What characters does Brandon Sanderson write the best?

[Maleshub]

Let us remember that while we here all love RJ it is difficult to do a websearch on WoT and not find people basically saying RJ was self-indulgent and long winded. I have looked up quite a few "Greatest fantasy series" lists searching for something new to read and WoT is pretty much always on the list. But more times than not the person writing the list didnt care for the series, couldnt get past the first 3 or 4 books, but adds it due to its popularity.

 

That's the whole point of this discussion. If people can, and should if they so wish, criticize RJ, why not Brandon? It isn't as if literary critics, let alone fans and "Aiel" readers, usually agree on any piece of literature. It is a healthy discussion. What is unhealthy about some of these discussions is portraying Brandon critics as ungrateful, disrespectful people. Criticism does not detract or reduce gratitude or respect.

[yoniy0]

Actually, the point was to discuss those character that Brandon did justice to. Which reminds me, however it was who said Lan seemed off, would you please explain why? Nothing registered with me that I can think of.

[DaoineSidhe]

Another character I think Brandon did a good job portraying was Nynaeve. Nynaeve has been steadily growing and changing as a character since aCoS. I didn't really notice a huge difference in her development or behavior when Brandon took over her. She continued to grow in certain areas that she needed to, and for all that she has chosen the Yellow Ajah, is primed to be the next "Cadsuane" or "Morainne" (ie legendary Aes Sedai that spends all her time out in the world adventuring, and very little in the Tower.). She is probably my favorite female character in WoT, and Brandon's writing has stayed true to her "Voice", IMO.

[yoniy0]

Yes, I do too. Which is funny, because Nynaeve was always funny for much the same reason Mat was.

[safwd]

Let us remember that while we here all love RJ it is difficult to do a websearch on WoT and not find people basically saying RJ was self-indulgent and long winded. I have looked up quite a few "Greatest fantasy series" lists searching for something new to read and WoT is pretty much always on the list. But more times than not the person writing the list didnt care for the series, couldnt get past the first 3 or 4 books, but adds it due to its popularity.

 

That's the whole point of this discussion. If people can, and should if they so wish, criticize RJ, why not Brandon? It isn't as if literary critics, let alone fans and "Aiel" readers, usually agree on any piece of literature. It is a healthy discussion. What is unhealthy about some of these discussions is portraying Brandon critics as ungrateful, disrespectful people. Criticism does not detract or reduce gratitude or respect.

 

I agree with you on this. By all means people should criticize Brandon's work along with every other author they have issues with.

What i dont get is that it seems that people expected, or at least wanted, a seamless transition from a guy who is a pretty young and raw writer.

Wasnt going to happen.

I dont know if the job was offered to more seasoned veterans or not, i imagine many would not want to do it for the very reason we are talking about Brandon's work. I believe it would be impossible to do it and not put at least some of your own feel to it and bigtime fans arent going to like that.

 

I do think Lan was written fine but i also dont think Lan is that difficult to write. He is a "Stand there and look impossing" guy. He is a man of few words.

[Maleshub]

Let us remember that while we here all love RJ it is difficult to do a websearch on WoT and not find people basically saying RJ was self-indulgent and long winded. I have looked up quite a few "Greatest fantasy series" lists searching for something new to read and WoT is pretty much always on the list. But more times than not the person writing the list didnt care for the series, couldnt get past the first 3 or 4 books, but adds it due to its popularity.

 

That's the whole point of this discussion. If people can, and should if they so wish, criticize RJ, why not Brandon? It isn't as if literary critics, let alone fans and "Aiel" readers, usually agree on any piece of literature. It is a healthy discussion. What is unhealthy about some of these discussions is portraying Brandon critics as ungrateful, disrespectful people. Criticism does not detract or reduce gratitude or respect.

 

I agree with you on this. By all means people should criticize Brandon's work along with every other author they have issues with.

What i dont get is that it seems that people expected, or at least wanted, a seamless transition from a guy who is a pretty young and raw writer.

Wasnt going to happen.

I dont know if the job was offered to more seasoned veterans or not, i imagine many would not want to do it for the very reason we are talking about Brandon's work. I believe it would be impossible to do it and not put at least some of your own feel to it and bigtime fans arent going to like that.

 

I do think Lan was written fine but i also dont think Lan is that difficult to write. He is a "Stand there and look impossing" guy. He is a man of few words.

 

I agree that a transition from the late RJ to Sanderson was bound to have its drawbacks and hiccups. And since WoT is such a huge project, it has its unique work methodology or routine, making it a more difficult job for Sanderson to do. Were there areas and characters that he could have done better? Was it within his realm of reasonable time and effort to get a better grasp of the main characters and polish them off better? Were Brandon and Team Jordan rushing through the process at the expense of quality?

 

One could view the last two books as a shining white sheet of cloth. A few black spots stand out. That doesn't detract from the whiteness of the rest of the cloth. But those few black spots have a way of standing out. They usually do!

[Suttree]

I agree that a transition from the late RJ to Sanderson was bound to have its drawbacks and hiccups. And since WoT is such a huge project, it has its unique work methodology or routine, making it a more difficult job for Sanderson to do. Were there areas and characters that he could have done better? Was it within his realm of reasonable time and effort to get a better grasp of the main characters and polish them off better? Were Brandon and Team Jordan rushing through the process at the expense of quality?

 

Great points that haven't really been brought up in this thread Theodril. TGS and ToM were unarguably rushed through the writing and production process and both works were very unpolished/suffered in quality as a result(Team Jordan has admitted this). Yet another reason why neither can be considered "near the top". I do commend them for taking the proper time with AMoL and as a result think it will be the best of the three by a wide margin.

[safwd]

I agree that a transition from the late RJ to Sanderson was bound to have its drawbacks and hiccups. And since WoT is such a huge project, it has its unique work methodology or routine, making it a more difficult job for Sanderson to do. Were there areas and characters that he could have done better? Was it within his realm of reasonable time and effort to get a better grasp of the main characters and polish them off better? Were Brandon and Team Jordan rushing through the process at the expense of quality?

 

Great points that haven't really been brought up in this thread Theodril. TGS and ToM were unarguably rushed through the writing and production process and both works were very unpolished/suffered in quality as a result(Team Jordan has admitted this). Yet another reason why neither can be considered "near the top". I do commend them for taking the proper time with AMoL and as a result think it will be the best of the three by a wide margin.

 

Yet another reason why I do not feel either can be considered "near the top".

 

I fixed that sentance for you. The first time you wrote it it appeared a little presumptuous.

 

The books being rushed did affect their quality, everyone in the process has admitted that.

Makes you wonder what the key to a polished novel is, the writer or the editor.

 

This series really got away from RJ. It was supposed to be a Trilogy. Then 6 books.

I remember his quote that he would finish AMoL in one book if it had to be carried in a wheel barrow. That was obviously not going to happen even if he did get to finish it.

I doubt Brandon had a ton of time to work on it before they wanted a draft.

Hopefully the final book will be given all the time it needs. I dont want it to be pushed again but if that is what it takes to give this story the ending it desereves i can wait.

[Suttree]

I agree that a transition from the late RJ to Sanderson was bound to have its drawbacks and hiccups. And since WoT is such a huge project, it has its unique work methodology or routine, making it a more difficult job for Sanderson to do. Were there areas and characters that he could have done better? Was it within his realm of reasonable time and effort to get a better grasp of the main characters and polish them off better? Were Brandon and Team Jordan rushing through the process at the expense of quality?

 

Great points that haven't really been brought up in this thread Theodril. TGS and ToM were unarguably rushed through the writing and production process and both works were very unpolished/suffered in quality as a result(Team Jordan has admitted this). Yet another reason why neither can be considered "near the top". I do commend them for taking the proper time with AMoL and as a result think it will be the best of the three by a wide margin.

 

Yet another reason why I do not feel either can be considered "near the top".

 

I fixed that sentance for you. The first time you wrote it it appeared a little presumptuous.

 

The books being rushed did affect their quality, everyone in the process has admitted that.

Makes you wonder what the key to a polished novel is, the writer or the editor.

 

Shrug. Call it presumptuous if you want but when an author and the Team admit faults and change their process to fix them not sure how the books that caused that change could be considered some of the best in the series? They went so far to say they needed to make sure they get AMoL "right". Which very much to me implies they did not do so in the preceding books. In addition people are arguing that there is nothing wrong with either Mat or TGS and ToM. That just doesn't make any sense when Team Jordan have flat out admitted the issues with both.

 

I understand that you enjoyed the story and have admitted that the first time through there was fan gratification. The problem is it's like cotton candy or some such. Tastes good immediately but quickly turns sickly sweet. TGS and ToM quite simply do not hold up under rereads. They are are unpolished and uneven, the characterization is poor at times, and lowest common denominator plotwork is all too frequent. These issues have been well documented in other threads.

 

As for the author/editor question the answer to that is quite clearly both. Brandon's method is to slap words down to a page racing through his drafts(a big part of the reason he has changed his process) resulting in "first drafts" that are far more rough than the average author. To exasperate this the revision/editing process was cut far too short as well. This would be enough of a mess but as Luckers has indicated at times it seems like Brandon doesn't seem to try and fix the things he struggles with, he just barges on to the next piece he enjoys. To me the fault is shared on both sides and the care taken with AMoL is why I have hope for it to be their best work. The problem to me is at this point we have two books that have close to zero re-readability. The bar has been seriously raised the last few years in fantasy with authors such as Bakker and Rothfus. These last couple WoT books are a far way behind other works in terms of writing quality and polish which is a bummer. I truly hope Brandon can take that next step and fulfill the promise he showed with that first Mistborn book.

[David Selig]

Oh, come on. Please stop insisting your opinion is the only one valid. I've reread TGS and consider it one of the best WoT books. And it wasn't because of "plot gratification", because I care very little about this. Does it have its fair share of problems? Sure. But then the same can be said for all WoT books, even TSR. Jordan was far from perfect.

[Suttree]

Oh, come on. Please stop insisting your opinion is the only one valid. I've reread TGS and consider it one of the best WoT books. And it wasn't because of "plot gratification", because I care very little about this. Does it have its fair share of problems? Sure. But then the same can be said for all WoT books, even TSR. Jordan was far from perfect.

 

There is no correct opinion and mine certainly isn't the only valid one. The fact that Team Jordan has admitted the issues are very real lends weight to people's critique however. That can not be disputed. I've come to value your takes on these boards. Wondering what about TGS from a writing perspective makes it one of the best for you?

 

Edit: As for Jordan being far from perfect I agree and have said as much many times here. I have seen you yourself admit to the drop off in quality however. That is why I asked the question above.

[jwood01]

Just a thought out of left field...

It would be utterly fascinating to see the end product from a half-dozen other possible candidates (Williams, Erickon, etc) if they'd taken up this challenge, and compare them to Brandon's work and each other's. God, I could spend months (or years) doing that.

 

If Erikson finished the WoT we would be left with a million loose ends ;)

 

With BS at least we are guaranteed a full conclusion, even if the DO is revealed as a sherpa from a past age.

[yoniy0]

Just two points. First, safwd, RJ's insistence that he'd finish the series with AMoL should be viewed in the context of the time in which he made it. It's my belief that he simply wasn't ready to face the prospect of not completing the series, and one book takes less time to create than three, even by the same word-count.

 

Second, Suttree, this is a work of art, and we're not sitting in some university's lit dept. There are no right answers, and even if Brandon has issues with the quality of his work thus far, that needn't say everyone else should, also. And then there's the very real possibility that what you've heard from Team Jordan is a product of the very criticism you make, that it's meant to 'placate the masses', and not something they'd have noted on their own. To the point, you know that I much agree with your position, but try not to belittle others', won't you?

[Xeratul]

Suttree and Theodril have basically said it, A. Pseudonym. You can critique a work without disrespecting the creator. Indeed, the act of criticism itself is, in some ways, an act of respect.

 

If it is constructive.

If you just say "This is garbage" or "This Sucks" or "He destroyed every character" then it is not the criticism you are speaking of. And there is a bit of that here as well.

But a lot of that is because the people have already done the critiquing years ago. You cannot expect people to continually provide constructive feedback every time someone comes around here bringing up a topic that has been beaten to death by them. The topic is 'what characters does Brandon Sanderson write the best', not 'hi, my name is Brandon Sanderson and I would like some feedback on how I could improve my understanding of certain characters'.

 

There is no real need for people to provide constructive criticism here, BS tends to avoid the fan sites I have heard, which is probably good for his sanity. He has finished his first draft, massive rewrites based on this are unlikely. No one here is saying he needs to be shot for butchering the series, just that their interpretation of characters wasn't in line with what a new author's was and that they feel his prose does not quite measure up to one of the gods of fantasy writing.

 

But let us not forget that one of the gods of fantasy writing made Perrin dang near unreadable. Introduced the character Faile so most readers would have a character they all hated equally and made nearly every woman a know it all B****.

I love the guy and his writing but it isnt like his characters were all golden, i freaking hated Elayne from day one.

 

This just reminds me of an literary article I read about One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest entitled "Bitches and Twitches." It was about how every woman in that novel was either an emasculating ball buster or a self esteem bolstering prostitute.

 

One thing WoT makes me think about is how much the women in Robert Jordan's life must have messed him up...

[Suttree]

Second, Suttree, this is a work of art, and we're not sitting in some university's lit dept. There are no right answers, and even if Brandon has issues with the quality of his work thus far, that needn't say everyone else should, also. And then there's the very real possibility that what you've heard from Team Jordan is a product of the very criticism you make, that it's meant to 'placate the masses', and not something they'd have noted on their own.

 

Fair points, it's just my background from college(lit degree) so I have a hard time viewing it any other way. As I said before there is no correct opinion. I truly am interested to see what about the writing makes David think TGS is one of the best.

 

Edit: As an aside it certainly wasn't my intention to belittle anyone. Apologies if anything came across that way.

[condonmc]

 

 

Second, Suttree, this is a work of art, and we're not sitting in some university's lit dept. There are no right answers, and even if Brandon has issues with the quality of his work thus far, that needn't say everyone else should, also. And then there's the very real possibility that what you've heard from Team Jordan is a product of the very criticism you make, that it's meant to 'placate the masses', and not something they'd have noted on their own. To the point, you know that I much agree with your position, but try not to belittle others', won't you?

+ 1

[yoniy0]

I truly am interested to see what about the writing makes David think TGS is one of the best.

Well, it has some strong thematic elements, and a good structure, I think (minus Mat's story, that really didn't go anywhere but instead seemed to have been added to avoid similar complaints as those made after TPoD). The tone of the book is good. Egwene's arc is, for the most part, nothing short of phenomenal, if a little heavy-handed at times (a good follow-up overall on KoD's Honey in the Tea). There's actually not much going on there beyond character development, excepting the Tower arc (which I say as a positive). It mainly suffers in the execution of some of the characters, and perhaps the action is a bit over the top and melodramatic. I did personally find VoG badly performed (and even conceived), but that's just my taste, which I know many do not share.

[Mats Spare Hat]

...Just passed by the facial twitch inducing Gawyn spars with deu- er...Sleete, and the other random never before seen warder, we'll call him Jay. He duels Jay and Silen- er...Sleete, who after having their own backgrounds zapped into being declare vah vah vah zoom, yer gud at swords 'n stuff.

 

Anyway, on the comment of over the top action & mellowdrama, revisit that part, and wince along with me at the amount of times, during the action, the phrases " so and so moved into.." and "so and so tried..."

 

It's like reading a freaking gamecenter feed of a sports game on yahoo...Maybe sanderson needs more capcaisin in his diet *shrug

[yoniy0]

Mellowdrama

Love it!

[Luckers]

...Just passed by the facial twitch inducing Gawyn spars with deu- er...Sleete, and the other random never before seen warder, we'll call him Jay. He duels Jay and Silen- er...Sleete, who after having their own backgrounds zapped into being declare vah vah vah zoom, yer gud at swords 'n stuff.

 

Anyway, on the comment of over the top action & mellowdrama, revisit that part, and wince along with me at the amount of times, during the action, the phrases " so and so moved into.." and "so and so tried..."

 

It's like reading a freaking gamecenter feed of a sports game on yahoo...Maybe sanderson needs more capcaisin in his diet *shrug

 

Mmm, the first of the gratuitously adolescent Gawyn-sword scenes in tGS, the other two being when he enters the rebel camp and Douchebag-Sergeant is a douchebag allowing Gawyn to put him in his place, and where Bryne waxes lyrical about Gawyn's skill during their fight with the Seanchan.