Updated Moridin/Taim Thread

[Kahsm]

That is not to say that he ISN'T either. He never denied it, he just never said that he might not be a standard 3rd ager.

 

We going back to personality takeover? The AoL-ish way his name is pronounced, Ta-eem, his disdain for weapons (very odd for a 3rd ager who should have started as a kid...), so-called/renegade ai-eel, his knowledge of the seals and ability to get one (assuming he actually is the farmer who he claimed had it). The farmer had a beard and Taim shaved it when he totally took over because AoL Taim did not.

 

So basically he seems sane for all those years because he's actually 100% insane and that's the only way it manifested for him!

 

Cooler story imo.

[Sharaman]

Taim is Saldean and apparently of some breeding and education. Every Borderlander is taught the use of weapons from early childhood. Narishma who was an apprentice cobbler was better with the blade than the average Southeron soldier. Taim moves with a warder's grace. I'd bet his disdain for weapons is a sham. He's a bloody good swordsman who conceals that particular ability.

[RandA lThor]

I think that he used to be good at weapons, but now with the Power he doesn't use it anymore.

[Gristle]

I always thought the most relevant piece of information regarding this was the "Events in the south... Demandred always like to work through proxies" comment. That was what really solidified Taim as Demandred's right hand, but not Demandred himself for me. I haven't seen anything that changed that for me.

 

I think he's arrogant and power hungry, and everything he's done can be pointed to it. I don't think he was black yet when he came to Rand. I don't think he cared too much about the Light though either - probably "chaotic neutral" at best - he's looking out for #1. He was easily turned at some point after that because Rand slighted him constantly from the get go. The idea that the BA freed him rings true, but they didn't have to necessarily reveal themselves as such when they did it. AS have their plots, and he got the chance to benefit from one.

 

Then, he goes to Rand thinking himself superior, and is quickly disabused. He thought he was going to be co-Dragon, and instead became a recruiter/trainer who was clearly disliked by his crazy-ass new boss, but he had nowhere else to go. In walks Demandred offering real power - done deal. Demandred gets his proxy, a seat of power, dreadlord farm, and a way to sow chaos without directly harming/confronting Rand (per his instructions). I think Taim's use of AoL vernacular can be tied to his education at the hands of the Forsaken.

 

However, and this is where I'm literally just thinking out loud, I also think that at some point someone may have started taking more direct control over him. He may be mind-trapped, or it could be a heretofore unexplored use of the TP. It's not necessarily exclusive to the Nae'blis, and we don't know that Demandred doesn't have access. Or, Moridin could have just used his status as Nae'blis to take Demandred's toy. Maybe an experienced TP user can make one of those black cords to someone from himself. This could explain the darkening of demeanor, increase in menacing appearance, etc.

 

It could also be that Taim was given a taste of the TP to secure his allegiance and/or is continuing to get occasional lessons with it to keep him in line, and that has caused the darkening, shadows, etc. What better way to secure the loyalty of the power hungry than to give him brief/occasional access to the TP and then take it away to keep him hungry?

[Dagon Thyne]

I don't think that Taim and Moridin are the same because of timeline issues, one was introduced way before the other, and the fact that the character didn't seem to change enough to indicated deception. Also, Moridin does not have enough time on his hands to be at the BT 24/7.

You are forgetting that Moridin and Ishy are the same person, just one is the other reborn. Ishy could have been posing as Taim since EOTW, and continued after being reborn as Moridin. So taim being introduced before Moridin would still fit. Also, Taim is not at the BT all the time. he spends alot of time secluded in his study, which he could use as an excuse to leave, and do other things. No one is going to dare enter his chamber without consent. Plus, you can not tell me that there is not some type of "astro form" weave that allows you to project yourself in more than one place and communicate. He could very well be in more than one place.

[Suttree]

You are forgetting that Moridin and Ishy are the same person, just one is the other reborn. Ishy could have been posing as Taim since EOTW, and continued after being reborn as Moridin.

 

Moridin would never have been captured and then allowed himself to be harried across the continent "rode hard and put away wet" per RJ to reach the amnesty. He would have just travelled to Caemlyn.

 

Plus, you can not tell me that there is not some type of "astro form" weave that allows you to project yourself in more than one place and communicate. He could very well be in more than one place.

 

Seeing as how we have never seen or even had a hint of something like that, why not? If it was possible it would have been used by now.

[Mr Ares]

I would rather you felt morally obliged to not drop hints about what's in the prologue.

[yoniy0]

I removed those posts, and I second Mr. Ares. To add to his notion, I'd rather you guys reported these things so we can get to them in a timely manner.

[Sightblinder'sMinder]

I'm pretty sure Taim isn't one of the Forsaken, however, I don't think he's a simple Darkfriend either, mostly because of his use of archaic language, and knowledge. Granted, he obviously could've learned ancient secrets from the Forsaken, but I find it highly unlikely that he would've tried to emulate their way of speaking (it's possible, of course, but not a very good explanation for why he uses arcane terminology like "the so-called Aiel", and "Severing", etc..).

 

As for Chanellers living long lives, some are several centuries old, like certain members of the Kin, for example, but 300 years isn't enough to explain Taim's vernacular. To know about "the so-called Aiel", Taim would either have to be 3,000 years old, or a secret Aiel chieftain who's survived the initiation at Rhuidean.

 

So, who, or what is Taim? Well, we know other "people" than just the Forsaken were locked up in Shayol Ghul (the Gholam, for instance). Could it be Taim is an ancient Dreadlord who was locked in Shayol Ghul along with the Forsaken? Or, worse yet, could he be some form of Shadowspawn specifically created for his purpose?

 

Another theory: Could Taim be something akin to Slayer; the merging of two souls? Perhaps he's some kind of ancient Aes Sedai version of that. But, who his second identity might be is another question entirely.

 

I'm just throwing crap out there, but Taim theories have always captured my interest. I guess we'll finally know what his deal is soon enough.

[Mr Ares]

So, who, or what is Taim? Well, we know other "people" than just the Forsaken were locked up in Shayol Ghul (the Gholam, for instance). Could it be Taim is an ancient Dreadlord who was locked in Shayol Ghul along with the Forsaken? Or, worse yet, could he be some form of Shadowspawn specifically created for his purpose?

Actually, we don't know that other "people" were caught at SG. We know that some things were held in stasis boxes - the gholam, for example. We also know there were no Dreadlords in the AoL. If he was from then, he was either a Light-sider, or he was a Chosen. Dreadlords was a term created for the Trolloc Wars.

[yoniy0]

Is that true, that each and every AS who turned to the Shadow was Chosen? No, what am I saying, there were like 27-29 chosen back then, and literally tens of thousands AS turned, isn't that true?

[Barid Bel Medar]

Is that true, that each and every AS who turned to the Shadow was Chosen? No, what am I saying, there were like 27-29 chosen back then, and literally tens of thousands AS turned, isn't that true?

 

Indeed, but apparently they were all called the Chosen.

 

INTERVIEW: Jan 25th, 2005

TOR Questions of the Week Part II (Verbatim)

 

Forsaken was the name given to Aes Sedai who went over to the Shadow in the War of the Shadow at the end of the Age of Legends, though of course, they called themselves the Chosen, and despite the tales of the "current" Age, there were many more than a few of them. Since they occupied all sorts of levels, you might say that many were equivalent to some of the lesser Dreadlords, but it would be incorrect to call them so. At the time, they were all Forsaken—or Chosen—from the greatest to the least.

 

Dreadlord is a term created in the 3rd age.

 

(from the same interview)

 

ROBERT JORDAN

First off, Dreadlords was the name given to men and women who could channel and sided with the Shadow in the Trolloc Wars. Yes, the women were called Dreadlords, too. They might have liked to call themselves "the Chosen," like the Forsaken, but feared to. The real Forsaken might not have appreciated it when they returned, as prophecies of the Shadow foretold would happen. Some of the Dreadlords had authority and responsibility equivalent to that of the Forsaken in the War of the Shadow, however. They ran the Shadow's side of the Trolloc Wars, though without the inherent ability to command the Myrddraal that the Forsaken possess, meaning they had to negotiate with them. Overall command at the beginning was in another's hands.

[yoniy0]

So, the ~30 number I recall is only those who were given access to the TP? Ha, well, that sorta makes sense (it does conflict somewhat with Graendal's sentiment that the Chosen are more than mere humans, but whatever).

[Barid Bel Medar]

So, the ~30 number I recall is only those who were given access to the TP? Ha, well, that sorta makes sense (it does conflict somewhat with Graendal's sentiment that the Chosen are more than mere humans, but whatever).

 

Yeah, I am not sure. (is Graendal's statement in a Brandon book, it could be an oversight?) It could be that Graendal was talking about the AoL people were so far advanced they were more than just human in this age.

 

19 (or 29, I can't quite remember) people supposedly had access to the TP according to Mogehdien in aCoS Chapter 25.

[yoniy0]

No, it's a TFoH reference, in her meeting with Rahvin, Sammael and Lanfear. I'm not home, so I can't find the quote right now, but she's talking about there needing to be a new word to describe them, since 'human' applies to such lowly creatures as the ones she enslaves. Either way, thanks for that quote. I've read it before, but I guess that part just didn't sink in.