Will the Creator speak again

[Entreri]

Yes he will. Speak again that is.

 

Creator's last words: I'LL BE BACK.

 

 

 

 

Brandon will be writing more WoT stories. Once this series goes into LoTR type movies, $$$$$$$$$$$. Maybe Arnold (CGI) the Governator can star as the gholam.

[number13]

Disagree.

 

I would like to see why people think it is not the DO's MO. What is not DO about this?

 

"IT IS NOT HERE."- in response to Rand literally calling out the DO and demanding they have it out

 

"ONLY THE CHOSEN ONE CAN DO WHAT MUST BE DONE, IF HE WILL" whereupon the DO, if it is him, directs Rand to the Chosen One- who isn't Rand, but Moridin. Remember, the Forsaken are "the Chosen" to the DO.

 

If HERE is at or near Shayol Ghul- say in Moridin's fire-room, which may be in a vacuole attached "near" Shayol Ghul, or in TAR, or at SG- then Rand, in his first flush of power as the Dragon, is calling out the DO for TG- and the DO tells him "Look, if you want to start it now, that's fine- my Nae'blis is responsible for making sure the conditions are met. He's in this room, pop in and start swinging if you think you're ready."

 

Ishy has spent thousands of pages trying to make sure the Last Battle happens when it's advantageous for the Shadow, and that Rand is in the "right" frame of mind. The Prophecies are partially to guide Rand. But with the Shadow in play, the Wheel can't predict everything, and the Prophecies can fail. To me, that means that the trigger conditions for the LB can be met at nearly any time- it's making sure they're met at the right time that's the issue.

 

Late night side-thought: If the Champion of Light has fallen before, then Moridin may be the original Dragon. Hence being Chosen.

 

Alternately, "Chosen to rule the world forever" may be a very sloppy rendition of "Chosen to rule the world until the end of time"- in like, five minutes.

 

See, for me the "IF HE WILL" immediately rules out the Dark One.

 

He's not the sort of entity to allow for choice in those who follow him. MY CHAMPION WILL DESTROY YOU would have been more his métier, surely?

[Guest PiotrekS]

Disagree.

 

I would like to see why people think it is not the DO's MO. What is not DO about this?

 

"IT IS NOT HERE."- in response to Rand literally calling out the DO and demanding they have it out

 

"ONLY THE CHOSEN ONE CAN DO WHAT MUST BE DONE, IF HE WILL" whereupon the DO, if it is him, directs Rand to the Chosen One- who isn't Rand, but Moridin. Remember, the Forsaken are "the Chosen" to the DO.

 

If HERE is at or near Shayol Ghul- say in Moridin's fire-room, which may be in a vacuole attached "near" Shayol Ghul, or in TAR, or at SG- then Rand, in his first flush of power as the Dragon, is calling out the DO for TG- and the DO tells him "Look, if you want to start it now, that's fine- my Nae'blis is responsible for making sure the conditions are met. He's in this room, pop in and start swinging if you think you're ready."

 

Ishy has spent thousands of pages trying to make sure the Last Battle happens when it's advantageous for the Shadow, and that Rand is in the "right" frame of mind. The Prophecies are partially to guide Rand. But with the Shadow in play, the Wheel can't predict everything, and the Prophecies can fail. To me, that means that the trigger conditions for the LB can be met at nearly any time- it's making sure they're met at the right time that's the issue.

 

Late night side-thought: If the Champion of Light has fallen before, then Moridin may be the original Dragon. Hence being Chosen.

 

Alternately, "Chosen to rule the world forever" may be a very sloppy rendition of "Chosen to rule the world until the end of time"- in like, five minutes.

 

First of all, the DO can't at the moment touch the word outside Shayol Ghul and communicate with anybody, becasue he is sealed away and the seals have just begun to weaken.

 

Second, Rand did not hear anything "horrible" in the voice, which Demandred distictly commented upon during his meeting with DO. When he heard DO's voice, it was clear it was not only the voice of a being who is not only powerful, but also evil.

[b3arz3rg3r]

Disagree.

 

I would like to see why people think it is not the DO's MO. What is not DO about this?

 

"IT IS NOT HERE."- in response to Rand literally calling out the DO and demanding they have it out

 

"ONLY THE CHOSEN ONE CAN DO WHAT MUST BE DONE, IF HE WILL" whereupon the DO, if it is him, directs Rand to the Chosen One- who isn't Rand, but Moridin. Remember, the Forsaken are "the Chosen" to the DO.

 

If HERE is at or near Shayol Ghul- say in Moridin's fire-room, which may be in a vacuole attached "near" Shayol Ghul, or in TAR, or at SG- then Rand, in his first flush of power as the Dragon, is calling out the DO for TG- and the DO tells him "Look, if you want to start it now, that's fine- my Nae'blis is responsible for making sure the conditions are met. He's in this room, pop in and start swinging if you think you're ready."

 

Ishy has spent thousands of pages trying to make sure the Last Battle happens when it's advantageous for the Shadow, and that Rand is in the "right" frame of mind. The Prophecies are partially to guide Rand. But with the Shadow in play, the Wheel can't predict everything, and the Prophecies can fail. To me, that means that the trigger conditions for the LB can be met at nearly any time- it's making sure they're met at the right time that's the issue.

 

Late night side-thought: If the Champion of Light has fallen before, then Moridin may be the original Dragon. Hence being Chosen.

 

Alternately, "Chosen to rule the world forever" may be a very sloppy rendition of "Chosen to rule the world until the end of time"- in like, five minutes.

 

First of all, the DO can't at the moment touch the word outside Shayol Ghul and communicate with anybody, becasue he is sealed away and the seals have just begun to weaken.

 

Second, Rand did not hear anything "horrible" in the voice, which Demandred distictly commented upon during his meeting with DO. When he heard DO's voice, it was clear it was not only the voice of a being who is not only powerful, but also evil.

 

I think you are overlooking two things in your first argument. First, the power of the Eye. We still don't know what the Eye was originally intended for, but we do know that Rand didn't use it as intended and that fact may yet come to bite him in the ass. Somehow using it made Rand shine with a bright light everyone could see. It's kinda similar to the new Zen-Rand who blinds darkfriends who see him. Especially with that light Nyneave saw within him which is apparently protecting him from the DO's touch on his mind.

As ignorant as Rand was back then how would we know what he may or may not have done unconsciously with the Power? It doesn't match the rules for regular mortals, but TOM makes it rather obvious that the regular rules no longer apply for Zen-Rand.

The second thing you overlooked is that in a way it has been possible to communicate with the DO for 3,000 years. Or what do you think is the deal with calling the DO by his real name. Saying the word Shai'tan apparently opens some sort of conduit to the DO which allows him to affect the world around you to some extent. Rand may not have said Shai'tan that time, but given who he is and how he was at the very border of the DO's domain I really don't think it would be outlandish for the DO to notice a thought which is directly adressed to him.

 

 

As for your second argument I'd say that is negligible. So RJ didn't write that the voice felt evil or some such. Big deal. It's just some minor detail.

[Suttree]

Saying the word Shai'tan apparently opens some sort of conduit to the DO which allows him to affect the world around you to some extent. Rand may not have said Shai'tan that time, but given who he is and how he was at the very border of the DO's domain I really don't think it would be outlandish for the DO to notice a thought which is directly adressed to him.

 

 

As for your second argument I'd say that is negligible. So RJ didn't write that the voice felt evil or some such. Big deal. It's just some minor detail.

 

Why then would the forsaken need to travel to SG to communicate with him?

[b3arz3rg3r]

Saying the word Shai'tan apparently opens some sort of conduit to the DO which allows him to affect the world around you to some extent. Rand may not have said Shai'tan that time, but given who he is and how he was at the very border of the DO's domain I really don't think it would be outlandish for the DO to notice a thought which is directly adressed to him.

 

 

As for your second argument I'd say that is negligible. So RJ didn't write that the voice felt evil or some such. Big deal. It's just some minor detail.

 

Why then would the forsaken need to travel to SG to communicate with him?

 

Probably because they didn't use the Eye to start shining with Light and aren't able to understand him unless at SG. Also because the DO likes to instill terror in his servants and that works better at SG, though Shaidar Haran is a nice proxy. And lastly we have never seen a Forsaken talk to the DO because he or she likes to. I dimly recall Lanfear telling Rand that she won't call him by his name because she regards it as some sort of sacrilege or something. Which to me is just a thinly veiled excuse for her to avoid the DO's touch as much as possible.

[MasterAblar]

Disagree.

 

I would like to see why people think it is not the DO's MO. What is not DO about this?

 

"IT IS NOT HERE."- in response to Rand literally calling out the DO and demanding they have it out

 

"ONLY THE CHOSEN ONE CAN DO WHAT MUST BE DONE, IF HE WILL" whereupon the DO, if it is him, directs Rand to the Chosen One- who isn't Rand, but Moridin. Remember, the Forsaken are "the Chosen" to the DO.

 

If HERE is at or near Shayol Ghul- say in Moridin's fire-room, which may be in a vacuole attached "near" Shayol Ghul, or in TAR, or at SG- then Rand, in his first flush of power as the Dragon, is calling out the DO for TG- and the DO tells him "Look, if you want to start it now, that's fine- my Nae'blis is responsible for making sure the conditions are met. He's in this room, pop in and start swinging if you think you're ready."

 

Ishy has spent thousands of pages trying to make sure the Last Battle happens when it's advantageous for the Shadow, and that Rand is in the "right" frame of mind. The Prophecies are partially to guide Rand. But with the Shadow in play, the Wheel can't predict everything, and the Prophecies can fail. To me, that means that the trigger conditions for the LB can be met at nearly any time- it's making sure they're met at the right time that's the issue.

 

Late night side-thought: If the Champion of Light has fallen before, then Moridin may be the original Dragon. Hence being Chosen.

 

Alternately, "Chosen to rule the world forever" may be a very sloppy rendition of "Chosen to rule the world until the end of time"- in like, five minutes.

 

See, for me the "IF HE WILL" immediately rules out the Dark One.

 

He's not the sort of entity to allow for choice in those who follow him. MY CHAMPION WILL DESTROY YOU would have been more his métier, surely?

 

My thoughts exactly.

[Suttree]

Probably because they didn't use the Eye to start shining with Light and aren't able to understand him unless at SG.

 

Why would pure untainted Saidin help the DO communicate in anyway? Seriously grasping at straws here.

[Cybertrolloc]

I guess there was a significant rewrite of CoT's A Mark. Someone want to quote the current edition for me (might as well for EotW too)?

 

Sadly, this evidence doesn't exist in my versions.

[b3arz3rg3r]

Probably because they didn't use the Eye to start shining with Light and aren't able to understand him unless at SG.

 

Why would pure untainted Saidin help the DO communicate in anyway? Seriously grasping at straws here.

 

Why would the Creator talk there, lead Rand to Isha'mael for an absolutely pointless encounter, and then be silent for the rest of the series? Seriously grasping at straws here. My explanation still sounds more likely to me than a completely nonsensical appearance of the Creator.

[Suttree]

Probably because they didn't use the Eye to start shining with Light and aren't able to understand him unless at SG.

 

Why would pure untainted Saidin help the DO communicate in anyway? Seriously grasping at straws here.

 

Why would the Creator talk there, lead Rand to Isha'mael for an absolutely pointless encounter, and then be silent for the rest of the series? Seriously grasping at straws here. My explanation still sounds more likely to me than a completely nonsensical appearance of the Creator.

 

Because RJ didn't have the world fully fleshed out hence this being an "early bookism".

 

The fact that the Creator's statement just happens to mirror exactly what RJ gives us as the Creators thoughts on the topic is fairly indicative don't you think. Hardly grasping at straws mate.

[b3arz3rg3r]

Probably because they didn't use the Eye to start shining with Light and aren't able to understand him unless at SG.

 

Why would pure untainted Saidin help the DO communicate in anyway? Seriously grasping at straws here.

 

Why would the Creator talk there, lead Rand to Isha'mael for an absolutely pointless encounter, and then be silent for the rest of the series? Seriously grasping at straws here. My explanation still sounds more likely to me than a completely nonsensical appearance of the Creator.

 

Because RJ didn't have the world fully fleshed out hence this being an "early bookism".

 

The fact that the Creator's statement just happens to mirror exactly what RJ gives us as the Creators thoughts on the topic is fairly indicative don't you think. Hardly grasping at straws mate.

 

The argument of the early bookism cuts both ways. Something minor as the Dark One being able to talk to Rand or his voice not feeling evil are even more likely I'd say.

 

Also, nothing the Voice said couldn't be from the Dark One. In fact what he says makes a lot more sense to come from the DO. How he replies when Rand challenges Ba'alzamon. Talking about the Chosen and we see immediately afterwards Ishamael. Even the stuff about not taking part fits the Dark One's agenda, afterall he must have known that it wasn't time for the Last Battle yet and with the power of the Eye filling Rand it would have been an unnecessary risk anyways. There's really nothing which looks like the Creator in it.

 

The dialogue is basically this:

Rand: "Damn you Dark One! Let's do this! Here and now!"

DO: "Not here and not now. I'm busy. If you want to play you can deal with my proxy, if he is of a mind to do it."

 

What you describe would sound like this:

Rand: "Damn you Dark One! Let's do this! Here and now!"

Creator: "Sup, Creator here. Just wanted to mention that if you want to challenge the Dark One it isn't going to happen here and I'm not going to help you. No idea why I'm talking to you in the third person calling you the Chosen One and all that, probably because it sounds much more convoluted that way. Again, the end isn't here this is just the first book of the series. We'll talk again in thirteen books."

[Suttree]

Probably because they didn't use the Eye to start shining with Light and aren't able to understand him unless at SG.

 

Why would pure untainted Saidin help the DO communicate in anyway? Seriously grasping at straws here.

 

Why would the Creator talk there, lead Rand to Isha'mael for an absolutely pointless encounter, and then be silent for the rest of the series? Seriously grasping at straws here. My explanation still sounds more likely to me than a completely nonsensical appearance of the Creator.

 

Because RJ didn't have the world fully fleshed out hence this being an "early bookism".

 

The fact that the Creator's statement just happens to mirror exactly what RJ gives us as the Creators thoughts on the topic is fairly indicative don't you think. Hardly grasping at straws mate.

 

The argument of the early bookism cuts both ways. Something minor as the Dark One being able to talk to Rand or his voice not feeling evil are even more likely I'd say.

 

Also, nothing the Voice said couldn't be from the Dark One. In fact what he says makes a lot more sense to come from the DO. How he replies when Rand challenges Ba'alzamon. Talking about the Chosen and we see immediately afterwards Ishamael. Even the stuff about not taking part fits the Dark One's agenda, afterall he must have known that it wasn't time for the Last Battle yet and with the power of the Eye filling Rand it would have been an unnecessary risk anyways. There's really nothing which looks like the Creator in it.

 

The dialogue is basically this:

Rand: "Damn you Dark One! Let's do this! Here and now!"

DO: "Not here and not now. I'm busy. If you want to play you can deal with my proxy, if he is of a mind to do it."

 

What you describe would sound like this:

Rand: "Damn you Dark One! Let's do this! Here and now!"

Creator: "Sup, Creator here. Just wanted to mention that if you want to challenge the Dark One it isn't going to happen here and I'm not going to help you. No idea why I'm talking to you in the third person calling you the Chosen One and all that, probably because it sounds much more convoluted that way. Again, the end isn't here this is just the first book of the series. We'll talk again in thirteen books."

 

Except we know the DO does take a part. He takes as active part as possible and no amount of spinning meaning will change that.

 

As for your dialogue breakdown that was pretty amusing, it got a chuckle for sure. I don't however think the Creator will be speaking again.

[b3arz3rg3r]

Except we know the DO does take a part. He takes as active part as possible and no amount of spinning meaning will change that.

Are you talking about the Last Battle? Because from what I remember the DO did not take part in that encounter at the end of TEOTW. In fact I believe so far not once has the DO gotten directly involved in a confrontation with the forces of the Light. He has always fought indirectly through proxies or the weather or even his taint on saidin.

 

As for your dialogue breakdown that was pretty amusing, it got a chuckle for sure. I don't however think the Creator will be speaking again.

 

My breakdown was certainly intended to be amusing, but that doesn't make it any less true. Well, aside from the bit about speaking in thirteen books again you mentioned.

[Suttree]

Are you talking about the Last Battle? Because from what I remember the DO did not take part in that encounter at the end of TEOTW. In fact I believe so far not once has the DO gotten directly involved in a confrontation with the forces of the Light. He has always fought indirectly through proxies or the weather or even his taint on saidin.

 

Im talking about him being actively involved with the little things, you know like changing the seasons, unraveling the pattern, Shadar Haran etc...those are him taking an active part. He actively exerts his will on the weather to change it, he actively inhabits SH as his shadow avatar. He has taking as active as a part as possible giving the restrictions of his prison.

[b3arz3rg3r]

Are you talking about the Last Battle? Because from what I remember the DO did not take part in that encounter at the end of TEOTW. In fact I believe so far not once has the DO gotten directly involved in a confrontation with the forces of the Light. He has always fought indirectly through proxies or the weather or even his taint on saidin.

 

Im talking about him being actively involved with the little things, you know like changing the seasons, unraveling the pattern, Shadar Haran etc...those are him taking an active part. He actively exerts his will on the weather to change it, he actively inhabits SH as his shadow avatar. He has taking as active as a part as possible giving the restrictions of his prison.

 

But he hasn't taken part in any battle against Rand so far, or has he? In books 1 to 3 it was always Ishy, then there were a couple of bubbles of evil over the next books and the other Forsaken. And that was the point, wasn't it? The voice only says that it will not take part in the upcoming confrontation, not that it won't do anything in the future.

[Orderofolde]

There's just one small problem with the RJ quote as to the Creator making a perfect world. It would be insignificant except for the fact that there's the DO, who over time gets locked away and then surfaces to touch and taint this perfect creation, or else the Creator or the Pattern would not spin out the Dragon to bring about the "balance" for lack of a better term. Fandom has picked up on a few points over time as to things looking to be heading one way and without quotes from RJ we'd have the majority of people thinking in other directions. I'm too tired to recall names, it was something like Taim sounding a lot like Ishy or Demandred and all the small indicators of terminology, sigil, clothing and colors, etc.

 

Some other things such as POV's from Graendal wondering about Asmodean after the fact she was supposed to have killed him, and nothing in the notes as to how this was to have happened, but RJ giving us the speech about it being intuitively obvious as to the who dunnit, and about the HOW and the WHERE he died being factors preventing his resurrection by the DO. Granted Graendal fit as she hit up Sammeal's place in Illian to rifle through his collection of Ter'angreal and old things of yesteryear that followed later in the story line, but quotes should be taken with a grain of salt. If someone guesses the ending or comes close to it halfway through one of my stories, bet your last buck I'll dazzle and befuddle their minds until they are stuck going in circles and second-guessing themselves. As to the voice, it is intuitively obvious to the majority that it is the Creator. LTT we know about, but have no idea he'll play any further part aside from some background. The DO? It's the only other voice in all caps we know of, but the words don't drive him to his knees in that weird pain/rapture the Forsaken get from it each time they venture one by one to Shayol Ghul, too afraid to all get locked away again. There is also the small part of his soul not being tied to the DO either so probably it would be nothing but pain and agony and suffering. I just can't wait to RAFO, then anything we've been RAFO'd on that isn't answered we will be directing Brandon and Harriet's way for our curiosity no doubt.

[Bob T Dwarf]

I think Suttree and a few others have this one right. The DO would not leave the question open. There are no choices with the DO. It's its way or eternal damnation and torture for your soul.

 

Also, there's more than one Chosen in the DO's camp. The VOICE in The Eye of the World SPEAKS of the ONE CHOSEN. The Creator only has one Champion. One Dragon.

 

It was Jordan, establishing early, and without equivocation, that there would be no Crreator riding over the horizon on a White Charger ala Gandalf so save mankind's worthless kiesters. Mankind made this mess so one man was gonna hafta clean it up for them. IF he was willing.

 

Rand was.

 

 

< I'm not sure that if he'd known it was gonna take 20 years and 14 volumes Rand would have accepted, though >

[b3arz3rg3r]

I think Suttree and a few others have this one right. The DO would not leave the question open. There are no choices with the DO. It's its way or eternal damnation and torture for your soul.

 

Also, there's more than one Chosen in the DO's camp. The VOICE in The Eye of the World SPEAKS of the ONE CHOSEN. The Creator only has one Champion. One Dragon.

 

It was Jordan, establishing early, and without equivocation, that there would be no Crreator riding over the horizon on a White Charger ala Gandalf so save mankind's worthless kiesters. Mankind made this mess so one man was gonna hafta clean it up for them. IF he was willing.

 

Rand was.

 

 

< I'm not sure that if he'd known it was gonna take 20 years and 14 volumes Rand would have accepted, though >

 

 

The meeting of Ishy and Rand in TEOTW wasn't required, so there's nothing really wrong with the DO saying that it's up to Ishy and the DO has only one Nae'blis, that's his chosen mortal beyond everyone else.

 

There would be no need for Jordan to establish the noninvolvement of the Creator if he, you know, let him remain uninvolved. Having the Creator appear just to say that he isn't going to do anything is completely redundant and bad writing to boot. Without it no one would ever even expect the Creator to do anything.

 

 

I'm surprised there isn't a word of god on this one. Someone must have asked RJ who that voice was. Did he RAFO it? It really doesn't seem to be something worth hiding forever.

[Bob T Dwarf]

I think Suttree and a few others have this one right. The DO would not leave the question open. There are no choices with the DO. It's its way or eternal damnation and torture for your soul.

 

Also, there's more than one Chosen in the DO's camp. The VOICE in The Eye of the World SPEAKS of the ONE CHOSEN. The Creator only has one Champion. One Dragon.

 

It was Jordan, establishing early, and without equivocation, that there would be no Crreator riding over the horizon on a White Charger ala Gandalf so save mankind's worthless kiesters. Mankind made this mess so one man was gonna hafta clean it up for them. IF he was willing.

 

Rand was.

 

 

< I'm not sure that if he'd known it was gonna take 20 years and 14 volumes Rand would have accepted, though >

 

 

The meeting of Ishy and Rand in TEOTW wasn't required, so there's nothing really wrong with the DO saying that it's up to Ishy and the DO has only one Nae'blis, that's his chosen mortal beyond everyone else.

 

There would be no need for Jordan to establish the noninvolvement of the Creator if he, you know, let him remain uninvolved. Having the Creator appear just to say that he isn't going to do anything is completely redundant and bad writing to boot. Without it no one would ever even expect the Creator to do anything.

 

 

I'm surprised there isn't a word of god on this one. Someone must have asked RJ who that voice was. Did he RAFO it? It really doesn't seem to be something worth hiding forever.

 

At the time that The Eye of the World was written, the battle between Rand and Ba'alzamon was very much required. He'd pitched a 3 book deal. He'd been given a contract for 6 books ( since Tom Dougherty knew how verbose he could be ) and he had 13 Forsaken to dispose of. Getting rid of just one of them was gonna leave him with 12 to get rid of in 5 more books.

 

That was when Jordan began to go crazy. Not only did he bring Ba'alzamon back - twice - before finally killing him for good. He went Green and recycled him as Moridin.

 

Canny man James Rigney. He'd found himself a patsy at TOR and he bled him for every word and every cent he possibly could. AND, left us with a very messy and overblown series as a result.

 

 

EDIT: Oops, or oosp as my sister would say. Jordan actually killed off three Forsaken in The Eye of the World. But then the silly sod recycled all of them so it didn't count anyway.

[Cybertrolloc]

You know, that makes Moridin's musings over the Shara (spelling? PoD prologue) board weird. Granted he's insane and not a reliable narrator :)

 

Voice in EotW has been RAFO by BS, pretty sure RJ has.

[Bob T Dwarf]

You know, that makes Moridin's musings over the Shara (spelling? PoD prologue) board weird. Granted he's insane and not a reliable narrator :)

 

Voice in EotW has been RAFO by BS, pretty sure RJ has.

 

Yeah. Sometimes I think Jordan RAFOed things because he couldn't believe the question. He thought he'd made the answer plain in what he'd already written. If the person was only skimming the books, then he/she didn't deserve to know the answer anyway.

[andrewks]

I think Suttree and a few others have this one right. The DO would not leave the question open. There are no choices with the DO. It's its way or eternal damnation and torture for your soul.

 

Also, there's more than one Chosen in the DO's camp. The VOICE in The Eye of the World SPEAKS of the ONE CHOSEN. The Creator only has one Champion. One Dragon.

 

It was Jordan, establishing early, and without equivocation, that there would be no Crreator riding over the horizon on a White Charger ala Gandalf so save mankind's worthless kiesters. Mankind made this mess so one man was gonna hafta clean it up for them. IF he was willing.

 

Rand was.

 

 

< I'm not sure that if he'd known it was gonna take 20 years and 14 volumes Rand would have accepted, though >

 

 

The meeting of Ishy and Rand in TEOTW wasn't required, so there's nothing really wrong with the DO saying that it's up to Ishy and the DO has only one Nae'blis, that's his chosen mortal beyond everyone else.

 

There would be no need for Jordan to establish the noninvolvement of the Creator if he, you know, let him remain uninvolved. Having the Creator appear just to say that he isn't going to do anything is completely redundant and bad writing to boot. Without it no one would ever even expect the Creator to do anything.

 

 

I'm surprised there isn't a word of god on this one. Someone must have asked RJ who that voice was. Did he RAFO it? It really doesn't seem to be something worth hiding forever.

 

 

 

Canny man James Rigney. He'd found himself a patsy at TOR and he bled him for every word and every cent he possibly could. AND, left us with a very messy and overblown series as a result.

 

That's a little harsh. I don't find the series messy or overblown.

[sgwin]

I kind of like the idea of the voice being the Dark One speaking to and about Rand. It would kind of be a foreshadowing of Veins of Gold in TGS, I guess, when Rand almost unmakes the Pattern. I presume that the Dragon/Chosen One/Champion of the Light has to voluntarily destroy the Pattern for the Dark One to really win, mostly from this RJ quote and Veins of Gold:

 

RJ: Yes, the Champion of the Light has gone over in the past. This is a game you have to win every time. Or rather, that you can only lose once--you can stay in if you get a draw. Think of a tournament with single elimination. If you lose once, that's it. In the past, when the Champion of the Light has gone over to the Shadow, the result has been a draw.

 

So in tEotW, Rand yells into the air at Ba'alzamon, who Rand thinks is the DO, and says, "This has to end!" The DO, knowing that only Rand has the ability to completely end the Pattern and give him total victory, is worried that Rand is about to assault Shayol Ghul or use too much of the Power or do something else crazy and get himself killed before he has a chance to get him to unravel the Pattern. Hence, the DO tries to stop Rand from doing that just yet.

 

IT IS NOT HERE.

"IT" being Tarmon Gai'don, I guess. Or just the "end." He's just trying to keep Rand alive by telling him the fight is not "HERE," in time or place. Translation: "WHOA! NOT NOW! PLEASE DON'T DO SOMETHING STUPID AND GET YOURSELF KILLED BEFORE I CAN CONVINCE YOU TO DO WHAT I NEED YOU TO DO. THAT WOULD RUIN EVERYTHING AND MAKE ME WAIT ANOTHER SEVERAL MILLENNIA FOR YOU TO COME AROUND AGAIN."

 

I WILL TAKE NO PART. ONLY THE CHOSEN ONE CAN DO WHAT MUST BE DONE, IF HE WILL.

This would mean that only Rand, the "Chosen One," has the ability to unmake the Pattern and give the DO the final victory. From the DO's perspective, this is "WHAT MUST BE DONE." "IF HE WILL," of course. The Dragon has to do it of his own volition. I infer from RJ's quote that, though the Dragon has gone over to the Shadow on occasion, he's never been a true believer like Moridin and unmade the Pattern.

 

I think it's more likely to be an EotWism, but I do kind of like this idea.

[Bob T Dwarf]

I kind of like the idea of the voice being the Dark One speaking to and about Rand. It would kind of be a foreshadowing of Veins of Gold in TGS, I guess, when Rand almost unmakes the Pattern. I presume that the Dragon/Chosen One/Champion of the Light has to voluntarily destroy the Pattern for the Dark One to really win, mostly from this RJ quote and Veins of Gold:

 

RJ: Yes, the Champion of the Light has gone over in the past. This is a game you have to win every time. Or rather, that you can only lose once--you can stay in if you get a draw. Think of a tournament with single elimination. If you lose once, that's it. In the past, when the Champion of the Light has gone over to the Shadow, the result has been a draw.

 

So in tEotW, Rand yells into the air at Ba'alzamon, who Rand thinks is the DO, and says, "This has to end!" The DO, knowing that only Rand has the ability to completely end the Pattern and give him total victory, is worried that Rand is about to assault Shayol Ghul or use too much of the Power or do something else crazy and get himself killed before he has a chance to get him to unravel the Pattern. Hence, the DO tries to stop Rand from doing that just yet.

 

IT IS NOT HERE.

"IT" being Tarmon Gai'don, I guess. Or just the "end." He's just trying to keep Rand alive by telling him the fight is not "HERE," in time or place. Translation: "WHOA! NOT NOW! PLEASE DON'T DO SOMETHING STUPID AND GET YOURSELF KILLED BEFORE I CAN CONVINCE YOU TO DO WHAT I NEED YOU TO DO. THAT WOULD RUIN EVERYTHING AND MAKE ME WAIT ANOTHER SEVERAL MILLENNIA FOR YOU TO COME AROUND AGAIN."

 

I WILL TAKE NO PART. ONLY THE CHOSEN ONE CAN DO WHAT MUST BE DONE, IF HE WILL.

This would mean that only Rand, the "Chosen One," has the ability to unmake the Pattern and give the DO the final victory. From the DO's perspective, this is "WHAT MUST BE DONE." "IF HE WILL," of course. The Dragon has to do it of his own volition. I infer from RJ's quote that, though the Dragon has gone over to the Shadow on occasion, he's never been a true believer like Moridin and unmade the Pattern.

 

I think it's more likely to be an EotWism, but I do kind of like this idea.

 

Possible, but unlikely. At this point in the series, none of the cuendillar Focus Points have been found yet. There is no indication ( to the Light ) that any of the Seals themselves have failed until Aginor and Balthamel show up at the Eye. It is rather unlikely that enough had yet failed that the DO could manifest a VOICE at a place as far from Shayol Ghul as Tarwin's Gap.

 

Things are just beginning. The Dark is just starting to make itself known to the outside world. The DO does not yet possess sufficient strength to touch the outside world so directly. Or reach so far from the one place it can manifest at all.