Sanderson Moments

[Mr Hindley]

I started my post being a Sanderson defender:

 

Between Siuan and Bryne, as written by Sanderson, there is a sort of smarmy cameraderie which turns 2 long and well established characters into flat cardboard cut-out bit players whose existence in the book is solely for the purpose of tying up loose ends. If that.

Funnily enough, one of my favourite things about the last two books is that Sanderson actually took some time to revisit some of the pairings that had been grossly neglected (Gareth/Siuan, Morgase/Tallanvor) and breathed new life into them. I'd never liked the Gareth/Siuan pairing, it was one of the worst 'bam! we're in love' pairings, but it became believable to me in tGS, and Morgase/Tallanvor, who had almost fallen off the face of the planet, became a functioning storyline again, which meant that the wrap-up of that storyline mattered, rather than just being something to be swept up and dropped in the bin.

 

 

I really didn't get the scene where he talks about boots.

I liked that one, too!

 

And I can forgive the odd chronology between tGS and ToM, because I thought I gave a great thematic arc to tGS.

 

 

But now I'm starting to change my mind...

 

 

when characters and plots he has less interest in are being left by the wayside [his exact words were that with some he simply took them and slammed them on the table], then there is room for him to be putting in more effort.

That's the first time I've heard that quote, about 'slamming on the table' - that is VERY worrying! And would explain some of the clunkier resolutions like the Borderland Armies. 'We came here because of some random prophecy that makes no sense, and sat here for 5 books. Oh, OK, you're the Dragon. We'll go home now.' It would be interesting to collect together a list of what plot strands we think can be filed under 'just got slammed on the table'.

 

 

Which is actually somewhat odd--one of the questions, regarding Carlinya and the raven viewing, was the headliners for one of my major criticisims--that continuity errors that were being applied quick bandages and thereafter shrugged off (the Dream Battle was another

And that's almost as bad - Carlinya's death jumped right out at me as 'hey, how can that have happened? What about the viewing?!?' I'd heard that Sanderson had responded with a 'RAFO' implying there'd be some subsequent answers, but it sounds like that's not the case? SOMEONE on the team should have spotted that problem before release - hundreds of AS to choose from and he chose almost the only one with a specific viewing..!

 

What was the problem with the Dream Battle, btw? Generally I quite liked that scene!

[Luckers]

What was the problem with the Dream Battle, btw? Generally I quite liked that scene!

 

With the exception of Egwene, Mesaana and the Wise Ones, they were all using the dream ter'angreal, and yet channeling with normal strength and appearing completely solid.

 

With such ter'angreal they should have been misty, and barely able to channel. The correction in the re-writes included the lines that Elayne and Mesaana had fixed the ter'angreal. I understand that short of a complete re-write that that was the best they could do, but I'm still dirty about it.

[sleepinghour]

What was the problem with the Dream Battle, btw? Generally I quite liked that scene!

 

There were several continuity issues involving the dream ter'angreal, one being that Elayne had the original from Verin and gave it to Aviendha in KoD. In TGS, the Sitters were said to have it until it was stolen by Sheriam. This was later corrected in the ebook edition.

 

KoD: Placing the antler-hilted dagger in the chest, she picked up the turtle, and then, impulsively, snatched up the twisted stone dream ring, all red and blue and brown. [...] “These are for you,” Elayne said, pressing the ring and the brooch into her sister’s hand. “Not as gifts, I’m afraid. The White Tower will want them back. But to use as you need.”

 

TGS: She would have liked to have the original ring, but that was carefully kept by the Sitters.

 

TGS: Egwene clenched her teeth, thinking of Sheriam's final spilled confessions. The theft of the ter'angreal had been far from the most shocking tidbit she'd mentioned. Elayne would be livid; the original ring had been among those stolen, and Egwene doubted that Siuan's hidden copy would be useful as a template. It was already flawed; copies of it would likely be more imperfect."

 

TGS ebook: Egwene clenched her teeth, thinking of Sheriam’s final spilled confessions. The theft of the ter’angreal had been far from the most shocking tidbit she’d mentioned. Elayne would be livid; she had made all of the copies that were stolen. While none of her copies worked as well as the original, they worked well enough. She would not be happy that they were in the hands of a Forsaken.

 

Another error was that Elayne's copies were supposed to be flawed and should have left the Black Ajah barely able to channel, like Elayne in LoC. This was also changed in the ebook edition, though I can't find any part that explains why the Black sisters were able to channel so strongly, just that Egwene and Nynaeve found it strange.

 

LoC: That was the original ring hanging around Siuan’s neck; she appeared as solid as any of the buildings. To herself, Elayne looked just as solid, but she knew that to the others she seemed slightly misty, like Nynaeve and Leane. You almost thought you might see the moonlight through them. That was what using a copy did. She could sense the True Source, but as she was, saidar felt tenuous; if she tried to channel, that would be meager too. With the ring Siuan wore, it would not be so, but that was the price of having secrets someone else knew and you did not dare have exposed.

 

ToM: "Fire," Morvrin said, shivering. "Blasting through the walls. Women channeling, several with incredible Power." [...]

"It's black as a tomb up there," Nynaeve whispered. "I think they made it that way. Siuan and Leane are all right; I saw them a little bit ago, sticking together. Just before that, I managed to hit Notori with a blast of fire. She's dead."

"Good. The Black Ajah stole nineteen ter'angreal. That might give us an estimate of how many Black Ajah we have to contend with."

 

ToM ebook: "It's black as a tomb up there," Nynaeve whispered. "I think they made it that way. They shouldn't be able to channel this well with those imperfect copies. Siuan and Leane are all right; I saw them a little bit ago, sticking together. Just before that, I managed to hit Notori with a blast of fire. She's dead."

"Good. The Black Ajah stole nineteen ter'angreal. That might give us an estimate of how many Black Ajah we have to contend with. Or since they're able to channel so strongly, perhaps not."

 

Although it bothered me as I was reading ToM, I don't see it as a huge issue (RJ also made continuity mistakes that had to be corrected in later editions), though it's a bit annoying that you have to buy the ebook for the T'A'R battle to make any sense. As for Carlinya, I can accept that the drawing of a raven was meant to symbolize her being killed by Darkfriends and had nothing to do with the Seanchan tattoos, but it would be interesting to know if this is what RJ always intended or Brandon simply forgot about the viewing/decided this could be a way to fulfill it.

[Mr Hindley]

Thanks - I thought I was quite good about keeping track of things, but I'd long since lost track of where the original ended up, and had forgotten about the weaker copies. Once again, I'm in awe of some of the people on these boards!

 

Those 'sticking plasters' in the eBooks do feel incredibly clunky (although as you say, nothing else really that they can do at this stage.) I wouldn't blame Sanderson for not having all this fresh in his head, but this is the kind of thing I'd have thought Team Jordan would pick up on. Hmmm. Are there any more corrections like these, or a thread that lists them? It's really interesting, in a slightly depressing way!

[sleepinghour]

Are there any more corrections like these, or a thread that lists them? It's really interesting, in a slightly depressing way!

 

Both Dragonmount and Theoryland had threads about that after ToM came out, but I don't have the links at hand. From memory, the main continuity issues were:

 

* The dream ter'angreal.

* Carlinya's death (some felt this did not explain Min's viewing of a raven).

* Perrin knowing nothing about the Cleansing despite having already found out in CoT and KoD.

* Romanda's statement in TGS that the rebel delegation sent to the BT was suspiciously silent when Nynaeve easily reached Myrelle in ToM. This conversation took place before the Tower was united, so Romanda could only have been talking about the rebel delegation, not the Reds. Egwene also proceeded to think of Myrelle and the others.

 

"Mother," Romanda said, "I have made the inquires you requested. There has been no contact with those sent to the Black Tower. Not a whisper."

"Does this strike you as odd?" Egwene asked.

"Yes, Mother. With Traveling they should have been there and back by now. They should have at least sent word. This silence is disturbing."

Disturbing indeed. Even worse, that delegation contained Nisao, Myrelle, Faolain and Theodrin. Each of the women had sworn fealty to Egwene. An unsettling coincidence.

 

* Sulin showing up at Rand's side, then with Perrin.

* Timeline issues involving Mat that I myself found confusing, so can't explain them here. I think someone figured out that the rumors he heard about the flying monsters attacking the Tower and the Amyrlin fighting the Last Battle in Rand's place actually happened before the Seanchan raid. And also something about the number of days he waited after Verin gave him the letter.

 

There were also many smaller mistakes like Brandon describing Suana as both plump and skinny, and other characters looking different from RJ's descriptions (dark-haired Alliandre became a blonde, etc). So I would say that although none of the issues were all that significant, there were more of them than there should have been with Team Jordan and several beta readers in place.

[OptimusPrime]

]I disagree. If he is not satisfied with the quality of the work, if he doesn't think it is yet good enough, he shouldn't publish.

 

I agree although I think you are assuming he has more control of the situation than he does. If Brandon thought it wasnt good enough, but Hariet and the Beta readers and whoever else thought it was, they would just chalk it off as situational nerves. i do not think for a second he has a say in when its published. He can put forward his thoughts-like "I dont think it'll be up to scratch by the release date" which might then lead to "how long dya think it'll take"-but I do not think he is not a decision maker. I doubt he has the power to choose to not publish it, after all, its not even his book.

 

He has a deadline, and I can imagine Tor having being very stern when it came to TGS and ToM.

[Charlz Guybon]

 

I have offered the possibility that down the line when this has all cooled off a little, somebody new might be chosen to rewrite the 3 Sanderson books and do them properly. If not in a Jordan style, then at least in a manner in which the identity of the characters and the general thrust of the series' spirit can be revived.

This is a pipe dream, it's never going to happen. What we've gotten is far better than I ever expected. Any other writer would have simply written a single book and a left it at that. Only a big personal fan of Jordan like Sanderson would have taken 3-4 years out of their career to write a million words.

[Charlz Guybon]

 

Although it bothered me as I was reading ToM, I don't see it as a huge issue (RJ also made continuity mistakes that had to be corrected in later editions), though it's a bit annoying that you have to buy the ebook for the T'A'R battle to make any sense. As for Carlinya, I can accept that the drawing of a raven was meant to symbolize her being killed by Darkfriends and had nothing to do with the Seanchan tattoos, but it would be interesting to know if this is what RJ always intended or Brandon simply forgot about the viewing/decided this could be a way to fulfill it.

Personally I would like to see some of Min's viewings flat out be wrong in the last book do to the pattern being screwed up the Dark One.

[fikkie77]

What was the problem with the Dream Battle, btw? Generally I quite liked that scene!

 

There were several continuity issues involving the dream ter'angreal, one being that Elayne had the original from Verin and gave it to Aviendha in KoD. In TGS, the Sitters were said to have it until it was stolen by Sheriam. This was later corrected in the ebook edition.

 

KoD: Placing the antler-hilted dagger in the chest, she picked up the turtle, and then, impulsively, snatched up the twisted stone dream ring, all red and blue and brown. [...] “These are for you,” Elayne said, pressing the ring and the brooch into her sister’s hand. “Not as gifts, I’m afraid. The White Tower will want them back. But to use as you need.”

 

TGS: She would have liked to have the original ring, but that was carefully kept by the Sitters.

 

TGS: Egwene clenched her teeth, thinking of Sheriam's final spilled confessions. The theft of the ter'angreal had been far from the most shocking tidbit she'd mentioned. Elayne would be livid; the original ring had been among those stolen, and Egwene doubted that Siuan's hidden copy would be useful as a template. It was already flawed; copies of it would likely be more imperfect."

 

TGS ebook: Egwene clenched her teeth, thinking of Sheriam’s final spilled confessions. The theft of the ter’angreal had been far from the most shocking tidbit she’d mentioned. Elayne would be livid; she had made all of the copies that were stolen. While none of her copies worked as well as the original, they worked well enough. She would not be happy that they were in the hands of a Forsaken.

 

Another error was that Elayne's copies were supposed to be flawed and should have left the Black Ajah barely able to channel, like Elayne in LoC. This was also changed in the ebook edition, though I can't find any part that explains why the Black sisters were able to channel so strongly, just that Egwene and Nynaeve found it strange.

 

LoC: That was the original ring hanging around Siuan’s neck; she appeared as solid as any of the buildings. To herself, Elayne looked just as solid, but she knew that to the others she seemed slightly misty, like Nynaeve and Leane. You almost thought you might see the moonlight through them. That was what using a copy did. She could sense the True Source, but as she was, saidar felt tenuous; if she tried to channel, that would be meager too. With the ring Siuan wore, it would not be so, but that was the price of having secrets someone else knew and you did not dare have exposed.

 

ToM: "Fire," Morvrin said, shivering. "Blasting through the walls. Women channeling, several with incredible Power." [...]

"It's black as a tomb up there," Nynaeve whispered. "I think they made it that way. Siuan and Leane are all right; I saw them a little bit ago, sticking together. Just before that, I managed to hit Notori with a blast of fire. She's dead."

"Good. The Black Ajah stole nineteen ter'angreal. That might give us an estimate of how many Black Ajah we have to contend with."

 

ToM ebook: "It's black as a tomb up there," Nynaeve whispered. "I think they made it that way. They shouldn't be able to channel this well with those imperfect copies. Siuan and Leane are all right; I saw them a little bit ago, sticking together. Just before that, I managed to hit Notori with a blast of fire. She's dead."

"Good. The Black Ajah stole nineteen ter'angreal. That might give us an estimate of how many Black Ajah we have to contend with. Or since they're able to channel so strongly, perhaps not."

 

Although it bothered me as I was reading ToM, I don't see it as a huge issue (RJ also made continuity mistakes that had to be corrected in later editions), though it's a bit annoying that you have to buy the ebook for the T'A'R battle to make any sense. As for Carlinya, I can accept that the drawing of a raven was meant to symbolize her being killed by Darkfriends and had nothing to do with the Seanchan tattoos, but it would be interesting to know if this is what RJ always intended or Brandon simply forgot about the viewing/decided this could be a way to fulfill it.

The fact that they could channel so strongly in TAR with supposedly flawed ter'angreal indicates that Mesaana taught them how to enter TAR in the flesh.

[sleepinghour]

Personally I would like to see some of Min's viewings flat out be wrong in the last book do to the pattern being screwed up the Dark One.

 

Or Brandon could have Silviana (former Mistress of Novices and administrator of spankings) mention in passing that Alviarin had a raven tattoo in a hidden location after a drunken night partying with Galina. While we haven't seen many people with tattoos in the Westlands, Mangin was hanged for killing a man with a dragon tattoo, so they do exist.

 

As for the dream ter'angreal, I think it would have been better to explain that by saying the Black Ajah were there in the flesh, like Rand and Rahvin in TFoH. That's less far-fetched than Mesaana having the ability to repair Elayne's dream ter'angreal.

 

The silence from the rebel delegation could perhaps be attributed to embarrassment that they hadn't made any progress and were still sitting like ducks in a row outside the Black Tower. It's not a perfect solution, but better than nothing.

 

And of course, Sulin has a twin sister named Tulin who is too nice to correct people and induce toh when they call her Sulin.

[fikkie77]

What was the problem with the Dream Battle, btw? Generally I quite liked that scene!

 

With the exception of Egwene, Mesaana and the Wise Ones, they were all using the dream ter'angreal, and yet channeling with normal strength and appearing completely solid.

 

With such ter'angreal they should have been misty, and barely able to channel. The correction in the re-writes included the lines that Elayne and Mesaana had fixed the ter'angreal. I understand that short of a complete re-write that that was the best they could do, but I'm still dirty about it.

I repeat my previous comment: I think some BA were there in the flesh. Mesaana let them use the ter; angreal to get used to TAR and then taught the stronger ones how to enter in the flesh.

[sleepinghour]

The fact that they could channel so strongly in TAR with supposedly flawed ter'angreal indicates that Mesaana taught them how to enter TAR in the flesh.

 

I had the same thought, but it's pretty clear that this is not what was originally intended since Team Jordan later tried to patch things up, and it still doesn't explain how Nynaeve also could channel strongly when the original ring was with Aviendha. Nynaeve "hit Notori with a blast of fire," which would require more Power than a flawed copy would allow, and we know she needs a ter'angreal to enter T'A'R.

[Suttree]

The fact that they could channel so strongly in TAR with supposedly flawed ter'angreal indicates that Mesaana taught them how to enter TAR in the flesh.

 

Nope, and that most certainly isn't the reason given. It was just added that the terangreal were fixed in re-writes.

[Agitel]

These are things that should have been caught by Team Jordan and any beta readers in addition to Sanderson. It is a lot to keep track of, depending especially on what notes were left behind. That's not to excuse them, I think a longer editing process would have been appropriate for all of these books.

 

As for what happened with Carlinya, I have to wonder if even Jordan knew when he wrote it. Apparently when it came to Asmodean's death he left a note saying something along the lines of "explain this somehow". Ravens are used as eyes of the Dark One, so I'm not dissatisfied by the explanation.

[Suttree]

Apparently when it came to Asmodean's death he left a note saying something along the lines of "explain this somehow".

 

What RJ wrote was "this is right" in relation to the Sherlock post below...

 

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/4975913/1/Sherlock_Holmes_Examines_the_Death_of_Asmodean

[Luckers]

What was the problem with the Dream Battle, btw? Generally I quite liked that scene!

 

With the exception of Egwene, Mesaana and the Wise Ones, they were all using the dream ter'angreal, and yet channeling with normal strength and appearing completely solid.

 

With such ter'angreal they should have been misty, and barely able to channel. The correction in the re-writes included the lines that Elayne and Mesaana had fixed the ter'angreal. I understand that short of a complete re-write that that was the best they could do, but I'm still dirty about it.

I repeat my previous comment: I think some BA were there in the flesh. Mesaana let them use the ter; angreal to get used to TAR and then taught the stronger ones how to enter in the flesh.

 

Nope. Maria and I discussed this. It was a mistake pure and simple. They were supposed to be using the dream ter'angreal, just the same as the non-dreamwalkers of the Light.

 

Though my statement of the correction was not quite right--the correction Maria added was simply to throw in doubt, so maybe in the fixed version they are in the flesh, though they actually display none of the characteristics. But then again, Brandon blurred the line with Perrin in TofM anyway, so...

 

Maybe.

 

Anyway here's the list of the changes made to the Dream Battle. It's clear frontline triage. Bandaging so we can move on. But again I sympathise with Maria as she didn't exactly have any other choice. Re-writing the book is out of the question.

 

Chapter 36, page 562, 8th para, lines 3-4

 

At present reads: Egwene hadn’t given them the ter’angreal that let one enter without needing to channel, of course.

 

Should read: Egwene hadn’t given them the ter’angreal Elayne had finally perfected that let one enter without needing to channel, of course.

 

Chapter 37, page 578, last para, entire

 

At present reads: “It’s black as a tomb up there,” Nynaeve whispered. “I think they made it that way. Siuan and Leane are all right; I saw them a little bit ago, sticking together. Just before that, I managed to hit Notori with a blast of fire. She’s dead.”

 

Should read: “It’s black as a tomb up there,” Nynaeve whispered. “I think they made it that way. They shouldn't be able to channel this

well with those imperfect copies. Siuan and Leane are all right; I saw them a little bit ago, sticking together. Just before that, I managed to hit Notori with a blast of fire. She’s dead.”

 

Chapter 37, page 579, 1st para,

 

At present reads: Good. The Black Ajah stole nineteen ter’angreal. That might give us an estimate of how many Black Ajah we have to

contend with.” She, Siuan, Nynaeve, Leane and the three Wise Ones were outnumbered— but the Black Ajah didn’t seem to have much experience

with Tel’aran’rhiod.

 

Should read: “Good. The Black Ajah stole nineteen ter’angreal. That might give us an estimate of how many Black Ajah we have to contend

with. Or since they're able to channel so strongly, perhaps not.” She, Siuan, Nynaeve, Leane and the three Wise Ones were outnumbered— but

the Black Ajah didn’t seem to have much experience with Tel’aran’rhiod.

 

 

These are things that should have been caught by Team Jordan and any beta readers in addition to Sanderson. It is a lot to keep track of, depending especially on what notes were left behind. That's not to excuse them, I think a longer editing process would have been appropriate for all of these books.

 

They had two weeks. That DOES excuse them. The one exception being Harriet who could demand more time--but given she's done just that for aMoL, I'm more or less content.

 

That being said Branon too should have caught these things. And he said as much to me. I'd just feel more comfortable if as a result I saw the same intention for a full review process as Harriet. I havn't really, not in the sense that he feels he needs more time.

 

As for what happened with Carlinya, I have to wonder if even Jordan knew when he wrote it. Apparently when it came to Asmodean's death he left a note saying something along the lines of "explain this somehow". Ravens are used as eyes of the Dark One, so I'm not dissatisfied by the explanation.

 

And again, my main concern here is not the possibility that Carlinya's 'stylized raven' viewing didn't have an explanation, its that Brandon was completely unaware that it was a point of contention and criticism. The point was about Brandon's understanding of fan perception of his work, not about the validicy of Carlinya's death in TofM.

[fikkie77]

The fact that they could channel so strongly in TAR with supposedly flawed ter'angreal indicates that Mesaana taught them how to enter TAR in the flesh.

 

I had the same thought, but it's pretty clear that this is not what was originally intended since Team Jordan later tried to patch things up, and it still doesn't explain how Nynaeve also could channel strongly when the original ring was with Aviendha. Nynaeve "hit Notori with a blast of fire," which would require more Power than a flawed copy would allow, and we know she needs a ter'angreal to enter T'A'R.

It doesn't say that that blast of fire was made with saidar. She has enough knowledge of TAR to create a blast of fire by willpower.

[RandA lThor]

That is a very good point. However, knowing Nyneave, she would have woven it. After all, when Perrin moved the balefire, Egwene was surprised and she was supposed to be the most adaptable of the wetlanders.

[fikkie77]

Chapter 36' date=' page 562, 8th para, lines 3-4

 

At present reads: Egwene hadn’t given them the ter’angreal that let one enter without needing to channel, of course.

 

Should read: Egwene hadn’t given them the ter’angreal Elayne had finally perfected that let one enter without needing to channel, of course.

 

Chapter 37, page 578, last para, entire

 

At present reads: “It’s black as a tomb up there,” Nynaeve whispered. “I think they made it that way. Siuan and Leane are all right; I saw them a little bit ago, sticking together. Just before that, I managed to hit Notori with a blast of fire. She’s dead.”

 

Should read: “It’s black as a tomb up there,” Nynaeve whispered. “I think they made it that way. They shouldn't be able to channel this

well with those imperfect copies. Siuan and Leane are all right; I saw them a little bit ago, sticking together. Just before that, I managed to hit Notori with a blast of fire. She’s dead.”

 

Chapter 37, page 579, 1st para,

 

At present reads: Good. The Black Ajah stole nineteen ter’angreal. That might give us an estimate of how many Black Ajah we have to

contend with.” She, Siuan, Nynaeve, Leane and the three Wise Ones were outnumbered— but the Black Ajah didn’t seem to have much experience

with Tel’aran’rhiod.

 

Should read: “Good. The Black Ajah stole nineteen ter’angreal. That might give us an estimate of how many Black Ajah we have to contend

with. [b']Or since they're able to channel so strongly, perhaps not.[/b]” She, Siuan, Nynaeve, Leane and the three Wise Ones were outnumbered— but

the Black Ajah didn’t seem to have much experience with Tel’aran’rhiod.

The bolded line seems to be a hint the BA has channelers there in the flesh. That's why they can channel so strongly and why their numbers might exceed nineteen.

[fikkie77]

That is a very good point. However, knowing Nyneave, she would have woven it. After all, when Perrin moved the balefire, Egwene was surprised and she was supposed to be the most adaptable of the wetlanders.

Egwene was surprised to see Perrin with such strength in TAR.

[sleepinghour]

As for what happened with Carlinya, I have to wonder if even Jordan knew when he wrote it. Apparently when it came to Asmodean's death he left a note saying something along the lines of "explain this somehow". Ravens are used as eyes of the Dark One, so I'm not dissatisfied by the explanation.

 

That explanation would have made more sense if Min had only seen a raven, but she did say she thought it was a tattoo, so it still seems like a bit of a stretch—particularly as raven tattoos (which signify being property of Seanchan royalty) were introduced roughly at the same time as the viewing. Most people expected Carlinya to end up as Seanchan property, so it was a bit anticlimactic to see her get killed off-screen by some random Black sister.

 

For an instant Min saw an image of a raven floating beside her [Carlinya's] dark hair; more a drawing of the bird than the bird itself. She thought it was a tattoo, but she did not know its meaning.

[Luckers]

Chapter 36' date=' page 562, 8th para, lines 3-4

 

At present reads: Egwene hadn’t given them the ter’angreal that let one enter without needing to channel, of course.

 

Should read: Egwene hadn’t given them the ter’angreal Elayne had finally perfected that let one enter without needing to channel, of course.

 

Chapter 37, page 578, last para, entire

 

At present reads: “It’s black as a tomb up there,” Nynaeve whispered. “I think they made it that way. Siuan and Leane are all right; I saw them a little bit ago, sticking together. Just before that, I managed to hit Notori with a blast of fire. She’s dead.”

 

Should read: “It’s black as a tomb up there,” Nynaeve whispered. “I think they made it that way. They shouldn't be able to channel this

well with those imperfect copies. Siuan and Leane are all right; I saw them a little bit ago, sticking together. Just before that, I managed to hit Notori with a blast of fire. She’s dead.”

 

Chapter 37, page 579, 1st para,

 

At present reads: Good. The Black Ajah stole nineteen ter’angreal. That might give us an estimate of how many Black Ajah we have to

contend with.” She, Siuan, Nynaeve, Leane and the three Wise Ones were outnumbered— but the Black Ajah didn’t seem to have much experience

with Tel’aran’rhiod.

 

Should read: “Good. The Black Ajah stole nineteen ter’angreal. That might give us an estimate of how many Black Ajah we have to contend

with. [b']Or since they're able to channel so strongly, perhaps not.[/b]” She, Siuan, Nynaeve, Leane and the three Wise Ones were outnumbered— but

the Black Ajah didn’t seem to have much experience with Tel’aran’rhiod.

The bolded line seems to be a hint the BA has channelers there in the flesh. That's why they can channel so strongly and why their numbers might exceed nineteen.

 

Yes, thats in the patched version. After Maria went back and tried to fix the the problem with the use of the ter'angreal. As I said above, it may well be that Maria selected them being there in the flesh to correct the initial error.

 

 

 

[Charlz Guybon]

 

 

And again, my main concern here is not the possibility that Carlinya's 'stylized raven' viewing didn't have an explanation, its that Brandon was completely unaware that it was a point of contention and criticism. The point was about Brandon's understanding of fan perception of his work, not about the validicy of Carlinya's death in TofM.

For every fan like you though, there are ten or even twenty complete morons and wackjobs out there. I completely understand why Brandon, or any author of such a popular series has kept himself inoculated from fan forums and the like. I think GRRM for one has let fan criticism get into his head for one.

[RandA lThor]

GRRM?

[Terez]

George R. R. Martin, who took over five years to write his latest book, which was supposedly already written when the previous book was released. Some think that the criticism for the previous book got to him and made it difficult for him to continue writing. Only the most hardcore fans liked it.