The Heroes of the Horn

[RandA lThor]

I do not know if this has been talked about before, but i haven't seen it, so i am going to start a new topic if it has. I was wondering if Birgitte would still be one of the Heroes of the Horn when Mat sounds the Horn. Would there be an invincible and a normal Birgitte both fighting. Also, if she's not, does that mean that anyone else who has been born into the cycle already cannot be called at that moment?

[Durinax]

she is a her of the horn but not waiting in TAR so she cannot be called by the horn

[RandA lThor]

but neither is Gaidal, he has been reborn, so will he not come either

[Durinax]

exactly, the heroes will be less in number when mat blows it this time, so it is a less effective weapon.

 

another way to think of the horn is a anti dark dragon weapon, if the dragon goes evil then there will be mass chaos and slaughter, in which any heroes which would have been reborn will likely be killed, returned to TAR where they can be called by the horn to save the day. So it is a method of checks and balances based on what the dragon does

[TristanWebb]

We have no idea how many were already alive and have died to be rebound though, so saying there is less is misleading.

[RandA lThor]

If they have all been reborn, then the Horn wouldn't work, that would be an interesting twist.

[Suttree]

exactly, the heroes will be less in number when mat blows it this time, so it is a less effective weapon.

 

There is absolutely nothing to support that opinion. In addition event if Birgitte and Gaidal make two less and none of the other heroes were born already that still would only place Gaidal without a in the LB. I hardly think that makes enough of a difference to call it less effective.

 

Lastly not sure why you place the main significance of the Horn as being a "anti Dark Dragon" weapon. That doesn't really follow and would seem to be rather low on the list of priorities for uses.

[RandA lThor]

Aren't others also being reborn, like the heralds of a new age and so on.

[Deadsy]

exactly, the heroes will be less in number when mat blows it this time, so it is a less effective weapon.

 

We have no way of knowing that. People have died since the 2nd book. Verin could be there, just to name one.

[TootThatHorn]

there is a chance that farstrider COULD be a hero too, so he could be called as well, be interesting too, give matt a chance to see him again

[FarShainMael]

RE Birgitte: ATM, she is apparently alive and in the real world. However, it's possible that she could die before Mat sounds the Horn, perhaps in the fighting in Caemlyn.

 

If she doesn't - well, as I said, she's 'apparently' alive; but she was kept alive through her bond with Elayne. Personally I think she's some kind of ghost. If so, the HoV might call her out of this in-between state of not dead, but not truly alive.

 

Then, after TG, she is spun out again in the 'normal' way, to rejoin GC, as per Min's Viewing of her future:

 

Auras danced around her and images flickered, more than Min had ever seen around anyone, thousands it seemed, cascading over one another. Those multitude of images and auras flashed by too quickly for her to make out any clearly, but she was certain they indicated more adventures than a woman could have in one lifetime. Strangely, some were connected to an ugly man who was older that she, and others to an ugly man who was much younger, yet somehow Min knew they were the same man.

[Durinax]

exactly, the heroes will be less in number when mat blows it this time, so it is a less effective weapon.

 

There is absolutely nothing to support that opinion. In addition event if Birgitte and Gaidal make two less and none of the other heroes were born already that still would only place Gaidal without a in the LB. I hardly think that makes enough of a difference to call it less effective.

 

Lastly not sure why you place the main significance of the Horn as being a "anti Dark Dragon" weapon. That doesn't really follow and would seem to be rather low on the list of priorities for uses.

I name it as a anti dark dragon weapon because a while back there was the theory that if the dragon did go to the dark side and was destroying everyone then the horn would be the most effective weapon against him. of course thats my opinion

 

as for why I said it becomes less effective a weapon based on how fewer heroes there are (if more are spun out than before) its because of simple numbers, if all heroes where in tar the horn would be 100% effective, and the fewer heroes the less effective based purely on numbers

[TristanWebb]

Unless the horn has a limited power pool it could bestow on the heroes. So one hero would get 100% of all possible Horn-power but 100 heroes would only get 1% each. We know nothing about the mechanics of the Horn, it isn't even a ter'angreal.

[Naggash]

it isn't even a ter'angreal.

It is a God'greal :D

In my opinion Birgitte won't appear unless she dies, and Noal (Jain) will come by to say hi ^^

 

Also, you can't say there will be less Heroes because Gaidal and Birgitte are alive. You don't know if other Heroes were weaved meanwhile to beggin with, and you don't know if any died. So you don't know if there will be 2 less, 8 less, 10 more or whatever.

 

So one hero would get 100% of all possible Horn-power but 100 heroes would only get 1%

I think each Hero has his special ability or "Power of the Horn", nothing more and nothing less.

[TristanWebb]

So one hero would get 100% of all possible Horn-power but 100 heroes would only get 1%

I think each Hero has his special ability or "Power of the Horn", nothing more and nothing less.

I think the Horn has enough power to do whatever it is sounded to do, but since we have no idea how it works the point is largely moot.

[RandA lThor]

We should ask brandon or maria one simple question. What is the Horn of Valere and how does it work?

[Dagon Thyne]

exactly, the heroes will be less in number when mat blows it this time, so it is a less effective weapon.

 

another way to think of the horn is a anti dark dragon weapon, if the dragon goes evil then there will be mass chaos and slaughter, in which any heroes which would have been reborn will likely be killed, returned to TAR where they can be called by the horn to save the day. So it is a method of checks and balances based on what the dragon does

 

Actually, the horn is neutral. Heros of the horn are bound to the Dragon. When they die, they return to the world of dreams. If the dragon joins the shadow, so do they when the horn is sounded. The only way to stop it is to not sound the horn at all.

[Suttree]

Actually, the horn is neutral. Heros of the horn are bound to the Dragon. When they die, they return to the world of dreams. If the dragon joins the shadow, so do they when the horn is sounded. The only way to stop it is to not sound the horn at all.

 

?

 

Robert Jordan

 

However, she is correct in that whoever sounds the Horn "controls the Heroes." [exact quote]

 

Pam Basham

 

(I started to get confused at this point. Is Moiraine right or is she wrong? What's he trying to tell me?)

Question: Then what happens if the Dragon and the banner are on opposite sides of the conflict from whoever sounds the Horn?

 

Robert Jordan

"Then we get a [rift] in the Pattern." [1]

 

 

Interview: Sep 20th, 1999

 

Brisbane Signing Report - Joel Gilmore (Paraphrased)

 

Robert Jordan

I re-asked the question about the shadow controlling one of the Horn or the banner, and he said that the Heroes would have to follow the Horn (I think. I don't have this on tape, so...But he didn't say anything about a rift, which was what I'd heard someone say he said before?)

[greensalt]

there is a chance that farstrider COULD be a hero too, so he could be called as well, be interesting too, give matt a chance to see him again

 

 

The fact that Jain Farstrider is such a likely candidate for the Horn never occured to me. I had a discussion with a friend not too long ago about whether any of the living heroes may become bound to the horn and whether Mat or Perrin would be. I think Farstrider definitely deserves to be on the short list for that honor, especially since he has such a herculean backstory.

[LoLPoR]

This is one of those RAFO moments because we won't know how the horn is going to be used until the next book but it is likely that the horns efficacy won't be effected since the heroes are dead and can't be killed so the horn shouldn't be less powerful. Really hope to see Jain again in his prime being called back by the horn tho.

[Demon_AS]

Is the Dragon one of the heroes of the Horn? I know the two are linked, but in another age, would the Dragon appear alongside Hawkwing?

[Suttree]

Is the Dragon one of the heroes of the Horn? I know the two are linked, but in another age, would the Dragon appear alongside Hawkwing?

 

Seeing as how Hawkwing recognized Rand's soul and called him by name(LTT) at Falme it would seem to be yes.

[Maleshub]

Is the Dragon one of the heroes of the Horn? I know the two are linked, but in another age, would the Dragon appear alongside Hawkwing?

 

Seeing as how Hawkwing recognized Rand's soul and called him by name(LTT) at Falme it would seem to be yes.

 

True! And there might be the possibility that the Horn's purpose is to serve the Dragon or at the time of the Dragon. Just a hunch; but if there is any evidence refuting that possibility, please refer me to it.

[FarShainMael]

Is the Dragon one of the heroes of the Horn? I know the two are linked, but in another age, would the Dragon appear alongside Hawkwing?

 

Seeing as how Hawkwing recognized Rand's soul and called him by name(LTT) at Falme it would seem to be yes.

 

True! And there might be the possibility that the Horn's purpose is to serve the Dragon or at the time of the Dragon. Just a hunch; but if there is any evidence refuting that possibility, please refer me to it.

 

Well, here's something in support of that:

 

"The Horn of Valere, made to call dead heroes back from the grave. And prophecy said it would only be found just in time for the Last Battle."

 

And the Dragon would also appear in time for the LB.

 

Later on, we have this:

 

"The Pattern weaves itself round our neck like a halter.. You {Rand} are here. The banner is here. The weave of this moment is set. We have come to the Horn but we must follow the banner. And the Dragon."

 

So it does not seem that the Horn can call the Dragon, snce he has to be in the real world at this point. However, he is strongly associated with it.

[Suttree]

Is the Dragon one of the heroes of the Horn? I know the two are linked, but in another age, would the Dragon appear alongside Hawkwing?

 

Seeing as how Hawkwing recognized Rand's soul and called him by name(LTT) at Falme it would seem to be yes.

 

True! And there might be the possibility that the Horn's purpose is to serve the Dragon or at the time of the Dragon. Just a hunch; but if there is any evidence refuting that possibility, please refer me to it.

 

Well, here's something in support of that:

 

"The Horn of Valere, made to call dead heroes back from the grave. And prophecy said it would only be found just in time for the Last Battle."

 

And the Dragon would also appear in time for the LB.

 

Later on, we have this:

 

"The Pattern weaves itself round our neck like a halter.. You {Rand} are here. The banner is here. The weave of this moment is set. We have come to the Horn but we must follow the banner. And the Dragon."

 

So it does not seem that the Horn can call the Dragon, snce he has to be in the real world at this point. However, he is strongly associated with it.

 

Wait how is Rand being a Hero even open for debate? RJ said it flat out...

 

Interview: Oct 22nd, 1998

TPOD Signing Report - Pam Basham (Paraphrased)

 

Pam Basham

 

Regarding the Dragon and the Dragon Reborn (and Graendal's thoughts about Ishamael's musings):

"Is this soul born in any other Age, or only at the advent and (theoretically, of course) the closing of the Third Age, as the Dragon/the Dragon Reborn?"

 

Robert Jordan

 

This soul is one of the Heroes, and bound to the Wheel, spun out as the Pattern wills. "It" is born in other Ages, but in a non-Dragon incarnation, to suit the pattern of that Age.

 

Pam Basham

In the course of this answer, he related this to why Hawkwing calls Rand "Lews Therin" at Falme—because Hawkwing recognizes this soul. This didn't really tell me why he specifically calls him "Lews Therin", but apparently they've been hangin' together in Tel'aran'rhiod and the etiquette there is to call each other by the name of your last incarnation. (My interpretation.)

 

Yes in another age when that soul is in a "non dragon" incarnation he would be called.