Character's being exactly what they say they aren't.

[Clouded]

I have been rereading and listening to some of my favorite parts this series for a while now. One thing that I've noticed is that RJ likes to have the characters deny what they are, both as a form of emotional denial, and a little bit as an inside joke. I love these little inside jokes, as it pays off to go back and reread and laugh at a characters ironic future.

 

My favorite example that I've found so far was in the Great Hunt. Young Rand is on his mission to rescue the dagger for mat, and hopes simply to go his own way afterwards. He does not know what the future has in store for him. Even more importantly, he does not know his lineage, though he does have his doubts. He is talking to Lord Barthanes, after tracking the dagger there.

 

"Those eyes. That hair. I have heard the Andoran royal line has almost Aiel coloring in their hair and eye."

Rand stumbled, though the floor was smooth marble. "I'm not Aiel, Lord Barthanes, and I'm not of the royal line, either."

 

Anyone else see some good example of characters eventually being or becoming exactly what they think they aren't?

[yoniy0]

I think Mat is a prime example; he really isn't aware at all of what he's like. For your purpose, however, the part about despising nobility probably fits best. Then there's Nynaeve, as an obvious example (though she got over not wanting to be AS fairly quickly).

[Kamin_Majere]

I think just about everyone in the story has done that.

 

Rand becoming the Dragon and having the world rest on him

Mat becoming a great general and finally a noble

Perrin becoming a wolf brother and finally a leader of men

Nynaeve becoming someone not a two rivers wisdom and finally an Aes Sedai

Lan finally raising the Golden Crane and taking the mantle of Malkeri King

 

About the only ones present during the fleeing of the two rivers to not drastically do something they thought contrary were Thom (as he's always thought alot of himself and indeed is more than he appears to begin with) Morine who "kinda died" so didnt have any growth for many books, and Egwene who just ... well appears to do everything better than everyone else anyway so never had much thought beyond that

[Niel an' Tyomn]

Yup and Tuon (My bad Fortuona) disliking Mat and kind of "Toy"ing with him when they are together.

[yoniy0]

Tuon actually suspected who Mat was from the very first time she saw him.

[Aulduron]

All 3 boys kept denying they were nobles. All 3 are now royalty. Matt does this the most with being a hero (Loial too). Tuon denies being Marath Damane, but I bet she starts channelling soon. Elayne keeps denying she's a hairbrained chit, but she clearly is. With Nyneave, it's being arrogant. For Siuan, it was being in love.

 

I liked the way the boys kept wishing they had the others way with women.

[DaoineSidhe]

My favorite example of this by far is Matt always getting mad at how Olver behaves towards women. He's always saying he's going to have a talk to his "uncles" not to teach him bad habits, from drinking to womanizing, and he's always the worst culprit.

 

Some others (mostly Matt because I think his denials have the most humor)

-Matt not wanting to settle down and become responsible, but he's the first character of the three to be a Dad (not really, but basically with Olver)

-Elayne's denial of lifting her chin, or flashing a smile to try and get her way

-Matt's denial of being royalty in his conversation with Talmanes and Thom (actually laughed for a few minutes in that one)

-Rand having conversations with himself about how he's not crazy (little dark, but still a good denial that occasionally brought a laugh)

-All the women character's denial that they become witless ninnies around the men they love (well, admittedly, I sometimes find this funny, and other times really really really annoying. Due to overuse with almost every female character, now leans towards annoying though I suppose)

-Thom's always describes himself as being a "simple gleeman". All I can say to that is this: if Thom really is a simple gleeman and no more, there should have been more gleemen in this story, because a group of Thoms would be unstoppable

-Aes Sedai denial of the existence of a Black Ajah.

-Matt's denial to pretty much anyone who will listen that he knows the Old Tongue

-Matt denying that he will go "save the women" pretty much all the time, and yet he rescues women out of tight spots the most of the three characters

[Barid Bel Medar]

I am fond of Rand not knowing he is mad in LoC, while describing the exact "symptoms" he displays. He does say that it is possible he wouldn't even know if he was mad, but I found it amusing.

 

 

He worried over going mad - not just the fact of it, though that was bad enough; if he went insane, how could he do what he had to do? - but he had seen no sign of it. But then, if his mind did crack, would he know it? He had never seen a madman. All he had to go by was Lews Therin maundering in his head. Did all men go mad alike? Would he end like that, laughing and weeping over things no one else saw or knew?

 

[DaoineSidhe]

Pro-tip for Rand in LoC on how to tell if you are crazy:

-Tell someone your symptoms. If their reaction is "that's crazy!", then you probably are.

 

Example:

-Rand to anyone else: "I hear a dead madman in my head who occasionally tries to seize the One Power from my control."

-Normal response: "That's crazy!"

 

edit:

On a side note Barid Bel, I think I may have found a new quote for my signature...

[1Brotherbill]

The Aiel not wanting to be like the Tinkers and finding out that they started that club years ago.

[Clouded]

I do love that Rand doesn't want to go crazy

I am fond of Rand not knowing he is mad in LoC, while describing the exact "symptoms" he displays. He does say that it is possible he wouldn't even know if he was mad, but I found it amusing.

 

 

He worried over going mad - not just the fact of it, though that was bad enough; if he went insane, how could he do what he had to do? - but he had seen no sign of it. But then, if his mind did crack, would he know it? He had never seen a madman. All he had to go by was Lews Therin maundering in his head. Did all men go mad alike? Would he end like that, laughing and weeping over things no one else saw or knew?

 

 

Rand being crazy is up there on my list of funny denials. He constantly is laughing a little jokes and ironic twists. Like when he goes to Rhuidean and brings water to the fountain. He laughs because the Wise Ones said not to bring water, but they never said anything about pulling it from the ground. And here he was in the Waste, dying of thirst for no reason. He sees the joke, and laughs about it, but to Mat he just looks insane.

[Siswai_Dar]

I don't know about you but for me all this parts where Rand is worried about going mad (i don't think he denies it, he's just really scared- until he becomes dark rand and doesn't give a s**t anymore) makes me really sad. I don't find it funny at all.

 

another example I remember very well is how Mat kept denying him being ta'veren (especially in TDR after he is healed)

and Aviendha insisting she is a maiden and refusing to become a wise one

[master]

I'd guess tuon/fortuona thinking her relationship with mat is only political would count. I don't think the patterns ever arranged a marriage before without love. I don't see how this is any different.

[jwood01]

Seems to me that this is how a lot of humans think. We often hold an ideal of ourselves in our head, but our actions are often contrary to our self-ideal. For example, lots of us like to think of ourselves as environmentally minded individuals, but when push comes to shove we end up with a house in the suburbs and a minivan.