Prologue Spoilers - Emarin

[Terez]

ETA: What about Talmanes btw?

 

Joline.

[MauricXe]

Isn't Eladia a lesbian? I vaguely remember one of the sisters, Elaida iirc, had a sour relationship with another sister because Elaida tried to continue being pillow friends...but was rejected.

[Suttree]

Isn't Eladia a lesbian? I vaguely remember one of the sisters, Elaida iirc, had a sour relationship with another sister because Elaida tried to continue being pillow friends...but was rejected.

 

That was Galina...

[Pinzarn]

Personally, I think Luckers has made a good point, but I don't see these minor characters as being important enough to warrant BS mentioning the gay character. Talmanes on the other hand...

[MauricXe]

Isn't Eladia a lesbian? I vaguely remember one of the sisters, Elaida iirc, had a sour relationship with another sister because Elaida tried to continue being pillow friends...but was rejected.

 

That was Galina...

 

ty.

[Neophyte]

Isn't Eladia a lesbian? I vaguely remember one of the sisters, Elaida iirc, had a sour relationship with another sister because Elaida tried to continue being pillow friends...but was rejected.

 

That was Galina...

 

ty.

 

Elaida was pillow-friends with Meidani when they were novices together. Meidani was ordered by Yukiri to renew that relationship, in order to help the Black Ajah Hunters prior to the reunification of the Tower.

[Orderofolde]

Good point on Canler; that means both of Luckers' proposed gay characters are established heteros. And Brandon said gay, not bi, and he established that the notes didn't say either way. Androl is still the best bet IMO; I didn't get the slightest hint of romance between him and Pevara. Warder bond, probably. Sex, highly unlikely.

Actually, there were multiple instances of them being surprised at each other, of Androl admiring Pevara's calm control, of her being surprised at him being the weakest channeler (yet the leader), etc. all of which point to a budding romance.

 

On the other hand, the mere act of marriage and having children doesn't make a gay person bi.

Exactly. I think the term is "beard" for that kind of relationship. Even more so it is a lord's duty to continue his line by having heirs.

[Terez]

Beards only make sense in a world that has prejudices against homosexuality. The WoT world does not. And while Algarin might have had a duty to produce heirs, Canler did not.

[usuallurker]

I find it kind of hard to believe there is no prejudice against gays in WoT seeing as to.how ubiquitous it is in ours... Besides, there seems to be plenty of prejudice against channelers, against men, and between nations. Why should gays get a free pass? I think it makes sense that there wouldn't be the hardcore demonization you find in our world since they don't need to make up evil in theirs. But if Jordan has said there is no homophobia in WoT, that's the most unbelievable part of the series to me. Minus the magic.

 

Tarna, at least, seems to think that gays are arrested adolescents, which plenty of people think is homophobic

 

Also, its not even true that gay guys wouldn't have beards w/o social disapproval of homosexuality. Plenty of gay guys get married and have kids because they want a family life. I know this because I've known them. Some of them were even raised in subcultures that are very accepting of gays. And don't underestimate the desire to be normal even when abnormality isn't stigmatized.

 

Anyway I think Emarin is the gay guy. I also think Brandon tries to get the gay wit down with him but doesn't quite get it. He should have gotten help from a gay writer.

 

Also kind of off-topic but I have to vent about how stupid it is that Brandon has evil characters think "darkness within!" instead of "light!" The worst was when Sheriam did it. Yeah, I'm sure a black sister would train herself to think dark friend specific oaths just so she can blurt one out in surprise one day in front of half the tower. ::eye roll::

[Terez]

I find it kind of hard to believe there is no prejudice against gays in WoT seeing as to.how ubiquitous it is in ours...

 

Whether or not you think it's realistic, it's what RJ said. If you study the history of homosexuality, you find that prejudice is more common in patriarchal societies where some kind of arbitrary value is assigned to an arbitrary definition of 'manliness'. No one cared about lesbians (or women in general) enough to write about them. Societies where women have more equality or power are less likely to discriminate against homosexuality because divergence from perceived manliness is not considered a weakness.

 

And again, Brandon specifically said that the gay character had no apparent preference. He wouldn't have said that about a man with children.

[Suttree]

I find it kind of hard to believe there is no prejudice against gays in WoT seeing as to.how ubiquitous it is in ours... Besides, there seems to be plenty of prejudice against channelers, against men, and between nations. Why should gays get a free pass? I think it makes sense that there wouldn't be the hardcore demonization you find in our world since they don't need to make up evil in theirs. But if Jordan has said there is no homophobia in WoT, that's the most unbelievable part of the series to me. Minus the magic.

 

 

Interview: Oct 6th, 2005

Robert Jordan's Blog: AND ONE MORE TIME

Robert Jordan

 

 

For jofraz, I have gay and lesbian characters in my books, but the only time it has really come into the open is with the Aes Sedai because I haven't been inside the heads of any other characters who are either gay or bi. For the most part, in this world such things are taken as a matter of course. Remember, Cadsuane is surprised that Shalon and Ailil were so hot to hide that they had been sharing a bed even knowing how prim and proper Cairhienin are on the surface. Well, for many it is just on the surface.

 

Edit: Terez got me. Par for the course

[usuallurker]

To say things are just taken as a matter of course in society doesn't necessarily mean that individuals have no prejudice against it. We were privy to Tarna's thoughts on lesbianism, and like I said, she seemed to pretty much consider it a form of arrested adolescence. She may have taken its occurrence as an inevitably, but she certainly didn't consider it equivalent to heterosexuality. Anyway, my comment was in response to the statement that there's no need for beards in a society where there is no prejudice against homosexuality, which isn't true.

 

I still would put money on the gay character being Emarin based on how Brandon wrote him, notwithstanding the fact that Emarin has kids.

[Terez]

Money, eh? I'll take that bet.

[Luckers]

I find it kind of hard to believe there is no prejudice against gays in WoT seeing as to.how ubiquitous it is in ours...

 

Whether or not you think it's realistic, it's what RJ said. If you study the history of homosexuality, you find that prejudice is more common in patriarchal societies where some kind of arbitrary value is assigned to an arbitrary definition of 'manliness'. No one cared about lesbians (or women in general) enough to write about them. Societies where women have more equality or power are less likely to discriminate against homosexuality because divergence from perceived manliness is not considered a weakness.

 

And again, Brandon specifically said that the gay character had no apparent preference. He wouldn't have said that about a man with children.

 

Unless he forgot the man had children. I agree Canler is obvious, and give up that claim, but Algarin's children was one reference in CoT. And Brandon is... Brandon.

[Terez]

By the way, there is a difference between prejudice against homosexual people and what we saw with Tarna. She doesn't think less of Galina because Galina is a lesbian, and she even acknowledges that other sisters (legitimately) disagree.

[Sid]

Unless he forgot the man had children. I agree Canler is obvious, and give up that claim, but Algarin's children was one reference in CoT. And Brandon is... Brandon.

 

When this topic was started, I dug out CoT and re-read that Cadsuane chapter, and it was all falling into place... until the end when she mentioned offhand his kids had grown up and moved away. I can totally see him just skimming/skipping a CoT Cads chapter based on... other things we've seen.

[Sharaman]

FWIW wouldn't you expect Maria or Harriet or whoever vets the continuity to point out that Emarin had kids even if Brandon forgot?

Also it's there in the online encyclopaedia innit?

Taim might be bi I think - he watches Elayne's butt but he's also built a Ernst Rohm-ist / Spartan army core group of lads and maybe it's one of those chaps who's the gay Ashaman?

Also Moridin is worth speculating about, beyond his enthusiasm for flambed rat and generalised torture, we know nix about his sexual orientation.

[Sid]

Also it's there in the online encyclopaedia innit?

Actually, it is not mentioned on EWoT. I looked there first, then read the chapter to check.

[MarkDiLillo]

FWIW wouldn't you expect Maria or Harriet or whoever vets the continuity to point out that Emarin had kids even if Brandon forgot?

Also it's there in the online encyclopaedia innit?

Taim might be bi I think - he watches Elayne's butt but he's also built a Ernst Rohm-ist / Spartan army core group of lads and maybe it's one of those chaps who's the gay Ashaman?

Also Moridin is worth speculating about, beyond his enthusiasm for flambed rat and generalised torture, we know nix about his sexual orientation.

 

It is back handedly implied that Moridin is having his way with Cyndane. This can definitely be argued either way, but I got that impression after the Forsaken meeting where he orders everyone to kill Rand at the cleansing.

[Mr Hindley]

ETA: What about Talmanes btw?

 

Joline.

 

'Joline. Joline. Joline JO-LIIIIIINE. I'm begging of you please don't take my man...'

 

Sorry. Couldn't resist. OK, back to the serious discussion.

[The Fisher King]

OMG you guys!!!...if you rearrange the letters..."Emarin" is an anagram for DEMANDRED!!!!

 

 

Fish.

 

P.S. Oooooh. Wait. **Counts again.** ...No. No its not.

[Neophyte]

OMG you guys!!!...if you rearrange the letters..."Emarin" is an anagram for DEMANDRED!!!!

 

 

Fish.

 

P.S. Oooooh. Wait. **Counts again.** ...No. No its not.

 

But every letter in "Emarin" is in "Demandred" except for the "i" ... as in I AM DEMANDRED!!!!

 

Is this spam yet?

[The Fisher King]

Not if its true.

 

 

Fish

[Luckers]

You both amuse me. Carry on.

 

FWIW wouldn't you expect Maria or Harriet or whoever vets the continuity to point out that Emarin had kids even if Brandon forgot?

Also it's there in the online encyclopaedia innit?

Taim might be bi I think - he watches Elayne's butt but he's also built a Ernst Rohm-ist / Spartan army core group of lads and maybe it's one of those chaps who's the gay Ashaman?

Also Moridin is worth speculating about, beyond his enthusiasm for flambed rat and generalised torture, we know nix about his sexual orientation.

 

Brandon mostly relies on the eWoT. Maria and co. don't fact check until after its written, and again it would be an easy point to miss. That being said, that he has kids is no reason he can't be gay. Sexuality is much more fluid in Wheel culture, without the clear cut definitions we place on it. He could be an inverse Moiraine or Siuan.

 

As for Moridin, I asked Brandon and he stated the notes didn't say one way or the other about his sexuality. I think he's more asexual than anything else.

[Linda]

Regarding Canler, can i just say that he is the guy who invented the weave for Asha'man bonding his wives so that each partner knows how the other one is.