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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

Lack of communication; Lack of travelling


nathabj
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This is my first post on here, and I know I have seen people post similar things, but I can't seem to find a thread specifically about this, rather than it being mentioned in passing in threads of criticisms of the series.

 

I am rereading book 6 right now, and I just read Matt saying how rand opens a gateway into his room and talks to him in the middle of the night, and then leaves. I love these books, they are by far my favorite books series ever, but this is driving me nuts. It seems so unrealistic. Why won't the good guys talk to each other. Why is it all secrets and intrigue? Why are they so selfish? I tell people my plans in detail and get help from others, and that's for things like going camping or watching the game. They are supposed to hold the fate of the world in their hands, and they won't talk to each other. Why don't Rand and Moraine tell each other the answers they got in the red door frame? Why can't Rand visit all of his kingdoms, including the Black Tower in one day. He never should've had problems with Taim. He could pop in there for an hour, an hour in Tear, and hour in Illian, an hour in Cairhien, and hour in Camelyn, an hour in the waste. I mean, thats like an 8 hourish in a day. While he is at it, he could go see what Matt is up to and Perrin. If not every day, then why not every other...twice a week? Why don't they all discuss plans instead of all pursuing their own agenda. If I had been in that situation, we wouldve long ago all gotten together and discussed plans. The Seanchan wouldn't have been as big of a problem, because he couldve sent Ashaman (which would be his because he was involved with them) through gateways and dominated their damane houses, killed tuon, galgan, whoever is in charge at that time. They could've already destroyed all of the way gates the shadowspawn travel through, crushed all opposition, and been done with the FoM nonsense long ago. But instead everyone is doing their own thing, and doing it selfishly. Why is Perrin Chasing Faile for three books? Instead, pop up to the BT and say, "Taim remember that army you sent that dominated the shaido? We are gonna go do that one more time, and get Faile out...that way Perrin won't be walking through the snow for three books." Maybe instead of the long drawn out succession, Rand can pop in, say "Elayne is queen, stop bickering and build me an army!" "and btw Elayne, the dragons are mine, quick bartering when we are talking about the end of the world and help the light out for goodness sakes." Why does Rand face Tuon without Perrin, who allied with them, and Mat, who is married to her, and both are taverenn,,,bet she says yes to all three taverenn, including ally and husband...if rand had taken 5 minutes out of his often chatting with min and or casuane, he couldve popped into their camps and known about those advantages and had them there...6,7,8,9 (excluding the cleansing) and 10 just feel drawn out way too much. So much time could have been saved with a little humility and a little communication and intelligence. I know this sounds like I am ranting, but it never really bothered me much until I read this. Rand and Mat know they can communicate frequently, but instead they do their own things and try not to be bothered by the awesome rainbow facetime. The light is so spread out and unorganized, so thank God that the forsaken, the greatest channellers the dark converted in the age of legends, are complete morons as well. Seriously, the light couldve been ready to dominate long ago. Since they weren't, they couldve been destroyed by the dark long ago.

 

Good thing is, I am about to read the prologue, and when this book comes out, it pretty much has to be all action. They are finally gonna work together!

 

Hope that didn't come off as too negative, like i said, never bothered me before, but with them using it that way that early on, I feel like they could have been much more efficient.

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i think the whole lack of communication thing was such a big thing cause originally the books were meant to be a trilogy then 6 books then more and robert jordan wanted everyone to go off on there own establish themselves then make a climatic ending by everyone reuniting again after such a long break from seeing each other ready to take on the last battle more experienced and the excitement of these characters seeing each other again for the first time in what 9 books.

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I have two thoughts on this subject (at least, right now).

 

One: RJ was clearly aware of this, and it was, at least to a degree, intentional. Said he in his blog:

 

Now as to communications and the lack thereof, these things are not commentaries on any sort of technologies. They are a commentary on the human navel. Do you really know anybody who actually tells everything he or she knows to everybody? Even when they really need to know? Maybe especially when they really need to know. Do you really trust people who think they always know what other people really need to know? May I postulate that this person has few close friends, those quite quiet when around him or her? There are a thousand reasons why we don't tell everything to everybody, including often things that we should tell. Maybe the information puts us in a bad light, so we withhold information, or perhaps shade the truth a bit. That's one of the most common. Or maybe we think the other person must already know because it is so obvious. Which can add the factor that we don't want to appear foolish for pointing out that the sky seems to be blue today. Or maybe we just didn't bloody well think of it. It has always struck me how unrealistic, how incredibly fortuitous -- you hink ta’veren are centers of unrealistic coincidence? Huh! -- books are where almost everybody learns everything they need to know as soon as they need to know it, where almost nobody of any note or importance ever has to make decisions based on incomplete information, information that the reader may know is at least partly wrong. Lord, even when they just learn almost everything they need to know exactly when they need to know it, matters seem just too far-fetched. No, it isn't a commentary on technology. Just people.

 

(Found here: http://www.dragonmou...-this-and-that/)

 

So, Jordan believes that people just don't talk to each other nearly as much as we, as objective viewers, might like them to. And I think he has a point. But, to go on to my second thought ...

 

 

Two: Although Jordan says that it was not his intent to comment on technology, I think that our expectations for communication might be shaped by our technology. We live in a time and place where people tell the whole bloody world what they're having for dinner with Twitter or Facebook. Heck, my own mother (a saint, by the way) posts the number of calories she burned each day on her daily afternoon walks! I mean, that's nice ma, but seriously?

 

If anything, we live in an over-communicated world, so our expectations are pretty high. Of course we would tell our friends all these things that no one seems to be telling anyone else! But that level of communication is a very, very new thing - it would be unrealistic for the characters in the books to think of communication in the same way.

Edited by Neophyte
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I think the way RJ wrote it is mostly very realistic. Rand in LTT-mode after his coronation on the mountain WOULD indeed visit everyone and take care of things properly. Pre-mountain though...Rand was a kid with no experience in any leadership role whatsoever, had people pulling him in every direction, and was constantly suspicious of people trying to not only use him to further their own goals but also of the shadow.

 

The unfortunate truth is that most grown adults act the same way as the books do and it is only the exceptional leaders in business that act the way you suggest. Very exceptional ones. Day to day details bog people down and most don't find communication that important because you assume that everyone else can carry out their tasks alone without supervision.

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I agree with the OP. My first time reading this series i thought the exact same thing. The three ta'veren are child hood friends, grown up together, played together, laughed together, Got in trouble together etc .. you would think with there connection, also all 3 knowing there tied together to save the world, and the use of travelling specillly later on with the ashamen being involved they would talk/meet up more.

 

After book , there never all in the same room again .. which is annoying when you think about it. They even have Mins viewing where when the three are together there sparks or light over come the darkness. You would think they would stat together and help eachother out with all this knolledge of what they are and what they must do.

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The worst thing about travelling IMO is in the siege. The boats don't stop within a couple of days of Tar Valon for fear of being seized and Bryne is being berated by the AS for not being able to block the harbors. Why didn't they just travel a week upriver and grab a boat there? Never made sense at all to me.

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I guess that it was just frustrating seeing that they had done it before. If they had never thought about using it that way, ok...but they had. I just don't think they would've had to change that much about the story to have people pop in and know whats going on. Instead, Mat and Perrin and Rand constantly see each other and say stuff like "where is he?" just like 20 minutes out of the day could be spent so there was more coordination... And I'm not all in favor of telling everything, but I do see your point about technology. Nevertheless, I still tell people when I have important plans, especially my best friends when those plans relate to them. I gues the separation made the reunions a bigger deal though...Seriously, when Mat catches a badger to go see Perrin...one of the funnier moments in the books in my opinion. just a rant I wanted to get off my chest...from now on I suppose I won't have to worry about it...and I am glad that the prologue covers the issue in Camelyn.

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