Will saidin "disappear" after LB?

[Greger]

Topic pretty much says it all. Sooner or later the usage of the one power will die out if our current age is to appear. Will it somehow have anything to do with the Last Battle? I'm not sure if this have been discussed or if there are any evidence on exactly how the ability to channel disappears. Throughout the books we've been told that the ability to channel is decreasing, probably because of the gentling of male channelers. However I personally believe that with the taint gone there will be an increase in the ability to channel (and I've also read somewhere either on this forum or in the books that there are women out there who specifically finds male channelers and, for a lack of a better word, 'mates'). So I for one believe that the ability to channel will be caused by either saidin or saidar disappears (or both). We know that in a possible future seen by Aviendha that women still can channel saidar (did we see saidin..?), so it's safe to assume that saidar is still there after LB, leaving the possibility of saidin disappearing after LB. Exactly how this will happen, or if it is even possible, is up for discussion.

[Terez]

We know from the same future visions that men could still channel. The Black Tower was referenced, and Seanchan collaring men, and the Aiel had their 'Dragon Blooded'.

 

It's seemed like a logical possibility for a long time, but I've never been able to believe it, partly because it's so anticlimatic for certain character arcs. Aviendha's visions of the future made it that much more unlikely, not because things will go down the same way (it's almost certain they won't), but because it seems unlikely that there is one way to rebuild the Dark One's prison successfully that causes the Power to go away, and another that doesn't.

[Rufae]

I think it is safe to say that the 4th Age will be channeling enabled. I don't think you could totally take away one side of the One Power without taking away the other. They both come from the same Source.

 

Also, Avi's visions are not exactly how things will go after the resealing of the prison. It is one possibility of thousands that was meant to instruct Avi on what direction to take the Aiel post-Last Battle. By showing her the Aiel without honor and without purpose, it showed Avi that she needed to find a new purpose for the Aiel now the Last Battle was done

[Barid Bel Medar]

Logically, it would, because there are ages when Channelling is forgotten, but it is impossible in terms of plot, too much of the series relies on the OP.

 

It would mean that, effectively, Egwene's arc was all for nothing post-TG.

 

The Seanchan arc would be for nothing.

 

The Black Tower would be for nothing. And the co-operation between the sexes would be for nothing.

 

Most of the characters would have a death sentence if the OP disappeared. (Depression and such over the loss of the OP)

 

Besides, it would be pretty impossible to only remove one half, as Sam said. It would have to be both sides of the OP.

[Tyzack]

It is possible that OP usage could be naturally culled out of humanity in a future age; it was very close in this age after all.

[FarShainMael]

Or it may happen that something shields humanity at large from the True Source. A sort of planet-wide Guardian à la Far Madding. Not sure what form that would take or how it would be disabled to allow channelling in tha AoL and afterwards, though.

[RandA lThor]

Well, if you are able to cut off the TP, then it will have to be discovered again. Maybe a barrier that blocks the TP is what the seals are and when Lanfear tried to break into that power, the TP along with the DO broke free. Also, the TP may signify the DO's power over the land.

[FarShainMael]

I think there may be some confusion here. I was talking about the True Source, not the True Power (TP).

[RandA lThor]

Disregard everything that I said before.

[Greger]

I think it is safe to say that the 4th Age will be channeling enabled. I don't think you could totally take away one side of the One Power without taking away the other. They both come from the same Source.

 

Also, Avi's visions are not exactly how things will go after the resealing of the prison. It is one possibility of thousands that was meant to instruct Avi on what direction to take the Aiel post-Last Battle. By showing her the Aiel without honor and without purpose, it showed Avi that she needed to find a new purpose for the Aiel now the Last Battle was done

 

I'm not so sure about not being able to take away one side of the OP since only saidin was tainted.

 

Logically, it would, because there are ages when Channelling is forgotten, but it is impossible in terms of plot, too much of the series relies on the OP.

 

It would mean that, effectively, Egwene's arc was all for nothing post-TG.

 

The Seanchan arc would be for nothing.

 

The Black Tower would be for nothing. And the co-operation between the sexes would be for nothing.

 

Most of the characters would have a death sentence if the OP disappeared. (Depression and such over the loss of the OP)

 

Besides, it would be pretty impossible to only remove one half, as Sam said. It would have to be both sides of the OP.

Well firstly I'm not sure how the seanchan arc would be for nothing. And secondly why would a writer not include story arcs if they would turn out to be in vain? I mean the black tower has its purpose even if saidin disappears and leaving it out just because the planned ending makes it all in vain would be stupid IMO. All I'm saying is that if certain story arcs seems to be in vain because of what happens in the last book maybe it's not so bad since the story arc in itself is a natural development in the WoT world. Hmm I'm not so sure if my message is recieved hehe difficult to explain what I mean!

 

It is possible that OP usage could be naturally culled out of humanity in a future age; it was very close in this age after all.

 

Well I believe that humanity learns of their previously mistake and makes sure that the ability to channel isn't culled out. The 'breeding' between male and female channelers will most likely increase now that the taint is gone and the reds mission to bond male channelers.

 

Or it may happen that something shields humanity at large from the True Source. A sort of planet-wide Guardian à la Far Madding. Not sure what form that would take or how it would be disabled to allow channelling in tha AoL and afterwards, though.

 

This could be it. The only question is why they would want to do this in the coming ages, since I'm assuming these kind of ter'angreals are made by humans. Perhaps people are too powerful and fears the true source similar to the fear of balefire?

[rand4747]

I always thought that chennling gradually vanished in Aviendahs viewing because after the rise of technology Seanchan found no use for channelers and exterminated them all. Especially if widespread knowledge of the suldam came out. After a while they stopped attacking the Aiel with channelers, just soldiers with the shocklances and all.

[FarShainMael]

Disregard everything that I said before.

 

Worry not!

[Kaznen]

The idea of using the OP (both sides) to seal away the DO has occureed to me.

[RandA lThor]

wouldn't both sides be tainted then? I think Rand should use the TP against him.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Both sides would indeed be tainted, unless he came up with a whole new method.

 

The use of the TP is flawed. It IS the DO. How can you use the DO to create a buffer between you and the DO? Besides, while using the TP, how could he use saidin and saidar to weave the actual Seals?

 

My theory, is Rand will use himself as the Buffer. He will make the sacrifice by holding off the DO with his own being while the Seals are woven.

 

It agrees with prophecy. "his blood on the rocks of Shayol Ghul" "His blood to wash away the Shadow" "his blood brings salvation" etc...

[RandA lThor]

However, it is debatable whether the DO can use the TP. It may be a power source that comes from him, but he may not be able to do anything to it other than grant it or take it away. Also, it would be ironic to be bonded by his own source.

[rand4747]

Nynaeve might know how to do the buffer because of what she saw in Rand's head when trying to heal him of madness. Well get an idea anyway.

[RandA lThor]

I see what you're saying. That buffer was against the madness inside him, which came from the taint, which came from the DO. if we can put something that protects from the DO's taints, we can put something in between. however, the VoG might be because he was linked to the Dragon and because he is a part of the Pattern that keeps reoccurring, he may need that and it is not something that can be replicated.

[b3arz3rg3r]

On topic:

There is no way one half of the One Power could disappear without the other. Saidin and Saidar are always in balance, if they weren't I doubt the Pattern could continue to exist.

[rand4747]

I see what you're saying. That buffer was against the madness inside him, which came from the taint, which came from the DO. if we can put something that protects from the DO's taints, we can put something in between. however, the VoG might be because he was linked to the Dragon and because he is a part of the Pattern that keeps reoccurring, he may need that and it is not something that can be replicated.

 

So perhaps he can become the buffer himself somehow.

[RandA lThor]

But only his mind is coated like that, I don't see how his mind can act like a buffer.

[bsmnt23]

It's a long shot and I dont actualy subscribe to it as a major possibility for post-Tarmon Gaidon, but I'll put it out there just the same. What if the exestential battle against the Dark One, as well as the temporal battle against the hoards of shadowspawn simply use up enough of the Power to turn the Wheel that those who can channel simply...cant. Like a flow of water diverted to turn too many waterwheels, the mamimum amount is simply not enough anymore to maintain. RJ has said before that the source is like the universe both infinite and finite simutainiusly, that it could never be fully used up, but it could be lessened. I dont know, is it possible?

[fikkie77]

The One Power isn't used up, isn't consumated, it's channeled. It's not like in Mistborn, where one burns a metal and has supernatural powers until it's used up. The One Power it's channeled; you use it do what you want, but the One Power won't lessen a bit because of it. So, it can't be that you use too many of it up, so that the Wheel of Time can't turn anymore.

[bsmnt23]

The One Power isn't used up, isn't consumated, it's channeled. It's not like in Mistborn, where one burns a metal and has supernatural powers until it's used up. The One Power it's channeled; you use it do what you want, but the One Power won't lessen a bit because of it. So, it can't be that you use too many of it up, so that the Wheel of Time can't turn anymore.

 

Gaah! Sanderson always seems to create a magic system like he is designing a Magic:the Gathering handbook, and I cant stand it. But neither can I find RJs musing on the nature of the One Power that I remember reading that says the Power can be used up. There are just too many years of every fanboy and girl putting every word out of the man under the microscope to track down one answer from years ago. Doesnt matter.

[fikkie77]

You might get availability problems if all channelers were to use very strong sa'angreal