Gholam

[Hotncold]

Umm, everyone here knows that Mat all ready killed the gholam right? Well at least close enough to collect on a crown contract anyways. Funny how there can be three pages of discussion of how to kill something that's all ready been killed. Yea, I know, pushing the gholam off the skimmer did not actually kill the gholam, but jeez, bottom line is the gholam is not coming back.

[yoniy0]

1. Trapping it in free fall in that blackness did in fact kill it. Brandon said it would not survive there for long (there are limits to its ability to Travel, it would seem).

2. Even so, the premise of this thread was that its demise was needlessly convoluted. I don't necessarily buy into that, but that's a far cry from forbidding discussion.

3. There are still five gholam unaccounted for.

[Durinax]

3. There are still five gholam unaccounted for.

it would be kind of strange to use only one gholam for the book series and then suddenly introduce 5 more (on a personally level, not a mentioned level)

 

so I highly doubt there are 5 gholam alive (they most likely died of old age or some such)

[Naggash]

3. There are still five gholam unaccounted for.

it would be kind of strange to use only one gholam for the book series and then suddenly introduce 5 more (on a personally level, not a mentioned level)

 

so I highly doubt there are 5 gholam alive (they most likely died of old age or some such)

Some probably died during the Breaking. But there could be more in Static Rooms. No one sais 5 Gholam will pop up in aMoL but I think probable that at least another one survived. One or two more would be nice and bring some interesting plotline/fights.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Who is to say that the Gholam that killed Fel is the same Gholam that Mat killed?

 

Also, I don't think it implausible that one of the Chosen find another stasis box with a Gholam in it, or Moridin has a Gholam there for backup at Shayol Ghul.

 

I don't expect it to happen, but I wouldn't say it was that implausible.

[Sharaman]

I'm puzzled.. why bother to make gholams of both sexes?

Easier for them to infiltrate different places - a female gholam could walks into a women's "necessary" etc., without resounding yells of "pervert".

[RandA lThor]

I wonder if gholam can mate?

[Orderofolde]

Forsaken have their own forces of trollocs, and it seems like they could be sent to attack other forsaken. The same seems to be true of gholam. Maybe I'm just pulling at straws. Does anyone know of an instance where a Forsaken was in danger by another's shadowspawn? Grey men, Dragkhar, or trollocs?

You may have a point there. I suspected for a time that the Forsaken founding the Gholam could send it against another Forsaken. But then I changed my mind; I don't think Shadowspawns can be used by the Chosen to fight among themselves. I think it must be forbiden by the DO to waste troops like that. Also, through the books they fight in a more subtle manner. Alliances and treason.

I seem to remember Lanfear sending fades and trollocs against others in an attack to aid Rand...

[RandA lThor]

I don't think that was Lanfear, I think it was Semirhage's or someone else's, Lanfear said it wasn't hers.

[Orderofolde]

Of course he's that. What other reason would there be to send one after Mat while at the same time sending Ashaman and trollocs after Rand?

I just can't shake the feeling that BS will pull a Graendal where we think the thing's dead and delt with and have the Gholam's master make a platform under it to catch him and we'll see him appear again wanting some revenge on Mat. Or the thing's mate comes looking for some payback.

[Orderofolde]

I'm puzzled.. why bother to make gholams of both sexes?

Easier for them to infiltrate different places - a female gholam could walks into a women's "necessary" etc., without resounding yells of "pervert".

Or into a place filled with women where men walk softly and as servants they don't have a lot of access to all areas like the White Tower.

[RandA lThor]

Or in Shienar, the women's rooms are very limited to men

[Sharaman]

They were made in the AOL so it's unlikely they were catering for the customs of post-breaking Shienar and the WT. But yes, stuff like that. Conversely there are very male oriented setups where a women walking in would cause a riot. Hence useful to have creatures that appear to be of both sexes.

[FarShainMael]

All very true. But another thought has just occurred to me: the gholam's substance seems to be so plastic that they could take on male or female form as required. Or maybe they aren't quite that flexible!

[Naggash]

All very true. But another thought has just occurred to me: the gholam's substance seems to be so plastic that they could take on male or female form as required. Or maybe they aren't quite that flexible!

That would be funny, but it's said that 3 and 3 were created, so yeah, they can't switch sex xDDDD

[yoniy0]

I wonder if gholam can mate?

It seems decidedly unlikely that we wouldn't have learned of if they could, around the time we learned that only 6 were made.

 

I seem to remember Lanfear sending fades and trollocs against others in an attack to aid Rand...

Lanfear said 'no' and implied 'yes', but you're right. Semirhage's later taken responsibility.

[FarShainMael]

All very true. But another thought has just occurred to me: the gholam's substance seems to be so plastic that they could take on male or female form as required. Or maybe they aren't quite that flexible!

That would be funny, but it's said that 3 and 3 were created, so yeah, they can't switch sex xDDDD

 

Yep, Aginor missed a bet there..

[RandA lThor]

They may not be able to switch sex, but they may be able to appear like they have.

[yoniy0]

I doubt it, for the sole reason that it seems unlikely that they can reproduce. In which case, the very partition to genders has to be appearance-oriented, really. And again, they were very clearly said to be either one or the other.

[Naggash]

They may not be able to switch sex, but they may be able to appear like they have.

I think you take too far the 'amoeba' thing. I don't think they can adopt appereance variations; in fact I don't think they can modify themselves more than a few seconds.

[Vardar]

I actually wondered why they just didn't encase him in a solid block or circle of ice. He needs a crack to escape thru right? Make a block of water around him, BAM Freeze it. Instnat Statis pod until you figure out what to do with him. That was my first thought when I read what he could do.

 

But outside looking in things look different. We can come up with so many more solutions. Also, constructs can't travel thru gateways. He's a construct. How the hell did he fall thru the gateway anyway. Wouldn't it have killed him? (Forgive me if this has been said)

[yoniy0]

Yes, actually, it's been addressed. He's a more sophisticated construct, and can actually Travel. Just not for very long (that is, Skimming is a problem, if it doesn't get out soon enough).

[Vardar]

Yes, actually, it's been addressed. He's a more sophisticated construct, and can actually Travel. Just not for very long (that is, Skimming is a problem, if it doesn't get out soon enough).

 

Where was this discussed? I thought no contructs of the one power could travel. When did the but come into being?

[yoniy0]

Where was this discussed? I thought no contructs of the one power could travel. When did the but come into being?

Well the main place to find these things is probably Theoryland's Interview Database, but here you go:

Interview: Nov 16th, 2010

Paris Signing Report - Jonathan B (Paraphrased)

Jonathan B

We discussed the gholam; if someone had pushed it through a gateway, would it have just died?

Brandon Sanderson

Brandon said that gholam CAN go THROUGH gateways (from one place to another). Gholam are Shadowspawn of a more perfected kind. It would have been way too easy to kill if you just needed to shove it through a gateway (to another place). However, falling through the skimming gateway for a few minutes did kill the gholam and it is really dead and it's not going to show up again. This makes me wonder now if one of Rand/Logain's Deathgates would have killed it but I didn't think to ask at the time.

 

Interview: Apr 21st, 2012

Kaffeeklatsch with Team Jordan - Ishara (Paraphrased)

Ishara

We know that Shadowspawn cannot survive going through a gateway. Would the gholam have died just by going though the gateway in Towers of Midnight, or was it necessary for Mat to have kicked him off into the abyss?

Maria Simons

No, he wouldn't have died just by going through the gateway, but he's unique.