisher King]

?

 

 

Fish

 

 

P.S This related tangentally to AMOL as it seems there is a lot of this going on from the AMOL Prologue.

[dwn]

I don't think it's every explicitly stated, but back in the day Liandrin was generally assumed to be the one who did it. Both she and Verin left the Amyrlin's entourage after Moiraine took off, and we know where Verin went.

 

Warding Shadowspawn from detection seems like the sort of weave most Black Sisters would know.

 

-- dwn

[yoniy0]

I'm more interested in the other thing you said, Fish. Which Shadowspawn were Warded in the prologue, do you figure? And for what use?

[Barid Bel Medar]

I'm more interested in the other thing you said, Fish. Which Shadowspawn were Warded in the prologue, do you figure? And for what use?

 

I think he was referring to the presence of Dreadlord women in the "Town".

 

I assume that suspicion would be raised over 13 Black Sisters being absent for possibly weeks, last seen entering the Blight. (this is before Travelling is re-discovered, and there is no indication the Forsaken gave the talent to many Blacks, only Liandrin and that was not something Mesaana particularly enjoyed.)

 

My thoughts is perhaps there are Dreadlords, not Black Aes Sedai, permanently on call for the DO, whether they live in the "Town" I don't know, but it seems like constant presence over the years would be needed. It is hard to see 13 Blacks being sent for every time one of the Aiel channellers are captured. It would be noticed.

 

They were in the borderlands, so I think that there is a possibility that Dreadlords in the Blight sent the Drakghar, not necessarily a Black.

[yoniy0]

Why would it be noticed? It's strong custom not to interfere with another sister outside TV. They can go as they will.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Why would it be noticed? It's strong custom not to interfere with another sister outside TV. They can go as they will.

 

I would object and say that the practise is too glaringly suspicious, but considering the state of Aes Sedai pre Egwene, I can believe it.

[MasterAblar]

There were like 200 dark Aes Sedai before the books started. If they were careful to rotate the sister who went into the blight, and of course make sure they don't go together they should have passed unnoticed I think. And they might only call them there when they've caught a certain number of Aiel channellers.

[Sid]

Wouldn't they have enough women that can channel from that town over the years to not have to rely on Black Ajah Aes Sedai all the time to turn newcomers?

[MasterAblar]

Wouldn't they have enough women that can channel from that town over the years to not have to rely on Black Ajah Aes Sedai all the time to turn newcomers?

 

You would think, but then what was with the carriage and the thirteen women inside?

[Sid]

Thirteen women that could channel being brought to wherever they needed to go, presumably to turn some Aielman? They don't necessarily have to be Aes Sedai just because they're in carriages.

[MasterAblar]

Thirteen women that could channel being brought to wherever they needed to go, presumably to turn some Aielman? They don't necessarily have to be Aes Sedai just because they're in carriages.

 

Well yeah but if they're in a carriage I imagine they're coming form out of town. Otherwise they could just walk, like everyody else. I mean this is just a small town, not Caemlyn.

[Neophyte]

Thirteen women that could channel being brought to wherever they needed to go, presumably to turn some Aielman? They don't necessarily have to be Aes Sedai just because they're in carriages.

 

Well yeah but if they're in a carriage I imagine they're coming form out of town. Otherwise they could just walk, like everyody else. I mean this is just a small town, not Caemlyn.

 

Just because they can walk doesn't mean they're going to. It could be a symbol of status as well. Also, the Town doesn't strike me as the safest place for a stroll ... it could be a security thing too.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Thirteen women that could channel being brought to wherever they needed to go, presumably to turn some Aielman? They don't necessarily have to be Aes Sedai just because they're in carriages.

 

Well yeah but if they're in a carriage I imagine they're coming form out of town. Otherwise they could just walk, like everyody else. I mean this is just a small town, not Caemlyn.

 

Would you want to walk through a town full of crazy Aiel death machines, across the valley of Thandak'ar, across ANYWHERE in the Blight? I certainly wouldn't.

[The Fisher King]

Thanks everyone.

 

YoniyO - Barid Bel Medar hit on where my thoughts are.

 

 

Fish

[MasterAblar]

Thirteen women that could channel being brought to wherever they needed to go, presumably to turn some Aielman? They don't necessarily have to be Aes Sedai just because they're in carriages.

 

Well yeah but if they're in a carriage I imagine they're coming form out of town. Otherwise they could just walk, like everyody else. I mean this is just a small town, not Caemlyn.

 

Just because they can walk doesn't mean they're going to. It could be a symbol of status as well. Also, the Town doesn't strike me as the safest place for a stroll ... it could be a security thing too.

 

If these women are supposed to be red veiled Aiel, I'm thinking they don't have much to worry about walking around that Town. It seems to that people should be weary of walking near them. Aes Sedai on the other hand would be using a carriage, for the very reasons you gave.

 

Thirteen women that could channel being brought to wherever they needed to go, presumably to turn some Aielman? They don't necessarily have to be Aes Sedai just because they're in carriages.

 

Well yeah but if they're in a carriage I imagine they're coming form out of town. Otherwise they could just walk, like everyody else. I mean this is just a small town, not Caemlyn.

 

Would you want to walk through a town full of crazy Aiel death machines, across the valley of Thandak'ar, across ANYWHERE in the Blight? I certainly wouldn't.

 

These women are the crazy Aiel death machines according to Sid. That's why I'm saying it's more likely they're Aes Sedai, as they're far more likely to be using a carriage than any Aiel.

[Neophyte]

Thirteen women that could channel being brought to wherever they needed to go, presumably to turn some Aielman? They don't necessarily have to be Aes Sedai just because they're in carriages.

 

Well yeah but if they're in a carriage I imagine they're coming form out of town. Otherwise they could just walk, like everyody else. I mean this is just a small town, not Caemlyn.

 

Just because they can walk doesn't mean they're going to. It could be a symbol of status as well. Also, the Town doesn't strike me as the safest place for a stroll ... it could be a security thing too.

 

If these women are supposed to be red veiled Aiel, I'm thinking they don't have much to worry about walking around that Town. It seems to that people should be weary of walking near them. Aes Sedai on the other hand would be using a carriage, for the very reasons you gave.

 

I don't have a problem with it being Aes Sedai. In fact, as far as I can tell, the Samma N'Sei may be exclusively male. But even if they aren't official Black Ajah, they might be riding in the carriage to show status, and/or for their own protection. I doubt that the men who are Turned harbor warm fuzzy feelings for the ones who Turned them. It probably doesn't pay to be an unaccompanied female channeler, Aes Sedai or not, in the Town. Actually, it probably doesn't pay to be an unaccompanied female of any kind in the Town.

[Sid]

These women are the crazy Aiel death machines according to Sid.

 

That's not what I'm saying at all. Aiel didn't send their female channelers up to the waste, but they did capture females from the Borderlands with some regularity. Likely some were kept alive for breeding purposes, and female children that can channel would be especially useful for that. I doubt any females would be trained to be crazy Aiel death machines, but aside from their other purpose, using them to turn newcomers to the Shadow would be something else they could do, with no need to assemble Black Ajah sisters every time it happened.

 

The logistics of getting thirteen black sisters up there every time they needed to turn a new 'recruit' without the benefit of Traveling (it's been going on for 2000 years) would be... difficult.

 

I'm aware that this isn't exactly a pleasant thought, but these aren't pleasant people either.

[MasterAblar]

I don't have a problem with it being Aes Sedai. In fact, as far as I can tell, the Samma N'Sei may be exclusively male. But even if they aren't official Black Ajah, they might be riding in the carriage to show status, and/or for their own protection. I doubt that the men who are Turned harbor warm fuzzy feelings for the ones who Turned them. It probably doesn't pay to be an unaccompanied female channeler, Aes Sedai or not, in the Town. Actually, it probably doesn't pay to be an unaccompanied female of any kind in the Town.

 

Hmm, well, I suppose what I was thinking was that any female channeller would have been taught the same as the male channellers. They would have been taught, brought up, and quite possibly turned just like the men, and would be just as dangerous as any of them. I see what you mean about the men not being particularly fond of women who have turned them, but then I imagine that many of the women were turned as well.

 

Of course I believe it was Aes Sedai in the carriage, I'm just trying to explain why, insane as this explanation may sound.

 

These women are the crazy Aiel death machines according to Sid.

 

That's not what I'm saying at all. Aiel didn't send their female channelers up to the waste, but they did capture females from the Borderlands with some regularity. Likely some were kept alive for breeding purposes, and female children that can channel would be especially useful for that. I doubt any females would be trained to be crazy Aiel death machines, but aside from their other purpose, using them to turn newcomers to the Shadow would be something else they could do, with no need to assemble Black Ajah sisters every time it happened.

 

The logistics of getting thirteen black sisters up there every time they needed to turn a new 'recruit' without the benefit of Traveling (it's been going on for 2000 years) would be... difficult.

 

I'm aware that this isn't exactly a pleasant thought, but these aren't pleasant people either.

 

I definitely agree that it would be simpler to simply have female channellers up there at all times, but why do you think that those female channellers would not have been taught the same as any male channellers who would have been bred?

[yoniy0]

Does anyone else thing that this means Alviarin probably never saw Thakan'dar, or even the lightning striking up from SG?

There would be two in any case, whether he answered her with suitable lies or not; she did not mean to let him live. "I have seen Thakan'dar." Saying that hurt; the memories it brought were agony. He refused to whimper, forced the words out. "The great sea of fog, rolling and crashing in silence against the black cliffs, the fires of the forges glowing red beneath, and lightning stabbing up into a sky fit to drive men mad." He did not want to go on, but he made himself. "I have taken the path down to the belly of Shayol Ghul, down the long way with stones like fangs brushing my head, to the shore of a lake of fire and molten rock-" No, not again! "-that holds the Great Lord of the Dark in ,its endless depths. The heavens above Shayol Ghul are black at noon with his breath."

Alviarin was standing upright now, eyes wide. Not fearful, but impressed. "I have heard of..." she began softly, then shook herself and stared at him piercingly.

[TootThatHorn]

Does anyone else thing that this means Alviarin probably never saw Thakan'dar, or even the lightning striking up from SG?

There would be two in any case, whether he answered her with suitable lies or not; she did not mean to let him live. "I have seen Thakan'dar." Saying that hurt; the memories it brought were agony. He refused to whimper, forced the words out. "The great sea of fog, rolling and crashing in silence against the black cliffs, the fires of the forges glowing red beneath, and lightning stabbing up into a sky fit to drive men mad." He did not want to go on, but he made himself. "I have taken the path down to the belly of Shayol Ghul, down the long way with stones like fangs brushing my head, to the shore of a lake of fire and molten rock-" No, not again! "-that holds the Great Lord of the Dark in ,its endless depths. The heavens above Shayol Ghul are black at noon with his breath."

Alviarin was standing upright now, eyes wide. Not fearful, but impressed. "I have heard of..." she began softly, then shook herself and stared at him piercingly.

 

The bold is an interesting line. Rand could bring the sun but be in such a battle that the sky doesn't know what to do.

[The Fisher King]

Cool thought, Toot.

 

 

Fish

[dwn]

Does anyone else thing that this means Alviarin probably never saw Thakan'dar, or even the lightning striking up from SG?

There would be two in any case, whether he answered her with suitable lies or not; she did not mean to let him live. "I have seen Thakan'dar." Saying that hurt; the memories it brought were agony. He refused to whimper, forced the words out. "The great sea of fog, rolling and crashing in silence against the black cliffs, the fires of the forges glowing red beneath, and lightning stabbing up into a sky fit to drive men mad." He did not want to go on, but he made himself. "I have taken the path down to the belly of Shayol Ghul, down the long way with stones like fangs brushing my head, to the shore of a lake of fire and molten rock-" No, not again! "-that holds the Great Lord of the Dark in ,its endless depths. The heavens above Shayol Ghul are black at noon with his breath."

Alviarin was standing upright now, eyes wide. Not fearful, but impressed. "I have heard of..." she began softly, then shook herself and stared at him piercingly.

 

It could mean she's never seen it herself. It could also mean she has, but never been taken down into the Pit of Doom. As head of the BA, I think it's likely she's seen Shayol Ghul (and Thakan'dar), in one of Ishy's dreamshards if nothing else. Also, Fain is using the description as kind of a secret handshake there, which suggests that he at least thinks all BA should recognize the description.

 

-- dwn

[The Fisher King]

Yeah. Padan is trying to intimidate her.

 

He did, too.

 

 

Fish

[yoniy0]

Not all DF, just Alviarin. And he was right, she does recognize it, just not from her own experience. Whether or not that's about the path down into the Pit of Doom or the whole thing, I really can't say.

[makaveli422]

I'm not sure if the carriages had Aes Sedai or not but I do remember that one of the Black Sisters that we had a POV from (Liandrin I think), hates wilders even though she was technically one herself because she had learned to channel years before going to the White Tower. So she was already sworn to the Dark and was taught to channel by the time she made it to the White Tower. I have always wondered who taught her? Maybe the females from the Town?