Will the Pattern allow for an absolute victory over the dark one?

[humanraindelay]

Will or can the Pattern allow for an absolute victory over the dark one? What if the Dark One is the thread that holds the rest of the Pattern together? Likewise then, Evil could never truely triumph over light. The very nature of a pattern is that it repeats itself over and over. Looking at it another way, if the Dark one is removed from the wheel of time, might the wheel break. When the wheel comes around again and the Dark One isn't there, what will fill the void.

 

 

An example of the pattern repeating itself is:

LT rambles to Rand that the female ais sedia refused to help him seal the bore forcing him to close it with an infirior seal. Egwene is already playing this role.

[Suttree]

An example of the pattern repeating itself is:

LT rambles to Rand that the female ais sedia refused to help him seal the bore forcing him to close it with an infirior seal. Egwene is already playing this role.

 

We know from RJ this is wrong. The plan was flawed and if female AS had been involved the only difference would have been Saidar tainted as well. This is why Rand says he can not attempt to do it the same way again.

 

Interview: Apr, 2003

Budapest Q&A

The result of this was that Lews Therin carried out his plan with only male Aes Sedai, so there were only male Aes Sedai channeling there, which was a lucky thing, because if there’d been women as well, then both saidin and saidar would have been tainted.

[Elan Tedronai]

Will or can the Pattern allow for an absolute victory over the dark one? What if the Dark One is the thread that holds the rest of the Pattern together? Likewise then, Evil could never truely triumph over light. The very nature of a pattern is that it repeats itself over and over. Looking at it another way, if the Dark one is removed from the wheel of time, might the wheel break. When the wheel comes around again and the Dark One isn't there, what will fill the void.

 

 

An example of the pattern repeating itself is:

LT rambles to Rand that the female ais sedia refused to help him seal the bore forcing him to close it with an infirior seal. Egwene is already playing this role.

 

 

LTT thought he could seal the bore. He forgot the number one rule. Humans cannot match the creator. He screwed up. if the women joined, the world would have been finished.

 

 

Humans cannot seal the bore. Only the pattern can.

[Alric]

Will or can the Pattern allow for an absolute victory over the dark one? What if the Dark One is the thread that holds the rest of the Pattern together? Likewise then, Evil could never truely triumph over light. The very nature of a pattern is that it repeats itself over and over. Looking at it another way, if the Dark one is removed from the wheel of time, might the wheel break. When the wheel comes around again and the Dark One isn't there, what will fill the void.

I don't think it would have to be a problem, it could simply mean that time would be non-cyclical. But I don't really believe RJ would allow that since he made such a point out of the fact that time is indeed cyclical and that the books tend to begin and end with that fact.

 

 

 

An example of the pattern repeating itself is:

LT rambles to Rand that the female ais sedia refused to help him seal the bore forcing him to close it with an infirior seal. Egwene is already playing this role.

I think that the Pattern repeating itself is only true for the corresponding Age in the next turning. And those are also very different close up. Similarities elsewhere is just coincidence, but as we know in our own time, history often repeats itself. I think that the events that repeat itself in Randland might be even fewer than most people expect. What do we really know? Can we be sure about anything repeating itself other than the Bore being opened and closed again before the next turning, and that there are champions of the Light and the Dark side?

[AlwaysLurking]

I don't see a requirement for the DO to be involved in the pattern at all, thus there is no reason to assume a permanent solution is impossible.

 

The Pattern, as created, did not include the DO. The Dragon is, at it simplest, the built-in correction mechanism for dealing with the infiltration of the DO into the world governed by the Pattern.

 

The permanent removal of the DO from ever accessing the Pattern, and thus the world created by it, will not change the Pattern. Ages will continue to pass, the wheel will not stop turning. There would just no longer be a need to activate the dragon mechanism to deal with the DO, nothing else changes as the DO is not part of the Pattern.

 

There may even be additional built in corrective mechanisms for dealing with a myriad of Pattern related issues that have never occurred and may never occur.

[kght22]

an ultimate defeat of the darkone would do pretty much the same thing that the darkone wants to do himself, it would break the wheel. it would likely be a very different breaking of the wheel, and might even be a good result, but it would still be exactly what the darkone wants.

 

(without the darkone in the next turning, it wouldn't be the next turning, it would just be a continuation, the wheel represents a cyclical universe, getting rid of such a fundamental element would pull the tread off the wheel and lay it down flat, make it linear.)

[michellem]

But if that is the case, that the DO needs to be there and be defeated every age... How does that coincide with our time, that is supposedly another Age? We have not heard of a spesific Dark One trying to break free of anything. And our Age has lasted for at least over 3000 years.

[LeeM.Erickson]

AlwaysLurking:

There may even be additional built in corrective mechanisms for dealing with a myriad of Pattern related issues that have never occurred and may never occur.

 

As to that, we have ta'veren and the Heroes of the Horn.

 

Misheru Sedai:

But if that is the case, that the DO needs to be there and be defeated every age... How does that coincide with our time, that is supposedly another Age? We have not heard of a spesific Dark One trying to break free of anything. And our Age has lasted for at least over 3000 years.

 

I don't think that's necessarily true. After all, the Dark One was totally unknown in the Age of Legends until the Bore was drilled. It's quite possible that he was totally unknown in the First Age, or in other Ages on the Wheel as well.

[Alric]

  Nope, not every Age, but every turning of the Wheel, which consists of 7 Ages. Herid Fel speculated that the DO would need to be trapped when the Age he was freed came around again (AoL = 2nd Age). That doesn't necessarily mean that Rand traps him now, since no one remembers the last time there was a 3rd Age. But considering the prophesies, and that the DO is likely to break free very soon, and that Rand indeed is the Dragon, it is likely that Rand will do it (if he is successful).  There isn't any confirmation that I know of that Ages need to be the same length, just that the current 3rd age is very likely to end at close to 3000 years (although the exact length is debatable, it could be 3500+ depending on when the AoL really ended).  

[master]

I hope that this age would be the one to shift the alignment of the wheel a bit. Becuase it would be a bit pointless to have a series based on saving the world if its happened an infinite amount of times in the past and an infinate amount of times in the future. Now if it details the final defeat of the dark one it would mean that it would be a more meaningful event than the other infinate amount of ages that the dark one was fought in, and as such would make more sense to use in a story.

[Cybertrolloc]

Remember, RJ didn't expect the series to take almost 30 years to write :) I think he said more than a few times that there's nothing particularly special about this 3rd age.

[Suttree]

Remember, RJ didn't expect the series to take almost 30 years to write :) I think he said more than a few times that there's nothing particularly special about this 3rd age.

 

Correct.

Q: At one point in the story we see Ishamael talking to Rand, and telling him that they have fought countless times in the past, but this is the final time. Is there anything about his Age that makes it special?

RJ: No . . . Every Age is repeated, there is nothing that makes this Age any different from any other turnings of the Wheel. The Wheel is endless.

 

Although Padan Fain is said to be something new to this age. Maybe he is the wildcard?

[bbarrett90]

I hope that this age would be the one to shift the alignment of the wheel a bit. Becuase it would be a bit pointless to have a series based on saving the world if its happened an infinite amount of times in the past and an infinate amount of times in the future. Now if it details the final defeat of the dark one it would mean that it would be a more meaningful event than the other infinate amount of ages that the dark one was fought in, and as such would make more sense to use in a story.

 

IMHO, what you just said is EXACTLY what makes this story such an amazing story. By telling the story of one age, one time period, RJ was able to include everything that ever was. He painted a picture of the entire timeline of a universe. The series isn't about saving the world, the series is about everything that happened before, and everything that happened after, described by talking about what's happening now.

 

The story RJ wrote is this:

The Wheel of Time turns, and Ages come and pass, leaving memories that become legend. Legend fades to myth, and even myth is long forgotten when the Age that gave it birth comes again.

The rest are just details of one Age, called the third Age by some, an Age yet to come, and an Age long past.

[Nightstrike]

Ishy/Moridin didn't think the Light could defeat the DO for good (=all turnings). He probably knows those things better than LTT, I'd think. They can't Balefire the DO, and the DO is much stronger than the entire Wheel. If the DO is anything like the Creator in strength, no mere person in the Wheel can match him/her/it. I don't see it as a possibility. Look at what it took to get rid of the taint. The taint can't be anything compared to the DO.