The Significance of Graendal

[Water_Weaver]

I have always thought that there was something significant regarding Graendal for several reasons. The first is that she is one of the forsaken with the most POVs and has survived what very well could have been a plausible death only to subsequently fail in killing Perrin. The second is that, according to the Big White Book, her declaration of having joined the Shadow is what signalled the start of the War of the Shadow. Finally, Graendal is the second forsaken to swear allegiance to the Dark One after Ishamael. This all seems far too coincidental to me and I believe that Graendal may yet have a major role to play in a Memory of Light. More specifically, that she is going to kill a prominent character or characters at some point and that the Midnight Tower that rises in Egwene's dream is actually Graendal following her failure to kill Perrin.

 

So if Graendal is still in action during a Memory of Light, who do you think she is most likely to do in?

[Barid Bel Medar]

I know what you are saying about Graendal seeming important. But to be honest, I don't think she will play such a big role. I think her survival is just a product of her nature. She is naturally a cautious person and a very good planner. Sammael was just as important, until he died. Now I know that sounds silly, because that is the point you are making, Graendal didn't die. But Sammael died not because he was less important than Graendal, but because it was consistent with his nature. He was bold, hot headed and reckless, not to mention he was pretty much done for, he ruled openly (at least openly to Rand) it was inevitable he was going to die before Graendal, who makes a point of being very careful.

 

Not that I am saying she will waste away into obscurity, indeed it is very possible she will kill someone, my bet would be either Nynaeve or Min, both she wants dead. Min to cause Rand pain, Nynaeve because she recognizes her as dangerous when she unravels compulsion.

 

But I don't think she will be among the main Forsaken.

 

The major players for the Shadow will most likely be Moridin, Demandred and Lanfear.

[FarShainMael]

I'd laugh if Graendal kills Demandred. (Don't think that will happen, though.)

[TheBeerPatriot]

I still think Graendal is a force to be reckoned with for AMOL. My bet is she kills either Min or Faile, thus causing pain to Rand or Perrin. After her failure with Perrin in TOM, she will feel like she has something to prove.

[FarShainMael]

Probably she'll kill Min. After all, LTT added Min to Rand's 'list' (TGS29). And I think it's Grae that muses about killing Rand's 'dark-haired lover' in ToM Prologue. (Don't have the book nearby, sorry.)

[Graendals favourite]

I think Graendal will do much in aMoL. She'll put all her resources into action. She'll strike at everyone but the ta'veren, she expects that to be futile. She herself will not necessarily take part in the fight, unless perhaps to destabilise some light-factionor two, which would be easy for her.

[Water_Weaver]

Another little bit of foreshadowing that has also had me wondering about Graendal's role is her murder of Yanet, someone close to Lews Therin, during the Age of Legends. I originally thought that Yanet might be some sort of parallel to Perrin but then I realized that perhaps the name is meant to be pronounced "Janet" implying that Graendal killed a woman close to Lews Therin. Again, Robert Jordan greatly enjoyed his foreshadowing and the fact that Brandon included it in Towers of Midnight means that this fact must have some significance in my mind.

 

 

Water

[Barid Bel Medar]

Hmmm, nice points. I your suggestion Water.

 

Indeed, it does seem like this Yanet was important. Supposedly Lews Therin hated Graendal, which is a pretty strong emotion for just one of the Chosen. No mention of Lews Therin actually hating any of the others, obviously as a DF they were to be despised, but I read it as a personal hatred of Graendal.

 

It makes sense that Min would be killed, but I don't see when she will get the chance.

 

Min will be alive when Rand "dies" at least once, as per the unfinished Cover Art. She also needs to figure out Callandor and how to seal the DO away with her studies (although I suppose that isn't necessary, it is shaping up to be that way)

 

Also, Graendal was forbidden to go after Rand/Min. SH said the task had been given to another.

 

I think an important thing to remember is that Graendal will most likely not have any of her comforts and resources now. She has been punished by SH and the DO. Moggy and Lanfear paid a heavy price for failure. Mind-trapped. It is a distinct possibility that Graendal will also be mind-trapped as well. She will certainly not be free to plan. Moridin and Shaidar Haran have put their foot down. No more messing around for Graendal.

 

Which I suppose you could say would make her even more dangerous, forced into action she would otherwise not chose to be involved in.

 

Just thinking on Yanet, I think it will be possible she will kill Lan or Nynaeve. The Shadow will certainly not leave him be after he has made such a show, an invasion of the Blight certainly would not be tolerated. Sending one of the Forsaken seems likely. Moridin likely has plans for her, since he forbade her from going after Rand, killing Lan would be a huge blow to the Light.

 

And she already knows about Nynaeve and wants her dead, it would hurt Rand but not be going after him, like MIn would (since she is always around him) and it fits in with Yanet. Graendal did not turn until the WoS, or it began when she turned. Lews Therin was most likely already married to Ilyena at this point, so it makes sense that Yanet was a close friend, more like Nynaeve than Min if we are looking at the Forshadowing. Of course, I suppose she could have been an ex, or he was having an affair will her or something, but it is more likely she was like Nynaeve is to Rand.

 

Personally I don't really think she will kill anyone important, more likely to cause a bit of chaos subverting people like she did in the War of Shadow, but those two seem like most likely.

 

 

Edit: @FSM heh, are you trying to make me sad It would be funny though, killing yet ANOTHER Forsaken, and Demandred at that (who apparently has some awesome stuff to do in aMoL) I think it more likely she would kill Moggy.

 

She has a habit of killing the more annoying and silly Forsaken. Asmodean and Balthamael. Moggy would fit into it, as most of the Chosen think of her as a "lesser" Chosen.

 

3 Forsaken kills, heh, Rand might give her a medal instead of balefiring her again.

[FarShainMael]

@bbm: no, I was being tongue-in-cheek

[Mr Hindley]

I've always been a fan of Graendal as a character (not that I'd necessarily want to go on holiday with her or anything..!) But alas, I suspect she won't be doing much in aMoL. There's just so much else that has to happen, and BS has, as I recall, said that Demandred is the main player for the Dark now. Between him, Moridin, and Lanfear, I don't think that leaves much room for Graendal or Moggy to get up to much other than to die at an appropriate moment - possibly through the lame way of them just dying at the same time as Moridin through the mindtraps. A bit of a waste of two good characters, if it comes to that. I'm also guessing that the 'Yanet' thing was just a throwaway line added in by BS to give Graendal reason to feel particularly threatened by Rand.

 

And as for killing an important character, or going in all guns blazing to take out Lan - the Forsaken haven't done anything like that in the last 12 books (which is a whole separate discussion as to why the hell not), I doubt they're going to start now.

 

There is the whole minor subplot of Graendal being tasked with causing Rand pain, which went precisely nowhere, which might make you think that that is still going to play out, but I think that was just either a deliberate misdirection or, sadly, poorly constructed plotting.

 

Two things give me hope that she might get to do something interesting - one is the mention by BS of a scene where one Forsaken is wearing the appearance of another. The other is just a hunch on my part that one Forsaken will make it out of the Last Battle discreetly alive, as a 'loose thread'. Graendal, or even more likely, Moggy, seem the best candidates for either or both of those scenarios. Graendal being 'officially dead' perhaps makes her the best candidate to sneak quietly off the battlefield with no-one from the Light side looking for her...

[Water_Weaver]

Two things give me hope that she might get to do something interesting - one is the mention by BS of a scene where one Forsaken is wearing the appearance of another. The other is just a hunch on my part that one Forsaken will make it out of the Last Battle discreetly alive, as a 'loose thread'. Graendal, or even more likely, Moggy, seem the best candidates for either or both of those scenarios. Graendal being 'officially dead' perhaps makes her the best candidate to sneak quietly off the battlefield with no-one from the Light side looking for her...

 

My theory in regard to who is posing as who is that Graendal is "posing" as Mesaana and that she is currently leading the Black Ajah. One theory I have is that this is actually a forced wearing of appearance by Moridin as punishment and that it is not something Graendal choose. I do agree that one of the forsaken is likely to sruvive and that the most likely candidate for this is Graendal due to her ability to survive at all costs, including betraying the Shadow if need be. (Ex. She was in the process of fleeing to a portal stone world when SH caught her in the middle of fleeing).

 

Speaking of which I would like other's views on that point. Did Moridin and Shaidar Haran know that Graendal was in the process of fleeing? I personally think no as the Dark One is not omnipotent.

 

Water

[Sharaman]

The GLoD and by extension, SH, can find one of his Chosen in most places. Given SH's ability to travel through shadows, he can have a chat with one His servants whenever He wants.

Graendal hoped that she could escape His influence in a portal-world.

[RandA lThor]

I think that Granedal, after having the SH at her, will just look for revenge. The three main people responsible for this are Perrin, Faile, and Galad. This would definitely make sense for someone like Graendal if she doesn't get her way.

[FanoLan]

Voted other, but that's misleading in a way. Don't think she will kill anyone, ever again. That shanty been wore down and ain't got no more shaken for the peoples.

 

Graendal is dead, dead I tell you. Ding dong the witch is dead. SH's memories of ol' Granny, are memories because she's been toasted; limited number of Chosen notwithstanding.

[OptimusPrime]

I think shes going to kill Alanna to get at Rand through the bond. I think Moiraine will either foil the plan by having the bond passed to her (but Graendal still kills Alanna) OR that Alanna will die while the bond is intact, and Moiraines role is to deal with Rand when he goes crazy and dark again, which would be much worse this time than in TGS.