"To live, you must die" Rands death.

[RahulSingh]

I was always confused about this particular prophecy. "To live, you must die" and all the theories I have seen about how it will come to be seem too far fetched to believe. I was doing a re-read of the entire series and I reached the chapter in The Gathering Storm where Mat encounters the village Hinderstap and how the entire village goes mad at sunset and even if you are killed you are reborn the next morning in a bed somewhere in that village. In the chapter "Night in Hinderstap" the mayor explains to Mat that 'Some have tried ending their lives. We buried the bodies. They woke up the next morning in their beds.' Does it not seem plausible that Rand could spend a night in Hinderstap then do what needs to be at Shayol Ghul the next day. If he dies at Shayol Ghul he might still return to life the next waking up in a bed at Hinderstap. Rand has always struck me as the one who will try to go back to some form of the normal life he used to lead back in The Two Rivers. Hinderstap a village known for raising sheep away from everything else in the world might seem the perfect life he would like to lead after he is done being the Dragon Reborn. Its just something that struck me as odd since I have not seen any theories focusing on this. Any opinions?

 

 

 

 

 

*edited for font size.

[shortkut]

Not likely since hinderstrap seemed more to show how the pattern was unravelling and to make Mat cautious before he met Verin. We've seen no other mention of it to any charaves who was out there or so how would rand know of it?

[RahulSingh]

Well as to how rand would know of it.. I assume Mat would meet him before the Last Battle. I can see Hinderstap is just not featured and can turn out to be a hidden surprise, but it is a long shot type of deal.

[rand4747]

well after the darkone is resealed stuff like that should no longer happen, so it wouldn't work.

[RahulSingh]

do you think sealing the dark one will fix all the problems the world is facing in one day?

[Suttree]

Hinderstrap and it's zombie b-movie trappings was most certainly a "filler" detail added by Brandon Sanderson. It will not play any role in the final solution to this series. You would have a huge percentage of the fandom storming the gates if it were the case.

[RahulSingh]

lmao now that would be a sight to see.

[Terez]

You think that proven methods of resurrection that have been foreshadowed since the early books of the series are 'too far-fetched', but Hinderstap is believable? It boggles the mind.

[RahulSingh]

Proven methods such as?

[RahulSingh]

You think that proven methods of resurrection that have been foreshadowed since the early books of the series are 'too far-fetched', but Hinderstap is believable? It boggles the mind.

Or do you believe that the Dark One with resurrect the Dragon Reborn as you seem to imply with the statement above.

[snooze1128]

You think that proven methods of resurrection that have been foreshadowed since the early books of the series are 'too far-fetched', but Hinderstap is believable? It boggles the mind.

Or do you believe that the Dark One with resurrect the Dragon Reborn as you seem to imply with the statement above.

 

While Hinderstap is definitely an interesting case, I think Terez is trying to say that it's occupied such a small portion of the series, while a sort of resurrection from death has been foreshadowed frequently throughout the books. When this resurrection of Rand does finally occur, I expect a major character will be associated (most likely Nynuave, imo), and it will not have anything to do with Hinderstap. Plus, we don't even know how long Hinderstap has been happening for, or if it's still happening. We've seen bubbles of evil, and entire towns being absorbed into the Earth, but I always considered these things to be temporary, and thus I don't really have much reason to believe that Hinderstap will continue to provide zombies on a nightly basis, forever...

[Terez]

No, proven methods such as what Moghedien did to Birgitte.

[Matrim-Bloody-Cauthon]

Rand and moridin cross balefires again, stronger ones this time, and body swap. Alivia kills moridin in rands body... He now lives after he died. The end :p

[Diamondmask]

I have to agree with Matrim-Bloody-Cauthon, I suspect Moridin and Rand will swap bodies and Alivia will kill Moridin in Rand's body and then Rand can go off somewhere and live a quiet life on a farm with a face no one recognizes.Moridin is already feeling what Rand feels - when Rand lost his hand thanks to one of the Forsaken, Moridin felt it. He realized what was going on and ordered Rand not to be killed.

 

I hope Min goes with him and the other two go their own ways. Especially Elaine. Rand deserves better.

 

Of course he may just die but I will be gutted if that happens. That guy has suffered too much and deserves a happy ending.

[snooze1128]

I have to agree with Matrim-Bloody-Cauthon, I suspect Moridin and Rand will swap bodies and Alivia will kill Moridin in Rand's body and then Rand can go off somewhere and live a quiet life on a farm with a face no one recognizes.Moridin is already feeling what Rand feels - when Rand lost his hand thanks to one of the Forsaken, Moridin felt it. He realized what was going on and ordered Rand not to be killed.

 

I hope Min goes with him and the other two go their own ways. Especially Elaine. Rand deserves better.

 

Of course he may just die but I will be gutted if that happens. That guy has suffered too much and deserves a happy ending.

 

Not to dispute your argument, Diamondmask, but even if Rand survives the Last Battle, he is bound to die as a result of channeling tainted Saidin (yes, I know it is no longer Tainted), but I do believe that either Jordan or Sanderson said that Saidin only needs to be channeled once for the taint to induce premature death. Given that, I don't think Rand's future would be left to speculation: Either he dies at the last battle, or.... well, honestly, I'm not sure I like any other alternative to that!

[bcspeer]

But Nynaeve can heal the effects of the taint and even though she already tried with Rand, she might be able to fix him later on with more practice or if she links

[Valley of Death]

or Nyneave draws so much of the one power and resurrects Rand while burning herself out/killing herself seems the most likely to me

 

Its been foreshadowed and it fits with Nyneave being the Wisdom

 

And its been stated that really powerful Aes Sedia can do extradornary thing when they kill themselves on drawing to much one power. Like the queen of Manatheren killing all of trollocs in the trolloc wars.

[Suttree]

Not to dispute your argument, Diamondmask, but even if Rand survives the Last Battle, he is bound to die as a result of channeling tainted Saidin (yes, I know it is no longer Tainted), but I do believe that either Jordan or Sanderson said that Saidin only needs to be channeled once for the taint to induce premature death. Given that, I don't think Rand's future would be left to speculation: Either he dies at the last battle, or.... well, honestly, I'm not sure I like any other alternative to that!

 

I have never seen an author quote along those lines. We know that the damage from pre cleansing stays but as for channeling once inducing death I would like to see proof.

[snooze1128]

Not to dispute your argument, Diamondmask, but even if Rand survives the Last Battle, he is bound to die as a result of channeling tainted Saidin (yes, I know it is no longer Tainted), but I do believe that either Jordan or Sanderson said that Saidin only needs to be channeled once for the taint to induce premature death. Given that, I don't think Rand's future would be left to speculation: Either he dies at the last battle, or.... well, honestly, I'm not sure I like any other alternative to that!

 

I have never seen an author quote along those lines. We know that the damage from pre cleansing stays but as for channeling once inducing death I would like to see proof.

 

Drat, I wish I had the quote. It was a quote from either Jordan or Sanderson (I don't remember which), but it somebody asked whether or not channeling tainted Saidin guarantees death--and I believe he answered something along the lines of.. "yes, eventually".

I'll continue to look for the quote and will edit it in if I find it. You might be right, however, as I am not sure if the question was asked before or after the point in the series when the Taint was cleansed.

[joeron bigelow]

Has anyone discussed or figured out what Cadsuane is supposed to have taught the Asha men? Or just the men that channel with Rand?

 

It may be in another forum or stuff, but since it hasnt been revealed in any book so far, i figure it be in this book.

 

Min says Cad is gonna teach Rand something pretty important...and Cad was constantly trying to teach him something else about life besides manners. Could whatever Cad be teaching - be the part of the "to live must die" issue?

[bcspeer]

I assume it had something to do with Rand's laughter and tears and the Asha'men are men, not weapons. It might be something else but this is my best guess

[Suttree]

Has anyone discussed or figured out what Cadsuane is supposed to have taught the Asha men? Or just the men that channel with Rand?

 

It may be in another forum or stuff, but since it hasnt been revealed in any book so far, i figure it be in this book.

 

Min says Cad is gonna teach Rand something pretty important...and Cad was constantly trying to teach him something else about life besides manners. Could whatever Cad be teaching - be the part of the "to live must die" issue?

 

Well she vowed to teach him and the Ashaman "laughter and tears" and to be strong not hard. Her plan and final desperate measures ended up causing Rand to face his inner demons and she succeeded in giving the world a chance post TG now that he has changed.

[joeron bigelow]

Has anyone discussed or figured out what Cadsuane is supposed to have taught the Asha men? Or just the men that channel with Rand?

 

It may be in another forum or stuff, but since it hasnt been revealed in any book so far, i figure it be in this book.

 

Min says Cad is gonna teach Rand something pretty important...and Cad was constantly trying to teach him something else about life besides manners. Could whatever Cad be teaching - be the part of the "to live must die" issue?

 

Well she vowed to teach him and the Ashaman "laughter and tears" and to be strong not hard. Her plan and final desperate measures ended up causing Rand to face his inner demons and she succeeded in giving the world a chance post TG now that he has changed.

 

 

Dammit thats right...not live but laugh. But the little sister still didn't think her work was done when "new rand" spoke to her...btw, what do you dragonmount groupies call lews/rand combined? Does he have a nickname?

[Wolf505]

I believe the most common way to refer to post epiphany Rand is Zen Rand while the pre-VoG Rand from The Gathering Storm is referred to as Darth Rand.

[Luckers]

Jesus Rand and Rand Sedai are the other two commonly used.