Updated Moridin/Taim Thread

[RandA lThor]

That is a valid theory, even more impressive if you thought of it while you were drunk.

[OptimusPrime]

We're told in this very same book that it takes an unusually high level of skill to make an illusion that can withstand touch. Thus there are limitations on how closely it can match while at the same time being sustainable.

 

Exactly. And since Taim and Moridin are both of a similar height to Rand, the only thing that needs to be changed is the face.

[RandA lThor]

Which he didn't do perfectly due to the beard.

[Mr Ares]

I agree that this is not a valid reason, buy I think he said that he shaved because he was hot.

'"I shaved, Bashere." His voice held more than a hint of mockery. "It is hot this far south, or had you not noticed?"' As I said, he was mocking Bashere, not giving it as a serious explanation.

 

Why not just show up as a male wilder, already experienced with channeling? What benefit does the name Taim bring?

Rand is correctly suspicious that the Forsaken would to try to infiltrate his channeler gathering (thus his warning to Taim that a student who learns too fast might be a forsaken). Mazrim Taim is at this point the only publicly known channeler and additionally one who is known to be extremely powerful.

 

Rand is gathering channelers. By sending someone in as Taim they can get him into a position of authority relatively close to Rand. Remember, when Taim shows up he is expecting to be Rand's lieutenant/ally/mentor, and is annoyed that he'll have to teach a bunch of yokels.

 

The only other option is to kill and replace someone who is close to Rand. Replacing a known person with existing relationships is very difficult, which is why Mesaana replaces an Aes Sedai who is a loner.

Taim is the highest profile male channeler, but as Rand would know, there is nothing inherently suspicious about being a male channeler. Some people have the spark. Not all of them run around calling themselves the Dragon Reborn. If someone shows up and claims to be a wilder, why would you disbelieve him? Yes, Rand is aware of the potential for the Chosen to attempt to infiltrate, but unless you give him an actual reason to be suspicious of you, it will not be a problem.

 

Mazrim Taim's notoriety is itself a negative. The man gathered an army and began cutting a swathe through Saldaea. It would be whooly understandable if this alienates certain rulers. In other words, he turns people against him by backing Taim. Also, just because you have created a haven for channelers, doesn't mean you are willing to forgive any and all crimes carried out by those channelers before they arrived. Taim set himself up as a warlord. It would be whooly understandable if Rand was reluctant to put him in a position of authority or trust under those circumstances. Taim didn't get hisposition based on his name, he got it because he could do the job. If all you need is someone to do the job, then anyone will do. And Corlan Dashiva, a farmer from the Black Hills, was one of the Chosen, one who infiltrated the BT and accompanied Rand in person for quite a while. So, aside from this indicating that the BT is a two-Chosen job, also indicates that it is entirely possible to infiltrate the BT under an assumed name and become an Asha'man or hang around with Rand, thus proving that any pretence of being Taim is pointless. It accomplishes nothing that could not be accomplished more easily by not being Taim.

 

And if you wanted to get accepted as Taim, why not just wear a Taim Illusion? Why use a poor Illusion and then have to use the knowledge you gained from interrogating Taim to do the job, when if you showed up as anyone but Taim there would be no-one to say you were not who you said you were?

We're told in this very same book that it takes an unusually high level of skill to make an illusion that can withstand touch. Thus there are limitations on how closely it can match while at the same time being sustainable.

Why would the Illusion have to hold up to touch? Does he think that Rand likes to rub the faces of his closest lieutenants? Stroke his beard, perhaps? He's there to take advantage of the Dragon's amnesty, not to sleep with him. He doesn't have to feel the same, he has to look the same (and simply avoid too much physical contact, especially of sorts that would reveal him). And he doesn't even do that - he looks older and more haggard as a result of the rigours of his journey (because apparently Moridin is really into method acting) and lacks a beard. Impersonating Taim already makes no sense, impersonating him badly surely adds nothing.

[TootThatHorn]

If taim is moridin i will personally eat through a hat and post the video online.

 

There are just two different people with one as the big boss and the other is his leutanant

 

On the whole I think that there are a lot of big problems with this theory so I understand everyone's skepticism (I'm on the fence even though I started this post). That being said, I too would like to see some hat eating.

 

indeed...i only speculate the theory, dont get behind it, but in the event it happens, i will quote you on this lol and no cheating with a straw hat or anything, i want fabric!!

[OptimusPrime]

Which he didn't do perfectly due to the beard.

 

No no, keeping the beard would have interfered with the disguise. So shaving added to the effect, but was given as the whole reason

[Barid Bel Medar]

Which he didn't do perfectly due to the beard.

 

No no, keeping the beard would have interfered with the disguise. So shaving added to the effect, but was given as the whole reason

 

Well, what we have seems to suggest otherwise.

 

INTERVIEW: Jul 16th, 2011

PolarisCon Report - herid (Paraphrased)

 

HERID

I also asked him again (Terez asked him about it on my behalf before) about why Taim when he first shows up in Lord of Chaos says that he shaved because of the heat, yet it's mentioned twice in that very scene that he is not sweating and he later teaches Rand the antisweating trick and tells him that it works so well that Rand would soon be able to completely ignore even extreme heat and cold. I discuss this in detail in my blog as I believe it proves that Taim is an impostor.

 

BRANDON SANDERSON

He said that this issue is not discussed in the notes and he missed it himself previously so the best he can say is that this is meant to show that Taim is a suspicious character who is not to be trusted.

 

 

INTERVIEW: Apr 17th, 2011

Driving Mr. Sanderson - Terez (Verbatim)

 

TEREZ (HERID)

If Taim already knew how to ignore heat, why did he shave his beard? (Because of the way he read it.) That's not my question.

 

BRANDON SANDERSON

 

I have no idea.

TEREZ

(laughs) I didn't figure you would.

BRANDON SANDERSON

That's a pretty random question. I don't even think that's in the notes; I'll be honest with you....that's really not the sort of thing Jim put in his notes, so I'm guessing...I can MAFO that one, if you want to ask Maria, but I really don't know.

MARIA SIMONS

I don't know either.

 

Both seem to suggest that there is no real point to the beard thing. It is not a detail that is important. If it did = something to do with a MoM or illusion, it would be in the notes.

[fikkie77]

Maybe Harriet wanted to Jordan to shave his beard and Jordan simply shaved the beard of one of his characters... It might be something as simple as that.

[jwood01]

Not sure if this has been dealt with. Would the Saa from using the True Power be hidden by a Mask of Mirrors disguise?

[RandA lThor]

Yes, I think a mask or mirrors can hide everything or change anything about you.

[Sharaman]

MoM is disturbed by touch. So it can't be used safely to alter massive physical differences. That is, a tall guy can;t make himself look shorter/ vice-versa without taking the risk of a giveaway. Taim does touch people during his opening scene - Flynn among others and he's touched by various Saldeans with swords. So if he's using MoM, he is at least, not fooling with massive physical differences. That is, he's the same height/width/ clean-shaven, etc., as he looks.

[TheAngryDruid]

OK, first off, good discussion, though I think Mr. Ares is a bit reluctant and too dismissive of facts that point to Taim (at leas the person we see in LoC on who calls himself Taim) as a second-ager. Still, I'll admit he has reason for sketicsim given the many problems with the theory, most notably the time issue and the conflicting orders issue. I'll deal with both later. But first, I think there is one important point missing from the very good initial summary from the OP:

 

1. Forsaken Sigil on Taim's Palace

 

Again, this is from LInda at the 13th:

http://13depository....l#forsakensigil

 

Broad stone stairs rose to a wide landing in front of tall twinned doors. Each bore a gauntleted fist gripping three lightning bolts, carved large and gilded.

 

- Knife of Dreams, Epilogue (Taim's palace)

 

Nynaeve saw the sigil painted [on the carriage door]. A silver-gauntleted fist clutching jagged lightning bolts. She supposed it was High Lord Samon's [be’lal’s] sign...

 

- The Dragon Reborn, Bait For the Net (Be'lal's sigil in Tear)

 

His [sammael's] chair was heavy wood, carved with...a steel-gauntleted fist clasping lightning at the back's peak.

 

- Fires of Heaven, A Silver Arrow

 

As Linda points out, it seems a common sigil for the Forsaken's generals (Be'lal & Sammael). We've yet to see Demandred. Open use of the sigil at Taim's palace is highly suggestive he is one of Shadow's generals, at the least. Now, I'm sure the Mr. Ares crowd would say, Taim's a new chosen or just a high ranking DF. The former is certainly possible, but we've yet to see it. And when did Taim become chosen, after getting captured by AS? We know how the DO reacts to his chosen getting captured (Moghedien's POV). So what did Taim do to merit new Chosen status?

 

And the fact that Samael's guantlets are steel, Be'lal's silver, and the ones on Taim's palace are gilded (gold), is indicative that Taim has a higher rank than Sammael or Be'lal. Which seems to fit more with Ishamael/Moridin's status, not that of a mere high ranking DF. Though I'll admit Moridin's protege is a possibillity. But still, that's an awful lot of responsibility for a protegee, and we know Chosen don't like knowledge and power to reside in the same person (Mesaana POV).

 

And another important piece is the Taim knowing the "Let the lord of Chaos rule" phrasing that were verbatim the instructions the DO gave to Demandred. Now, maybe the Forsaken passed this info on to a high-ranking lieutenant, but is it suggestive, is it not? We don't hear Mili Skane repeating the DO's verbatim instructions. Heck, sometimes other Forsaken are even unsure.

 

======================

 

Moving on to respond to some more issues in detail. Some responses here obviously don't get the gist of the theory: which isn't that Ishy has been Taim all along, but that the person whom appeared to Rand in Caemlyn in LoC is in fact Moridin disguised as Taim, not the person previously known as Taim.

 

Personally, I don't go so far as to say Moridin actually has Taim's old body, and the person we see as Taim is a MotM disguise (he'd need one anyway to hide the saa), but I think that a body that looks like Taim was found (tall, dark, hook-nosed, and handsome), and Ishy was transmitigated into it. But, etiher way, a mask is needed. We've seen the transmitigation of souls into a new body with Aginor and Balthamel being reborn as Oran'gar and Osan'gar. (Note that Aginor and Balthamel die at the end of the tEotW and are introduced at the beginning of LoC, while Ishy dies at the end of tDR and Taim in introduced at the end of LoC; timeline does fit). And we've also seen Semirhage at work on a captive AS and her warder to get information (poor Cabriana Mecandes), which Aran'gar used to take her place next to Egwene. I submit something similar was done with Taim/Ishy. Maybe they re-used his body, maybe not.

 

As for not having enough time, that issue can be overcome in various ways, all of which Moridin would have access too and knowledge of. First off is the parallel worlds of the Portal Stones, where we know time flows differenlty. All he needs is one where is flows slower, and he can work there. Second, of lesser use, is T'A'R. Third, is the vacuole. We know Moridin has a vast store of items of the power (via Graendal PoV), and that he (or Shadar Haran) has access to vacuoles (vis Moggy PoV). I suspect he spends a lot of time there.

 

As for the conflicting orders, I think this is the most serious obstancle in the theory, and off-hand, I can't remember the specific orders/differences and when they occured. So I'll offer only general suggestions, if someone in the doubting camp wants to do the leg-work for more specifics, I'll try to make more responsive points. First, Moridin/Ishy has already gone back and forth on turning Rand (tEotW, much of tGH, most of the middle books) and trying to kill him (tDR, end of tGH) or been indifferent to whether he lives or dies (instructions to other Forsaken at the cleansing). So, we know Moridin himself has been inconsistent on the issue, so I don't think Moridin/Taim being inconsistent on the issue carries much weight on the issue of them being different people (in fact, one could argue just the opposite).

 

Further, we know that Moridin likes to play both sides of the board (Moridin PoV, Path of Daggers prologue). Maybe his inconsistent behavior towards the Dragon's fate has something to do with it. If he dies, he wins, but not as big as he wants. If he's turned, he wins bigger. He'd prefer the latter, but will take the former, as long as the DO isn't expressly against it. So maybe this is just Moridin playing both sides of the board.

 

Third, he is insane, you know.

 

So, best I can do for the conflicting orders off the top of my head. Kind of weak, I'll admit.

[Mr Ares]

OK, first off, good discussion, though I think Mr. Ares is a bit reluctant and too dismissive of facts that point to Taim (at leas the person we see in LoC on who calls himself Taim) as a second-ager. Still, I'll admit he has reason for sketicsim given the many problems with the theory, most notably the time issue and the conflicting orders issue. I'll deal with both later. But first, I think there is one important point missing from the very good initial summary from the OP:

 

1. Forsaken Sigil on Taim's Palace

 

Again, this is from LInda at the 13th:

http://13depository....l#forsakensigil

 

Broad stone stairs rose to a wide landing in front of tall twinned doors. Each bore a gauntleted fist gripping three lightning bolts, carved large and gilded.

 

- Knife of Dreams, Epilogue (Taim's palace)

 

Nynaeve saw the sigil painted [on the carriage door]. A silver-gauntleted fist clutching jagged lightning bolts. She supposed it was High Lord Samon's [be’lal’s] sign...

 

- The Dragon Reborn, Bait For the Net (Be'lal's sigil in Tear)

 

His [sammael's] chair was heavy wood, carved with...a steel-gauntleted fist clasping lightning at the back's peak.

 

- Fires of Heaven, A Silver Arrow

 

As Linda points out, it seems a common sigil for the Forsaken's generals (Be'lal & Sammael). We've yet to see Demandred. Open use of the sigil at Taim's palace is highly suggestive he is one of Shadow's generals, at the least. Now, I'm sure the Mr. Ares crowd would say, Taim's a new chosen or just a high ranking DF. The former is certainly possible, but we've yet to see it. And when did Taim become chosen, after getting captured by AS? We know how the DO reacts to his chosen getting captured (Moghedien's POV). So what did Taim do to merit new Chosen status?

 

And the fact that Samael's guantlets are steel, Be'lal's silver, and the ones on Taim's palace are gilded (gold), is indicative that Taim has a higher rank than Sammael or Be'lal. Which seems to fit more with Ishamael/Moridin's status, not that of a mere high ranking DF. Though I'll admit Moridin's protege is a possibillity. But still, that's an awful lot of responsibility for a protegee, and we know Chosen don't like knowledge and power to reside in the same person (Mesaana POV).

Personally, I see the sigil as evidence against Taim being Moridin. My reasoning is simple: we see inside Moridin's fortress, and it lacks this sigil. So it is not a sigil Moridin uses, so far as we have any reason to believe, but it is one Taim uses. It alone is not reason to dismiss the theory, of course, but I think it is further suggestive evidence to indicate difference between them - and thus further undermines the theory.

 

As for the conflicting orders, I think this is the most serious obstancle in the theory, and off-hand, I can't remember the specific orders/differences and when they occured. So I'll offer only general suggestions, if someone in the doubting camp wants to do the leg-work for more specifics, I'll try to make more responsive points. First, Moridin/Ishy has already gone back and forth on turning Rand (tEotW, much of tGH, most of the middle books) and trying to kill him (tDR, end of tGH) or been indifferent to whether he lives or dies (instructions to other Forsaken at the cleansing). So, we know Moridin himself has been inconsistent on the issue, so I don't think Moridin/Taim being inconsistent on the issue carries much weight on the issue of them being different people (in fact, one could argue just the opposite).

The problem with the orders is Moridin would appear to be hamstringing himself to no gain. Taim orders Rand to be killed, then Demandred orders the same, then Moridin says kill him if you have to, but his priority is the retrieval of Rand's possessions. By giving these minions two different priorities, you reduce the chances of getting what you really want. Time they devote to plotting murder could have been more productively spent plotting theft. What does he want these guys to do? He might be insane, but he isn't stupid.

[RandA lThor]

OK, first off, good discussion, though I think Mr. Ares is a bit reluctant and too dismissive of facts that point to Taim (at leas the person we see in LoC on who calls himself Taim) as a second-ager. Still, I'll admit he has reason for sketicsim given the many problems with the theory, most notably the time issue and the conflicting orders issue. I'll deal with both later. But first, I think there is one important point missing from the very good initial summary from the OP:

 

1. Forsaken Sigil on Taim's Palace

 

Again, this is from LInda at the 13th:

http://13depository....l#forsakensigil

 

Broad stone stairs rose to a wide landing in front of tall twinned doors. Each bore a gauntleted fist gripping three lightning bolts, carved large and gilded.

 

- Knife of Dreams, Epilogue (Taim's palace)

 

Nynaeve saw the sigil painted [on the carriage door]. A silver-gauntleted fist clutching jagged lightning bolts. She supposed it was High Lord Samon's [be’lal’s] sign...

 

- The Dragon Reborn, Bait For the Net (Be'lal's sigil in Tear)

 

His [sammael's] chair was heavy wood, carved with...a steel-gauntleted fist clasping lightning at the back's peak.

 

- Fires of Heaven, A Silver Arrow

 

As Linda points out, it seems a common sigil for the Forsaken's generals (Be'lal & Sammael). We've yet to see Demandred. Open use of the sigil at Taim's palace is highly suggestive he is one of Shadow's generals, at the least. Now, I'm sure the Mr. Ares crowd would say, Taim's a new chosen or just a high ranking DF. The former is certainly possible, but we've yet to see it. And when did Taim become chosen, after getting captured by AS? We know how the DO reacts to his chosen getting captured (Moghedien's POV). So what did Taim do to merit new Chosen status?

 

And the fact that Samael's guantlets are steel, Be'lal's silver, and the ones on Taim's palace are gilded (gold), is indicative that Taim has a higher rank than Sammael or Be'lal. Which seems to fit more with Ishamael/Moridin's status, not that of a mere high ranking DF. Though I'll admit Moridin's protege is a possibillity. But still, that's an awful lot of responsibility for a protegee, and we know Chosen don't like knowledge and power to reside in the same person (Mesaana POV).

Personally, I see the sigil as evidence against Taim being Moridin. My reasoning is simple: we see inside Moridin's fortress, and it lacks this sigil. So it is not a sigil Moridin uses, so far as we have any reason to believe, but it is one Taim uses. It alone is not reason to dismiss the theory, of course, but I think it is further suggestive evidence to indicate difference between them - and thus further undermines the theory.

 

As for the conflicting orders, I think this is the most serious obstancle in the theory, and off-hand, I can't remember the specific orders/differences and when they occured. So I'll offer only general suggestions, if someone in the doubting camp wants to do the leg-work for more specifics, I'll try to make more responsive points. First, Moridin/Ishy has already gone back and forth on turning Rand (tEotW, much of tGH, most of the middle books) and trying to kill him (tDR, end of tGH) or been indifferent to whether he lives or dies (instructions to other Forsaken at the cleansing). So, we know Moridin himself has been inconsistent on the issue, so I don't think Moridin/Taim being inconsistent on the issue carries much weight on the issue of them being different people (in fact, one could argue just the opposite).

The problem with the orders is Moridin would appear to be hamstringing himself to no gain. Taim orders Rand to be killed, then Demandred orders the same, then Moridin says kill him if you have to, but his priority is the retrieval of Rand's possessions. By giving these minions two different priorities, you reduce the chances of getting what you really want. Time they devote to plotting murder could have been more productively spent plotting theft. What does he want these guys to do? He might be insane, but he isn't stupid.

 

we didn't get a full tour of Moridin's palace, it may just not have been mentioned

[EmperorMayhem]

i CAN'T WAIT to find out what the truth of the matter is. then we can put an end to all this debate on Taim :P

[RandA lThor]

And another like 10,000 debates

[Mr Ares]

we didn't get a full tour of Moridin's palace, it may just not have been mentioned

Perhaps, but I consider that a rather weak argument. It's not evidence of similarity, or in favour of Taim being Moridin, it is at best an absence of evidence. So at best, the sigil can be used to support neither side. Of course, if Moridin didn't use that sigil then unless there was something noteworthy in his not using it (bearing in mind a lot of other Chosen have never been seen using it either), then surely the most likely thing to take away from there being no sign Moridin uses this sigil is that he probably doesn't use it.

 

i CAN'T WAIT to find out what the truth of the matter is. then we can put an end to all this debate on Taim :P

So naive. If the Taimandred arguments are anything to go by, we'll be plagued by people who didn't notice the evidence that killed the theory, the hundred and one statements from BS that kill the theory, and a few who see the evidence and stick stubbornly to the story that BS must have changed his mind, or overlooked that important part in the notes, because the evidence is just too damn strong and they couldn't be wrong about something like this, oh no.

 

Frankly, I think someone should try asking Brandon straight. At worst we'll get a RAFO, but I don't think it that unlikely that he'd just shoot it down.

[fyodor]

we didn't get a full tour of Moridin's palace, it may just not have been mentioned

Perhaps, but I consider that a rather weak argument. It's not evidence of similarity, or in favour of Taim being Moridin, it is at best an absence of evidence. So at best, the sigil can be used to support neither side. Of course, if Moridin didn't use that sigil then unless there was something noteworthy in his not using it (bearing in mind a lot of other Chosen have never been seen using it either), then surely the most likely thing to take away from there being no sign Moridin uses this sigil is that he probably doesn't use it.

 

Yeah, I don't take the sigils as being evidence of Moridin specifically so much as just general association with the Forsaken. There are some specific associations with Moridin (palace coloring, dressing the Ashaman in red and black, etc) but it's an open question whether these just mean that he's Moridin's apprentice or Moridin himself.

 

 

i CAN'T WAIT to find out what the truth of the matter is. then we can put an end to all this debate on Taim :P

So naive. If the Taimandred arguments are anything to go by, we'll be plagued by people who didn't notice the evidence that killed the theory, the hundred and one statements from BS that kill the theory, and a few who see the evidence and stick stubbornly to the story that BS must have changed his mind, or overlooked that important part in the notes, because the evidence is just too damn strong and they couldn't be wrong about something like this, oh no.

 

Well, hopefully we'll get something explicit on camera explaning who the hell Taim is. The whole Black Tower thing is probably the main "tactical" plot that I really want to see resolved (as opposed to strategic plot questions like whether Rand lives, how the Dark One is defeated, the nature of the next age, etc.)

 

Frankly, I think someone should try asking Brandon straight. At worst we'll get a RAFO, but I don't think it that unlikely that he'd just shoot it down.

 

I think that someone has already asked a more indirect question and got a RAFO.

 

Interview: Nov 21st, 2011

 

Alloy of Law Signing Report - littleleicesterfox (Paraphrased)

Landro

 

Was the person we know as Taim who is currently leading the Black Tower the same as the one who declared himself as a false Dragon?

Brandon Sanderson

 

RAFO.

[RandA lThor]

wow, that really does make someone think that he isn't and is someone else like Moridin, but he could have just done that to keep the discussion going

[Barid Bel Medar]

Brandon (and RJ) have been very closed mouthed about Taim. I wouldn't read too much into that. Here is what Brandon had to say about it.

 

 

INTERVIEW: Nov 6th, 2010

TOM Signing Report - Robert Mee (Paraphrased)

 

 

ROBERT MEE

I just asked if Taim was a "standard" Third Ager. He pondered it for a minute or so before explaining that he had a few more chapters to write about what was happening at the Black Tower, so he didn't want to give too much away.

 

 

Taim will be at least partially revealed in aMoL. Perhaps we will not get the full story, but there is more to come. He is only keeping the discussion going, because he does not want to give too much away.

[OptimusPrime]

Brandon (and RJ) have been very closed mouthed about Taim. I wouldn't read too much into that.

 

I agree, although it made me smile when I read it :D

 

He did once say Taim might not be a standard Third Ager though.

[Barid Bel Medar]

He did once say Taim might not be a standard Third Ager though.

 

Actually, that is not quite true. It was the reporter that made that assumption.

 

INTERVIEW: Nov 6th, 2010

TOM Signing Report - Robert Mee (Paraphrased)

 

 

BRANDON SANDERSON

 

Taim may not be a standard Third Ager. Brandon wouldn't say any further because he has about five chapters revolving around the Black Tower to write for the beginning of the next book and he didn't want to spoil, so it was half a RAFO.

MATT HATCH

Specific questions?

ROBERT MEE

I just asked if Taim was a "standard" Third Ager. He pondered it for a minute or so before explaining that he had a few more chapters to write about what was happening at the Black Tower, so he didn't want to give too much away.

 

I only put the last part of the report because the first is misleading. Brandon never said that. He basically said RAFO on the question.

[OptimusPrime]

Ah ok thanks dude, my bad

[Barid Bel Medar]

That is not to say that he ISN'T either. He never denied it, he just never said that he might not be a standard 3rd ager.

[mauifranko78]

I think too much is made of Taim's current behavior and taking some of those traits and connecting him to Moridin or Dem. He named himself a False Dragon. Going along with that is arrogance, delusions of grandeur, menacing attitude, jealousy toward Rand coming later, etc.. Logain showed some of the same traits before he was gentled.

 

I think the simplest explanation is the most likely. Two male channelers emerged in roughly the same time period as Rand. One of them was gentled by the time any of the Forsaken were free(and healing that impossible to all then). The other, had just started running rampage and was captured after the events at the TEOTW. It is fair to say, one of the Forsaken's mission from the DO is to rebuild the ranks of the Dreadlords, including male dreadlords. Black Ajah would not be able to do this. Likely Ishy or Demandred was given this task. We have heard Dem tell the DO that his forces are ready. (possibly male dreadlords?) Since we have never been told what Dem's been up to, I would guess it's him. Regardless, I think it is clear that this task has been now pushed on Taim. We see the BT split. We see 13x13 of some of the Ashaman loyal to Rand/Logain. We know from Logain that Taim has his own group of 50-100 Ashaman training directly under him. Remember, Ishy and Dem are generals. Not grunts. Generals do not spend their time scouring the land investigating the location of other possible channelers. This is well beneath them. I think the simplest explanation is for them to train a 3rd ager with the tools necessary to do this. After the FS are freed from SG, who can channel saidin in the 3rd age?? Rand, Logain (gentled), and Taim.

 

Back in TSR we learn that Ishy did have interest in Taim. The story the BA sisters gave the wonder girls likely was mixed with truth. Ishy/Dem did intend to free Taim, but not for the reasons given. We do not know the events of Taim's "escape". But I find it very unlikely that he simply figured out how to escape in the midst of a bunch of AS trained specifically for returning male channelers to the White Tower. Almost certainly, either the BA, Dem, or Ishy freed Taim and took/sent him to Shayol Ghul. There he is given the choice to die or serve. All of his AOL comments and AOL vocabulary come from talking/learning from Dem or Ishy. Someone taught him to test for other male channelers. Why would he have even tried to learn this on his own?? How could have learned what gateways were on his own?? He is actually a AOL'er in disguise?? He survived in a stasis box from the AOL?? Or more likely has learned all this from them, via Dem or Ishy?? Simplest answer most likely.

 

Once the Amnesty is announced and Taim is fully trained, he Travels to Caemlyn and infiltrates Rand's group. We know nothing of his origin/story told to Rand at their first meeting is true. Taim claims to have received a DO seal from someone in Saldaea. Yet, he is released from captivity East of the Black Hills, almost to Tar Valon. If he had a seal in his possession when the AS captured him in Saldaea, why would they have let him keep it?? If he was "escaping", how could have had time to go find it from them?? It is more likely given to him by one of the FS. Possibly a means for getting Rand to accept him. But clearly he is lying about where he got it. And certainly doesn't give detail as to how he might free himself from Aes Sedai shielding him.

 

We have been intentionally kept in the dark about Taim and Demandred, so of course this is mostly speculation. But I think the damning evidence for him being either is the grunt work. Nothing of the experiences we have seen from the BT at any point in the series would suggest that Taim hasn't been the one (at least at the beginning) doing all of the work in finding and training Ashaman. We have seen, from Ashaman that he is still there, at the Black Tower, training soldiers/dedicated. He is there and actively working with the recruits and later the "select" group. It is pretty clear to me that he is a wholly separate entity in the series, who's specific task was to infiltrate Rand's group and from within build up the ranks of the Dreadlords.

 

"Let the Lord Of Chaos Rule". Would any of the FS tell any of their underlings EXACTLY what the DO said to them?? My feeling is that Mazrim Taim, freed by Forsaken, is now making his own trips to see the DO. Perhaps at some point even given a taste of the TP.