The League of Shadows

[Machin Shin]

The Forsaken are a quarrelsome bunch; always scheming and competing for the title of Nae'blis. We know the Dark Lord is a busy being. The destruction of the Wheel and the unravelling of the very fabric of reality, afterall, is no one man job. Therefore I have decided to help the big guy carry the burden.

 

If the Forsaken were placed in a league, who and based on what attributes and achievements, would be the frontrunners for the top spot and who would languish at the bottom of the heap wallowing in their own self-loathing?

 

Obviously some of the contenders have been balefired out of existence. So for the purposes of this question we must assume that they are all alive and well.

 

Mine in order are:

 

1. Ishamael (Moridin) - Highlights of a long and illustrious career include the founding of the Black Ajah, starting The Trolloc Wars and the War of the Hundred years to name but a few. Left a serious impression on Rand at Falme. He was, however, defeated by Rand with Callandor. I cant see any of them surviving that, thus it does not have a detrimental effect on his ranking. A record of achievement that speaks for itself, and in my opinion makes him the Numero Uno of the Forsaken.

 

2. Semirhage - Now everyone loves a sadistic maniac who tortures people to death for fun. For me, she is the only character who radiates pure fear and would be top, but for the high work rate of Ishamael. Burning off Rand's hand and slaughtering the majority of the Seanchan Blood are weighty accomplishments by anyone's standards. Being captured, however, is a big no-no. That little mishap aside, the Lady of Pain has performed exceptionally. And i cant see her remaining a prisoner for long.

 

3. Demandred - Great general. Very strong in the Power. Second only to LT. He has made little direct progress. Which may be a good move, considering the aforementioned point. He does have potential, and i can see big things for him in aMoL. Particularly the fact that he must be masquerading as Taim. Therefore the forecast for his future is bright.

 

4. Rahvin - Nice moves. The ability to enslave entire nations through Compulsion and manipulation can only be a good thing. Managed to kill Mat Aviendha and Asmodean. Again, top marks. Being balefired, and all evidence of your work and general existence being erased, does surprisingly have a negative impact on his final ranking.

 

5. Be'lal - Kicking Rand's a$$ in a swordfight=good. Being balefired out of the pattern=bad.

 

6. Lanfear (Cyndane) - Saved by the fact that she is the strongest female. She has never utilized any of the numerous oportunities she has had to kill Rand. Pretty inneffectual due to her obsession with LT.

 

7. Sammael - Although he is strong. I cant see that hes accomplished all that much. Scattering the Shaido in order to damage Rand's reputation is hardly an epic achievement. Then getting balefired whilst being eaten by Mashadar is poor by anyones standards.

 

8. Balthamel (Aran'gar) - The only transexual of the group. Which is always a plus. He/she has comeback from an appalling start in tEotW to successfully infiltrate Egwene's camp. Job well done.

 

9. Aginor (Osan'gar) - Litterally burned himself to ash in tEotW (not clever) only to return and get killed by a darkfriend Aes Sedai (the word moron springs to mind) Pathetic as he is in combat, he does actually make up for these inadequesies with his work in the creation of Shadowspawn, a huge contribution to the DL's cause.

 

10. Moghedien - Numerous schemes have come to nothing. Points for effort though.

 

11. Graendal - Strength in Compulsion we like, doing absolutely nothing, we no like. So much potential, so little action.

 

12. Mesaana - Has kept a pretty low profile throughout the series. Which also translates to: is a complete waste of space and has achieved less than nothing.

 

13. Asmodean - Utterly worthless as far as being one of the 'Chosen' is concerned. Achieved nothing, was a coward while achieving nothing.

[caraieil]

Asmodean is the weirdest forsaken and I've never quite worked out how he became one of the most trusted and highly ranked in the AoL, he must be strong in the power i guess.

Demandred is NOT TAIM according to Robert Jordan, and i can't see that Be'lal did anything useful at all. Otherwise a good list, i think aginor deserves more credt as he mafe gholam (least destroyable dark creature) and withought trollocs etc, there would be no trolloc wars.

Moghedien gave the Light an advantage when she is captured and teaches Elayne/Egwene many usefull OP tricks.

[DemandredFO]

Asmodean did teach rand though and didn't he give coulidin the other dragon, I forget. Did Sammael get balefired or was he just eaten by Mashadar, when I read it it didn't seem clear.

[Aemon raHal]

Wasn't Mesaana central in splitting the Tower and causing all the paranoia between the Ajahs?

 

That's damn good work!

 

 

And yeah, Asmodean gave Couladin the Dragons!

Look at what that did.

It sent the Shaido off across the Dragonwall to rape and pillage everywhere between there and Caihrien.

 

Not bad.

 

Asmodean had himself in a pretty good position. He almost got his hands on the Keodan Chal (sorry bout spelling)!!!

Who could have gotten in his way then?

 

Problem was he got too close to Rand, too close to the action, and he got involved with Lanfear who was more loyal to LTT than to the Shadow - not a good idea.

[Machin Shin]

Point one: The purpose of the thread was to see how other people rated the forsaken, not to have my opinion criticised. Like I said, it is my opinion. I didn’t say it was right, it’s just the way I see it. If you haven’t got the imagination to do anything other than to find fault with other peoples points of view, then don’t bother posting a reply.

 

Point two: If you are going to belittle my opinion, at least have the common sense to make sure your point is valid.

 

1st example:

 

Wasn't Mesaana central in splitting the Tower

 

Hmm that’s interesting, isn’t that statement completely wrong, why yes, I believe it is. What the hell are you talking about!? Read that statement again, and again, now again and keep reading it until it sinks in to your thick head that Mesaana hadn’t even been introduced to the story at that point. Elaida was the central figure in the splitting of the Tower.

 

2nd example:

 

And yeah, Asmodean gave Couladin the Dragons!

Look at what that did.

It sent the Shaido off across the Dragonwall to rape and pillage everywhere between there and Caihrien.

 

Not bad.

 

Well yes, maybe we should make him Nae'blis based on that fact alone. Or hang on a minute, maybe not. Considering he has absolutely no loyalty to the Dark One and changes sides as soon as he sees he has lost. Also teaching Rand i.e. the enemy, everything he knows hardly the most admirable contribution when considering his achievements as one of the Forsaken.

 

3rd example:

 

I think aginor deserves more credit as he made gholam (least destroyable dark creature) and trollocs etc

 

Aginor has been killed twice in the series, once by himself and once by someone on his own side. Now to save u reading the whole thread, which u clearly haven’t done. I said:

 

Pathetic as he is in combat, he does actually make up for these inadequacies with his work in the creation of Shadowspawn, a huge contribution to the DL's cause.

 

Now I don’t know about anyone else, but to me that pretty clearly states that I am giving him credit based on the things that you have mentioned. Well done.

 

4th example:

 

Moghedien gave the Light an advantage when she is captured and teaches Elayne/Egwene many useful OP tricks.

 

This comment has no relevance to the aim of this thread whatsoever. I am trying to ascertain who has made the most valuable contributions to the Dark One's cause and therefore their eligibility for the title of Nae'blis. Giving information to the enemy because you have been captured surprisingly is not considered a valuable contribution. Like I said reading the question does help.

[racha_giurgiu]

Apparently Machin, you have not been a member of this forum or read any other threads. Considering that if you were, you would have known that this is exactly what would happen. When people are voicing their opinions against yours they are, in fact, giving you their opinions that the rating should be different-exactly what you asked them to do. it's giving their reasoning that the rating could/should be different. If you do not want to be flamed, do not open yourself to it.

[rd2000]

Hmm that’s interesting, isn’t that statement completely wrong, why yes, I believe it is. What the hell are you talking about!? Read that statement again, and again, now again and keep reading it until it sinks in to your thick head that Mesaana hadn’t even been introduced to the story at that point. Elaida was the central figure in the splitting of the Tower.

 

Just because Mesaana wasn't introduced does not mean she wasn't around. She probably entered the tower after Elaida deposed Siuan, but she could have been there manipulating things before also. Mesaana's control of Alvarian, and therefore Elaida, puts her as the driving force behind much of what Elaida has done. She has warned other Forsaken to stay away from the WT because she controls it.

[racha_giurgiu]

rd brings up a very good point. We've not met Demandred's alterego and yet we know that wherever he is hiding he is causing all kinds of havoc. We can logically deduce that just because we have not been formally introduced, that does not mean that strings are not being pulled right under their noses.

[CowardsLiveLonger]

Gotta say the sarcasm machin's post tickled me!

 

Demandred - Gotta be one due to him been the only male forsaken yet to die and stronger in the power then the women! Plus he's just majorly cool!

 

Rahvin - Knew what he was doing and got himself into a position of power very quickly, well done to young Rahvin. Shame he was to go so early, he could've done some pretty cool things!

 

Semirhage - Gotta love her, knows no fear and even manged to scare her captures into helping her escape in AoL, classical! Has to be near the top for that simple reason alone!

 

Ishamel(Moridin) - Slightly demented and warped but is very amusing to read about, and the few PoV's we got I loved. Also the entire controlling 2 other forsaken really does kick major ass!

 

Sammael - Probably the least tactful person in all the books, doesn't show much intelligence when it comes to manuvering against the other forsaken but his bluntness was pretty charming! He did get his ass kicked by 2 immense forces at one time though....... not very cool!

 

Be'lal - Gotta be up here for beating Rand in the sword fight (as machin said) how many people beat Rand in a one on one? Well there ya go!

 

Balthamel - Cool points for the entire man/woman thing and got close to Egwene which always is good........ thats not really enough to take him/her to the top though!

 

Lanfear - Is strong but totally sucks! Never really pulled off a good attack against anyone and didn't take any(of many) chances she had to kill Rand and when she does eventually try all the manages to do is pull a darkfriend apart! Nah, not cool!

 

Aginor - Killed twice, once by himself, once by a darkfriend Aes Sedai. If he wasnt so cool as Dashiva and didnt invent just about all shadowspawn he'd be rock bottom! But as it happens he did so, there ya go!

 

Mesaana - Hasn't done much........... but when she comes into the book with that glowing thing going on, you gotta love that, pretty cool!

 

Moghedien - Has failed quite afew times, but at least she's tried to bring a blow against the light, more then some!

 

Graendal - Pretty useless, hasn't really made any real efforts to do anything, is boring to say the least!

 

Asmodean - I like the guy, but for services to the DO he's gotta come rock bottom, did absolutely nothing of use and was captured by Rand, really........ not cool my friend! A loser in total really, didn't even have a good reason for turning to the dark in the first place........... guy needs to sort out his priorities methinks!

[Kadere]

1. Ishamael- Totally insane, and the freaking Nae'blis

2. Lanfear- The most powerful of the female Forsaken.

3. Demandred- The most dangerous of the Shadow's generals.

4. Semirhage- Sadistic doesn't begin to describe.

5. Rahvin- Can play the Game of Houses in his sleep.

6. Sammael- Not only is he freaking awesome as a military general, he's a totally psychotic governor.

7. Graendhal- Insanely hot, and just as dangerous. She'll get you to do stuff you never thought you could.

8. Aginor- created the Trollocs, big marks.

9. Balthamel- womanizer who became a woman and screwed up most of Egwene's plans.

10. Moghedien- The Spider, can rule Tele'rhin'riod from the shadows. Took over the Black Ajah for a time. Just wish Nynaeve hadn't kicked her arse.

11. Be'lal- Great general and swordsman, didn't do much.

12. Messana- My favorite teacher at school, caused kids to burn libraries and start riots. Has successfully ruled the WT from the inside, and if my guess for who she is is right, she's HOT!!!!

13. Asmodean- It's not that he's a bad forsaken, or that he didn't commit enough chaos, it's just all the other's are kinda better then him. Only became a Chosen because he wanted to play music for eternity, he saverly disfigured his prisoners by removing their fingers, hands, eyes, or whatever so that they could no longer perform their art. Which is pretty sadistic. Too bad he turned from the Dark, and then got killed.

[Jellybelly]

Come on, Machin Shin, did you even read the books? There are so many factual errors in those posts of yours it is ridiculous. I will mention a few here. Only a few, because I do not have all day.

 

- Of course Mesaana is responsible for breaking the Tower. How did you not see that? It is especially endearing of you to go off on the guy who commented on this, seeing as you are the one has the shorter straw in this particular argument.

 

- Graendal done nothing? Did you not notice the chaos going on in Arad Doman and Tarabon? Also, she sent Shara into chaos when she kidnapped its rulers.

 

- Asmodean's contribution was hardly useless. He foiled Rand's efforts to gather all the Aiel quite nicely. I trust I do not have to relate to you what those Shaido buggers have done since book four.

 

- Demandred does not, has never and will never masquerade as Mazrim Taim.

[Thorum]

First a question: it's not the first time I hear about it on Dragonmount, but I've never seen it in the books: when did Graendal kidnap Shara's rulers?

 

Then the list:

1) Demandred: is probably preparing some huge thing, which will cause Tarmon Gaidon to begin early in the next book and still isn't known

 

2)Mesaana: has reduced Tower influence almost into nothingness

 

3)Graendal: has brought huge chaos in the West and in Shara

 

4)Sammael: same as Graendal, but in Illian

 

5)Semirhage: tried to take over Seanchan, but gave herself away too soon. She did, however, reduce it to chaos by killing the leaders.

 

6)Be'lal: took over control of Tear, but was killed far too soon. And won from Rand in one-on-one sword fight.

 

7)Rahvin: took over control of Andor, but was killed just before he could use it.

 

8a)Aginor: created the organisms who kept the Dark alife for 3000 years (alone for the periods Ishy wasn't around).

 

8b)Ishamael: simply for being able to control 2 (even lower-ranked) Chosen. And being Nae'blis. And being around from time to time for the last 3000 years.

 

10)Balthamel: could hold the Salidar Aes Sedai down most of the time, but didn't use it.

 

11)Lanfear: stronger than Moghedien and Asmodean and didn't give a lot of tricks to the 'good' side (Rand, Elayne, Egwene, Nynaeve, or someone else). Correct me if I'm wrong on this last one.

 

12)Moghedien: at least tried to do something.

 

13)Asmodean: was Lanfear's slave from the beginning and was killed soon after being 'liberated' from her.

[Kadere]

In Lord of Chaos when you have Sammael's PoV in Chapter 6 "Threads Woven of Shadow," Sammael and Graendal are standing in a chamber looking out on Graendal's toys.

 

Graendal had already moved on, to a very dark-skinned man and woman with curly hair, both of great beauty. The slender pair played oddly elongated harps, with chimes that resonated to the plucked strings in crystalline echoes. "My newest acquistions, from the lands beyond the Aiel Waste. They should thank me for rescuing them. Chiape was Sh'boan, a sort of empress, newly widowed, and Shaofan was to marry her and become Sh'botay. For seven years she would have ruled absolutely, then died. Whereupon he would have chosen a new Sh'boan and ruled absolutely until his death in seven years. They have followed that cycle for nearly three thousand years without a break." She gave a small laugh and shook her head wonderingly. "Shaofan and Chiape insist the deaths are natural. The Will of the Pattern, they call it. To them everything is the Will of the Pattern."

 

These are the rulers of Shara, who she has kidnapped. What her interest with Shara is, or wether this was a deversion for Sammael is unknown. What is known is that this act has caused choas in Shara.

[Luckers]

Well thats not entirely true, the Sh'boan and Sh'botay were rulers in name only. In reality the nation was ruled by the Ayyad, and i rather doubt it was thrust into as much chaos as has been suggested on the board. The Ayyad already have the facilitators in place to deal with having to replace those two, and their use of compulsion means it would not be terribly hard. Indeed by all indications, unrest in Shara has more to do with Rand's influence, then Graendals.

 

That being said i too think Graendal is being underated. She has her fingers in a lot of jars, and for all that others were the ones who acted, her influence cannot be ignored. Remember too that she apparently has the widest circles of power amongst the Friends of the Dark.

 

As for Mesanna, since the most likely candidate for her alter ego is still Danelle, and Danelle was directly responsible for bringing the men into the Tower that led to the escalation of the conflict to bloodshed and all out war, then yes she did have a part in the split, and in Suine being deposed as well. She also played a certain indirect role in seeing Elaida destabalized to the point of breaking, and a very direct role in the current state of things in the Tower.

[DemandredFO]

Here goes the list

1. Ishamael: cool name and what Machin Shin said of Ishamael

2. Demandred: my opinion may change but for now I have to believe he's with the borderlanders and they're a loooong way from home. and I'm sure he's causing plenty more chaos. he may be lowered later if it is seen that he failed miserably. Leaving Lan alive to summon an army is a no-no

3. Greandal: a woman, so she's untouchable by Rand's standards, caused chaos in Arad Doman, Shara and perhaps elsewhere

4. Asmodean: big and only saving grace is that caused the Aiel their greatest harm, split the Shaido and forced Rand to reveal Aiel heritage, hence the bleakness

5. Semirahgue: messed further with the Seanchan, killed imperials cept Tuon.

6. Rahvin: screwed up Andor which is not put right till book 11

7. Balthamel: gotta give him/her points for screwing(sorry bad pun) with the rebels. She killed one of the cuendillar forming AS, forcing Egwene to replace Bode who replaced Kiaren. It's not her fault that Mesaana didn't kill Egwene.

8. Mesaana: Pulled down Siuan, put Eliada in as a puppet and split the tower apart

9. Sammael: came to power in Illian then did nothing cept fail to kill Rand and die.

10. Bel'al: May rise if it turns out he's Taim but otherwise did nothing

11. Aginor: He created shadowspawn and Shaitan would be sunk without them but he really is inept in all other respects. We will have to wait and see the relationship between Taim and Dashiva, he may rise

12. Lanfear: She drilled the bore otherwise inept. Couldn't kill Rand, got herself pulled into Finnland by Moraine, got herself killed and done nothing as Cydane oh, and she got mindtrapped.

13. Mogedien: inept failed miserably and her first after mindtrap attack broke Nyneave's block. big nono

 

This is my revised list

[Luckers]

No, Aginor was killed by an over-dose of the power. He drew too much in trying to gain control of the Eye from Rand and it killed him.

[Machin Shin]

Could racha_giurgiu and jellybelly please direct all future comments to the junk-mail section of this site? Actually, they are not even worthy of the spam section. Please keep them to yourself.

[rd2000]

You really did ask for this. I think your attittude in your reply sparked this to begin with.

 

You say this:

 

If you haven’t got the imagination to do anything other than to find fault with other peoples points of view, then don’t bother posting a reply.

 

then say this just a few lines down:

 

Hmm that’s interesting, isn’t that statement completely wrong, why yes, I believe it is. What the hell are you talking about!? Read that statement again, and again, now again and keep reading it until it sinks in to your thick head that Mesaana hadn’t even been introduced to the story at that point.

 

My point being, you yourself disregarded your own advice on being nice or respectful. Why should any others follow it?

[cannon]

I have to agree with rd2000 on this one.

 

@Machin Shin: I didn't see anyone belitting your opinions in those intial posts, merely telling you where you were factually wrong, or where they felt you weren't giving enough credit. You're the one who started the rather childish belitting of opinions.

 

 

Anyway, for my list, I largely based it on actual accomplishments:

 

1. Ishmael/Moridin - definitely knows what he's doing. He's the only one who seems to have his hands in everything and always know what's going on. There's a reason he's Nae'blis.

 

2. Semirhage - who doesn't love this cute little psycho? Personally, killing off the whole Seanchan royal family and creating mass chaos on the other side of the Arath was a huge surprise to me. Well done.

 

3. Mesaana - uses Elaida's own shortcomings to rip the tower apart. You effectively cripple the force which can do the most damage to you, and can help Rand more than any other. Excellent.

 

4. Demandred - really haven't seen much of anything out of him, but I suspect that when we finally find out what he's up to, the rest of the dominos will fall in place and we'll figure out what he was up to this whole time.

 

5. Lanfear - starts out as this awesome, totally fear-worthy forsaken, and slowly lets all of her many faults shine through. Her ambition hurts more than it helps, she's hungry for power, and her jealousy ultimately leads to her undoing.

 

6. Asmodean - wreaked havoc with the Aiel and eventually all of Randland by setting the Shaido down their path with Couladin's Dragons. Loses points for being a coward whose constantly attaching himself to more powerful people.

 

7. Rahvin - out of all the Forsaken who rose to powerful kingdoms, he's the only one that really did something with it. He destroyed the experienced guard in Caemlyn and basically sowed the seeds which started the battle for the throne of Andor.

 

8. Grendael - so far she's done precious little other than mess with the northeast, which was already in disarray from the Seanchan. Also loses points for being Sammael's bitch for a couple books.

 

9. Bathamel/Halima - really, what did she accomplish? As far as I can tell, Egwene still accomplished a heck of a lot with the SAS, and killing those Aes Sedai with the power didn't stop the SAS from moving forward with the bonding plan once she was found out.

 

10. Aginor/Dashiva - sure he created the Trollocs, but what have you done for me THIS week? Ultimately, he hasn't done jack since waking up, and all the Shadowspawn in the world can't make up for that.

 

11. Sammael - rose to power in Illian and then did nothing. Messed around with the Shaido, which only helped their defeat, and sent off SEVERAL failed attacks against Rand.

 

12. Bel'al - Did he do anything but rise to power in Tear and die?

 

13. Moghedien - so pathetic its sad to even read her parts anymore. She didn't accomplish much, got captured, taught the good guys, and got mindtrapped as a finale.

[DemandredFO]

don't forget Mohgedien broke Nyneave's block by trying to kill her she even failed at that so I agree and further I thank you cannon for giving Asmodean some credit

[olio]

Any way you go about it. Ishmael / Mordin is by far the best out of the forsaken... He is tuff in the source and a good fighter (leaving the never healable scar on Rand side) And good at tactics.. he always seems two steps head of the other forsaken.. And his reason for going over to the shadow... From what i seen he doesn't really have one. He is just plan evil. And likes serving the shadow... even though he is insane he is stil very intelegent.. plushe has his two forsaken slaves.

[SBoydW]

1.Ishamel/Moridin/Ba'alzamon- Because he's always been around and toyed with Rand so much in the begining. I mean come on Rand thought that after he killed him, he thought he had killed the Dark One.

 

2.Lanfear/Cydane- Becasue she nearly killed rand, after she failed in turning him to the dark one, during the whole event that ended in her temporoary disapearence.

 

3.Mesaana- Because of the role she played in splitting the tower, making Elaida no more than a mere puppet, and because I believe she now heads the Black Ajah.

 

4.Aginor- Becasue, even if the this is the only major accomplishment he made, he created the Shadowspawn which have been a plauge on the world since the breaking. if this was not his only accomplishment he could very well be #1.

 

5.Semirhage- she's the master interogater. Case and point.

 

6.Demandred- Not really sure what his plotting is going to reveal but it's gonna be good.

 

7.Asmodean- He flipped the Shaido completely against rand and they are now popping up and ravishing the land across the dragon wall. Especially now that they been scattered all over the place by Sammael.

 

8.Grandael- #8 just seems like a good spot for her.

 

9.Rahvin- Yes he took over Caemlyn and Andor.... But he didn;t do anything with them of any consequence.

 

10.Be'lal- He beat rand in a sword fight but then got balefired. oops.

 

11.Sammael- He's not last because he did take over Illian, but when running from Rand he ran to Shadar Logoth? Come on I know he was trying to trap Rand but there had to be other places. He wouldn't have been dead if he hadn't gone to Shadar Logoth. Rand missed with the balefire, and took out the platform he was standing on, which caused him to fall into Mashadar, therefore killing him.

 

12.Moghedien- Got beaten twice(both times by Nynave once as accpeted) captured once. Attached was collared but Elayne, Egwene and Nynave. and she really never accomplished anything.

 

13.Balthamel- He got turned into a tree.

[Kadere]

how come you leave out the fact that Aginor was Osan'gar and Balathamel was Aran'gar?

[Wolfsbane]

Because we would like to wipe clean the memory of their rebirth? That they were given a second life and what do they do with it?

One gives Egwene headaches... OMGZ headaches! Surely the Light will fail now.

And the other went and got killed by a dark-friend A.S.

 

Why Ish should be the top of all your lists.

 

Ish/Ba'al/Mori - He is the embodiment of the Dark One itself. As Ishamel, he understood the DO's purpose was to destroy everything and still crossed over. It wasn't for power, or riches, or eternal life; he alone knew that he wouldn't get any of that, that when the DO won, he'd annihilate it all, and still wanted to fight for him.

As Ba'alzamon, he destroyed Hawkwing's Nations, made Hawkwing send his armies against TV, wounded the Dragon Reborn, dueled with the DR three times, forced LTT to understand that he killed Ilyena (which as a side-effect, now haunt Rand as he has to share a loft in his head with the mad-guy).

As Moridin, he has reaffirmed control within the Forsaken ranks, chained two to him permaneantly, attacked Rand continuously, helped Rand kill Sammael thus taking out his competition and a Forsaken that was doing little for the Shadow but take up space.

 

All the others don't matter, whether or not Semihrage was good at forcing and answer out of someone doesn't matter.. She'd not Nae'blis. Moridin is, and will be until TG, unless Demandred steps up and does something.

Which he might.

 

-wolfs

[Kadere]

Yeah she gives Egwene head ache's, puts doubt and rebellion through out the rebels, kills a few AS, and working with Messana, Demandred, and Semirhage sets up the entire collapse of the AS, so that Taim's Ash'man can take complete control of the WT once they take the bonds and then over through the entire world. Yeah, she did nothing at all. :roll: