Origin of Machin Shin

[Bobaganoosh_30]

I don't know if this has ever been posted about, or thought of yet. But in case it hasn't, I wanted to drop this info on some other wheel of time heads and see what they thought. The origin of the black wind in the Ways comes from Shaidar Logoth. Everything in that city is tainted with the hate that consumed it. There was and still is a Waygate that stands within the confines of that tainted city. I propose that Machin Shin entered into the Ways via the Waygate at Shaidar Logoth. And also something Moiraine said about Padan Fain in TGH I believe it was. She said when Padan Fain had followed them threw the Gateway from Caemlyn to Shienar, that the Black Wind caught him, and greated him as a friend, or was scared of him, or something very similar to that. That furthered my belief that the Black Wind had nothing to do with the Shadow (Dark One), and everything to do with Shaidar Logoth and Padan Fain. Black Wind eats friends of the Light and Dark Friends with equal fervor, but not Padan Fain who is mostly Mordeth.

[Aliriel]

I think Machin Shin's reaction to Fain was due to the duel darkness's that are within Fain.

He was the DO's hound, has had his essense distilled over and over at SG, but then when in SL he is taken over by Moredeith, the opposite evil of the DO. Poor Machin Shin just didn't know what he had bitten into... Like biting into a perfect looking apple only to find it rotten to the core.

 

A.

[Durinax]

at the point that fain got caught by the wind, he wasn't mordeth yet

[Leyrann]

He partly was. When chasing Rand and his friends in Shadar Logoth, he was touched by Mordeth.

 

And there is a theory that the Black Wind is a part of Mashadar that became trapped in the ways when the Shadow's army there tried to flee through the ways. I think that is most likely, but we don't know for sure.

[Majsju]

Machin Shin was caused by the taint, since the ways originally was grown with Saidin. RJ explained this at D*Con -05, so we do know for sure where it came from.

[Leyrann]

Machin Shin was caused by the taint, since the ways originally was grown with Saidin. RJ explained this at D*Con -05, so we do know for sure where it came from.

 

No arguing about it...

[FossMaNo1]

Yes, the Black Wind came from the taint on Saidin, however that's all we really know of it. To me, this does not explain how the Black Wind came to be somewhat intelligent. Therefore, I am running a WoT roleplaying game (based on the Shadowrun 4 rules) that will explain it, at least to my satisfaction.

 

This is the explanation in a nutshell (the backstory for part of my campaign)...

 

About 500 years prior to the main storyline (the time in which my game is set), the Ways began decaying: rotten fruit on the trees, grass dying along the bridges/islands, etc. It wasn't very bad, but it was bad enough for the Ogier to pay attention to. The Ogier started investigating why the Ways were corrupting and came upon the theory that it had to do with Saidin. Well, since the Ogier had no way of combating the Taint or the One Power (they themselves cannot weild the One Power), they sought out another power that might help them.

 

The Green Man was hiding with the Forest of Shadows, guarding the Horn. The Ogier found the Green Man and convinced him to let them borrow the Horn. They wished to bring it into the Ways and summon the Heroes of the Horn to combat the Taint. The Green Man agreed to the request--the Ways are on a completely different plane than that of the real world, so there shouldn't be any reprecussions to using it there--and the Ogier took the Horn in. When they summoned the Heroes, however, the Heroes were not strong enough to even be in the presence of the Dark One's hand on the Power. Instead of being summoned, the darkness that is in every man (yes, even Heroes of the Horn) was copied and added to the Taint, giving it an intelligence. Thus was born the Black Wind. Without the Horn, the Ways would have still collapsed and decayed, but the Black Wind was the outcome of folly.

 

Part of my game will be the convincing the Green Man to leave the Forest fo Shadows and find somewhere taht no man could find it (i.e. the floating area of "green" he produces in the Blight).

[Eht Slat Meit]

Consuming a fellow madman would be an act of cannibalism, or at least that's how I perceive it. Not necessarily professional courtesy, but recognizing one's own.

[Leyrann]

It was actually 1000 years ago...

 

And would this mean that the Heroes don't have any dark left?

 

Also, I would think Birgitte could remember it.

 

But I know it is fun to think about this. At the Black Tower, one of the Social Groups, we are now discussing what happens if you balefire a black hole...

[FossMaNo1]

It was actually 1000 years ago...

 

Yikes... really?

 

And would this mean that the Heroes don't have any dark left?

 

No, their "darkness" was copied, not taken.

 

Also, I would think Birgitte could remember it.

 

Well, I don't think she's ever been asked about the Black Wind has she?

[Leyrann]

It was actually 1000 years ago...

 

Yikes... really?

The decay started in the War of the Hundred Years, and our calendar, which is around 1000 NA, started at the end of the War of the Hundred Years.

[FossMaNo1]

Ah well, none of my players are avid WoT readers, anyway...

[Cybertrolloc]

Machin Shin was caused by the taint, since the ways originally was grown with Saidin. RJ explained this at D*Con -05, so we do know for sure where it came from.

 

No arguing about it...

Sure you can argue about it, it's not canon and might not make a lick of sense :)

 

Is there an instance anywhere in the published works that the taint causes problems with weaves/etc? Is the Stone of Tear going to go all corrupt and stuff? (Granted this may be a special circumstance, and we don't know that much about how the ways work anyway.)

[gloweye]

We know weaves give problems on the ways... in EotW, Morraine channels when they are about to leave the ways at Fal Dara. She afterwards comments on the action, a description that made me think of what Rand feels when describing the taint.

[Suttree]

RJ was pretty clear on this...

 

Q: About Machin Shin in the Ways: since it seems to absorb the creatures that pass through there, could you regard them as a servant of the Dark One or perhaps almost as a Forsaken?

RJ: It's not a servant of the Dark One. It will kill Trollocs or anything else. You can say it's a parasite that grew in the Ways because of the taint and the One Power that was used to initially create the Ways, and the Talisman of Growing that was used to extend the Ways.

 

Q: In The Great Hunt, when Rand, Mat and Perrin are trying to enter the Ways, Machin Shin is waiting there for them. It seems like Padan Fain has it waiting there for them. Is Machin Shin in any way related to the evil of Shadar Logoth?

RJ: In some ways. Machin Shin is linked, or you might say drawn, to that. It's not a matter of linked, but more attracted by, in much the same ways as I spoke about the evils being attracted to one another due to opposite polarities. (Shadar Logoth and the taint)

In the same way there is an attraction because Machin Shin was created in effect by the taint. It grew out. You can see it as a fungus that was constructed with the wrong type of materials. If you think about it as that way you get a better idea about its true nature.

 

Q: Is Machin Shin a result of the Dark One's taint on saidin being used in the creation of the Ways, or a result of some portion of the corruption of Shadar Logoth creeping into the Ways via the Waygate there? Or is it something completely orthogonal to both these powers, merely being a parasite that showed up once the place began to grow dim?

 

RJ: Machin Shin is a function of the Dark One's taint on the male side of the force.. er.. source. [we all chuckled, and he mentioned how much he'd been traveling. :)] The corruption on Shadar Logoth is a result of an evil specifically designed to combat the Dark One's taint. This is why Rand experiences a resonance while channeling in Shadar Logoth -- the Dark One's taint is reacting to the corruption of Shadar Logoth.