[Light Vs Shadow] - HEROES AND VILLIANS MAFIA

[Red2111]

I used my role on Meesh and Wombat last night.

 

Interesting. I protected myself last night so Meesh shouldn't have died. I guess either BG managed to block you or someone blocked me. Or both. Right now I'm thinking Tina blocked me. It doesn't make sense for her to have blocked BG and then there being yet another blocking role out there to block me.

 

Vote: Tina

 

Does anyone want to claim killing Meesh?

 

actually this only supports BG's claim more imo. Leelou claimed to have bussed you and Meesh, but BG says he blocked her; which means the BG's block must have worked since you healed yourself and Meesh still died

[WWWwombat]

Also, Talya, are we going to get any information on Meesh's role?

[bgrishinko]

I used my role on Meesh and Wombat last night.

 

Interesting. I protected myself last night so Meesh shouldn't have died. I guess either BG managed to block you or someone blocked me. Or both. Right now I'm thinking Tina blocked me. It doesn't make sense for her to have blocked BG and then there being yet another blocking role out there to block me.

 

Vote: Tina

 

Does anyone want to claim killing Meesh?

 

actually this only supports BG's claim more imo. Leelou claimed to have bussed you and Meesh, but BG says he blocked her; which means the BG's block must have worked since you healed yourself and Meesh still died

 

 

Then what do you make of Song's track then?

[Red2111]

honestly i'm on the fence about SOng. her claim was to convient imo and she's trying her best to shift focus off Tina and onto you while still giving the apperance of wanting to lynch Tina.

 

 

she's on my list, but i'd prefer a Tina or Leelou lynch because i feel they'd not only give more info but are more substantial candidates.

[Pantsonfire]

I was leaning towards Tina as a town player tbh.....

As they both believe their fates are entwined and they likely are from what I surmise I'll ask what happens if they are both townies? We lose 2 days of mafia catching time instead of one. We had 20 players in the beginning is it unbelievable for us to have 2x town RBers?

 

For now I will vote BG as he has the defensive edge to his posts (at least in my mind, is anyone else getting that vibe?)

[Tiinker]

I was leaning towards Tina as a town player tbh.....

As they both believe their fates are entwined and they likely are from what I surmise I'll ask what happens if they are both townies? We lose 2 days of mafia catching time instead of one. We had 20 players in the beginning is it unbelievable for us to have 2x town RBers?

 

For now I will vote BG as he has the defensive edge to his posts (at least in my mind, is anyone else getting that vibe?)

 

It's possible and I was thinking that too even though it's pretty darn unlikely since we've already had a jailer. I thought that probably BG sent in his block first which is why it still went through but that doesn't explain why Song didn't get a result, or how BG knew he was blocked.

[Pantsonfire]

Lol @ Uluru in your Far Dares Mai siggy Red.

 

A little stretched on the horizontal if I am not mistaken, or perhaps a different angle but that big lump of rock is unmistakably ours (Australia's)

 

 

 

 

[Aiel Heart]

Unless someone NKs whichever we don't lynch.

 

I'm not sure who seems more scummy right now--BG or Tina. But it seems very unlikely that we'd have three people with a similar role, even in a game this big.

 

Ok, so Wombat says he protected himself, which apparently got blocked or didn't transfer, so when whoever tried to kill him got bussed to Meesh, Meesh died.

 

This is still assuming that Wombat actually is the Doc. It's possible he didn't get blocked at all.

 

How exactly did Turin die?

[Aiel Heart]

And I'm still closely watching anyone who's claimed a role

 

>.>

 

<.<

[Pantsonfire]

I think Turin must have been killed by a third party if the above is true. A vigilante role that chose poorly perhaps?

[Red2111]

Lol @ Uluru in your Far Dares Mai siggy Red.

 

thankies. is what i pictured the waste to look like honestly, well a mixture between the red sands with the rock formations found in the deserret here in the states.

 

 

Unless someone NKs whichever we don't lynch.

 

I'm not sure who seems more scummy right now--BG or Tina. But it seems very unlikely that we'd have three people with a similar role, even in a game this big.

 

Ok, so Wombat says he protected himself, which apparently got blocked or didn't transfer, so when whoever tried to kill him got bussed to Meesh, Meesh died.

 

This is still assuming that Wombat actually is the Doc. It's possible he didn't get blocked at all.

 

How exactly did Turin die?

 

well the easiest way to examine this is from the aspects of either BG is lieing or TIna is lieing. first we state the knowns

 

Meesh died. Turin died

 

then we state the assumed variables

 

Wombat protected Wombat

BG blocked Leelou

Leelolu bussed Wombat & Meesh

Song claims Wombat targeted no one

Tina blocked BG

 

 

now we fit it together and pick the equation which makes the most sense and fits with the knowns

 

 

Aspect #1 - BG is lieing, and assuming everyone else is telling the truth

 

this means he didn't block leelou.

 

there fore Leelou's bussing shoudl have succeeded and Wombats self protection shoud have stopped Meesh from being killed.

 

 

as Meesh is dead, this Aspect proves itself false (going on the assumption only BG is lieing)

 

 

Aspect #2 - Tina is lieing and assuming everyone else is telling the truth.

 

this means she didn't block BG

 

there fore BG's block on Leelou was succesful and prevented her. meaning Wombys self protect stayed on him and the SK took out Meesh (again with the assumption the only BG is lieing)

 

 

this aspect also implicates Song, as her results directly controdict the results from this aspect.

 

 

 

 

imo Aspect #2 seems the most likely to have occured given the info and is the way i'm leaning until we hear from Des; because as of right now Des is the only one of you lot i trust about 80% in this game.

[Red2111]

sorry that should be "Song claims BG targeted no one" under the variable list

[Red2111]

and this is wrong

 

there fore BG's block on Leelou was succesful and prevented her. meaning Wombys self protect stayed on him and the SK took out Meesh (again with the assumption the only BG is lieing)

 

 

bolded should read Tina, not BG

[Pantsonfire]

Yet this theory has no grounds if one is a town RB and one is a mafia RB.

 

Then you have to assess what would have happened if both are true. That will tell us nothing other than whether they are telling the truth about being towns people though. Only that they are/are not telling the truth about being RBers.

 

 

And yeah I agree with the Aussie outback being reminiscent of the waste. Especially because everyone over here has a spear on hand when they go out lol

[Pantsonfire]

Or both town RB as they claim

[bgrishinko]

Cutting out the player lists and actions from the quotes, here's what I think is going on with Red. I think Red isn't skimming at all, but is a smart player and is trying to deflect attention from a teammate without looking like she is defending her, as a result... she seems to be skimming as she selectively ignores info. She has been trying to play the leader role by compiling info for everyone to work it out which is a buddy manuever.

 

Watch:

(sorry if in my responses I kinda waver between talking TO Red and talking about Red...)

 

 

[info redacted]

 

 

song can you list your results from N1 and N2 please. also, i'll answer you tomorrow about the Kae thing. right now i'm crunched for time, but on my initial read to catch up fromt eh weekand i got the impression that at first you were slightly defending her, and then you distanced yoruself from her later on.

 

BG, so you think that Leelou is scum because BD's are scum; yet your voting Tina ....

 

Leelou because imo she's the better option. i dislike the intention behind the Wombat/Ley switch. an because of the problems the BD gives, especially to finder type roles, Leelou can you list your targets for the past 3 nights as well.

 

Intentionally tries to change the subject away from Tina to Leelou's actions while at the same time implies my actions are scummier and more manipulative.

 

 

i think we might benefit from adding BG & Tina to the list as well for tracking who they say their targetting.

 

one thing isn't adding up though; Tracker is a passive role, so even if BG was blocked, shouldn't Song still have seen who he targeted. i thought you only got a "targeted no one" if they forgo their NA or don't have one.

 

Questions Song's findings, but who knows how the Mod has modified or gives responses.

 

 

 

[info redacted]

 

added in the info. BG no slip up, if you recall from N2 we only had one active death, Leyrann. Hoofs was passive from getting switched to Ley from Womby. if anything, your jumping to conclusions. no where did i say or assume the scum targeted Womby for the kill. if anything Ley was taken out by a vig or SK

 

 

imo i think Wombat (the current doc) blocked agaisnt the scums target.

 

 

you jumping to conclusions like this, puts you up on my list. not to mention i dislike youe reactions to another RBer; it seems like your pushing or willing us to believe you and are trying to out argue Tina rather that truely case her.

 

Before this I accused her of slipping up in logic about the N2 kill which I thought was obvious. She obviously has a different opinion... fine. But then assumes I'm jumping to conclusions when it seemed pretty straight forward that Kae, a killer, would have been the one to, you know, do the killing. When I've seen a Killer role before, it only moves on when killed off. I assume, like in almost every game I've played, one person submits kills and if they are killed, someone else takes over. This seems to be the much more logical explanation over a rotating Killer role that just happened to be in Kae's hands when he was killed.

 

In any case, I have good reason to be voting for Tina, but you try and accuse me of not attempting to case her. I don't need to go back and case her, there is enough info here to make me believe she is scum. I don't see you casing Leelou on your vote.

 

 

for all we know, there could be two RBers and one could be insane or something. or one of you could be lying and is scum.

 

as of right now, i feel better about lynching a BD than delving into the WIFOM surrounding the RBer claims.

 

Stretching it to try and maintain Tina's innocence later on if I get lynched. You plant a seed here and later the arguement might come up again after I flip town which you can use as wiggle room to maybe avoid a lynch on Tina.

 

Again, wants to move away from this and redirect attention away from Tina and onto Leelou.

 

 

[info redacted]

Ok Red, let's play it your way. Leelou is scum BD and Kae didn't do the killing, then either me or Tina would have to be a Vig or SK. That doesn't add up either.

 

actually to me that leaves Tina, Leelou and YOU as the possible SK, beause for all i know your all three lying about yer roles. personally i think two RBs in a game, regaurdless of alignment is a bit much. speaking balance wise, it would be easy to balance a scum BD with a town RB and town Jail Keeper.

 

we know the town had a Jailkeeper, we know theres a RBer because Des was blocked. we now can be almost sure theres a BD because of yesturday. so imo, the easiest explination or easiest assumption is the one i made. which means i'd be down with a tina or leelou lynch, i like competing trains to see what digs up, you already voted Tina so i'm voting Leelou.

 

clear now. the problem is comming from us assuming two different scenarios, and our different ideas on how the BD role would be used. and honestly BG, how does Tina being the SK not make since; most of us agree one of you RBers are lying, the SK could use that as good cover imo.

 

See bolded. I included myself. Also it is apparent from N2 that a bus driver exists and targeted Wombat. I don't see how Leelou would be a Bus Driver AND a SK.

You kind of retract your weird earlier arguement about an insane RBer. Which is probably a smart move either way.

 

At this point, I think you have noticed that the Tina arguement isn't going away and you can't ignore it anymore since people have started to call you out of weird arguements and looking like you are skimming.

 

Because Kae did in fact target wombat both nights, and she ended up targetting ley N2 because of the bus and he died... I don't know what you don't get about that.

 

someone else said the role Kae had is transferable; she may have targeted Wombat both nights but it could have been with a different role for all i know. as i'm not privy to everyones NA's and what they do, all i can do is GUESS what goes on behind the scenes. which is all any of us are doing considering any number of the reveals (to include yours) could be lies.

 

for all i know is you could be scum and using Kae to help clear yourself and try and get the assumed townies lynched; so excuse me while i dont take the apparant "facts" at face value.

 

Starting to lash out in defense with more "what ifs" and suppositions, rather than looking at what we already know. Your usually very cool and logicial about these sort of things, but in this case you are jumping to the far fetched first. Occam's Razor - Simplest explanations are more often than not the correct ones. This is mafia, and it is good to have an open mind, but not to the point of ignoring what else is already there.

 

ALso I am not trying to "push your buttons". When you make bold statements accusing people of being scummy and doing this or that, you should at least have your facts straight and/or read the game.

 

the only bold statment i've made is that i think Leelou is scum because i think the BD role is scummy. Wombat was sure to be looked at by an investigator, the scum could frame him by bussing him with a team mate so it made Wombats alignment show as scum.

 

and yes Song, you are trying to push my buttons. you know how much i dislike being accused of skimming. seems to me that you (and now Tina) are trying to goad me into an emotional emo melt down on thread to make lynchign me that much easier. like i said, you want to push a lynch on me and distract away from finding scum, go ahead, waste your time, and implicate yourself.

 

your mixing up someone being confused because this game and Reys game are very similar to me with someone whose skimming Song.

 

Using the skimming arguement and lashing out as a cover and distraction for having intentionally left out and ignored info to not have to paint Tina in a bad light. Now she is claiming the only reason she is lynching Leelou is because she things the role is scummy in general. Nothing about Leelou, or the fact that it seems to me Leelou caused Leyrann to be killed.

 

Song is pointing out that you are ignoring vital info here. It appears as if you are skimming since you were trying to glaze over the Tina/Me arguement earlier and ignore the Leelou switch kill so you can make your vote on Leelou make sense. Also, I think you are starting to see ignoring Tina as a lost cause and so now you are ready to try and start agreeing with me and start FoSing Tina by including her here. If you are allowed to make baseless suppositions about what is happening behind the scenes like you did earlier, I have one for you:

 

/start baseless supposition

 

You asked Tina to join in on Song's skimming arguement in your QT so you would have a new reason to start FoSing her to save yourself later

 

/end baseless supposition

 

 

 

I agree. Tina's behavior is scummier, but I don't like BG's target. I get why he did it, in theory. But look how it turned out N2. We ended up getting a mafia kill and some info from the switch. I don't like the blocking of townies.

 

and who says she's a townie? both BG and i agree on one thing, we don't trust the BD to be town. in honesty, BG's targets make alot more since and his claim is backed up by Des who was very vocal about being blocked N1.

 

so the fact that Des is backing up BG with this knowledge, why are you subtley defending Tina by trying to make BG out as the scummier one.

 

 

The buddying up officially starts. I think Song's vote on me makes a heck of a lot more sense than your vote on Leelou. That's all I'm sayin about this one.

 

I don´t understand what Red is doing. Yesterday she tried to convince us that there wasn´t a bus driver that have switched Wombat with Ley. Des thought too much about it and we should do it simple and kill Wombat. And now it seams like she has skipped reading a whole day. Is this the same Red that usually thinks that skimming=scum?

 

so you see that accusing me of skimming touches a nerve and you continnue to push on it. trying to get attention away from yourself by attempting to goad me into emo meltdown scummy mcscumster.

 

that was yesturday, before i believed Des's claim and believed him to be a townie. and no i wasn't trying to convince people there wasn't a BD, i said that lynching Wombat was the easiest way to prove if there was one, get it right if your goign to accuse a person of skimming.

 

Back to my baseless suppostions, Tina's post feels forced to me.

 

Ignoring that, Red is way overreacting about an Emo meltdown in order to make sure people forget that she intentionally ignorned info or "skimmed" as it appears. In this manner she can claim anyone calling her skimming is scummy therefore paint suspicion on Song and Tina. But again, I think Tina and Red are teammates. So there is that.

 

But I wonder what he would gain by trying to lynch me. When you see that I´m town then you would surely lynch BG next time. I don´t have an important role so trading me for one scum is not worth it. The only thing that I can think of is if BG is doing this to cover up for a more important mafia member.

 

to the underline - our doc is outed and our finder is dead; the scum gain alot by offing a RBer, as it's one less deterent to their NK and one less townie on the ranks.

 

to the bold - i agree. you flip town we go after BG next; but right now his claim looks better imo because Des backs him up.

 

to the last sentence, thats assumign too much; theres a number of reasons scum do the things they do, and that assumption may cause more of a witch hunt than results.

 

Starts to rebound and respond to Tina finally since it is obvious either me or her are going down. And when one of us does go down, it will be apparent who the other one is. So if I get lynched Red will have fuel some fuel on Tina. Or maybe just forgo and kill off Tina either way.

 

 

I used my role on Meesh and Wombat last night.

 

Interesting. I protected myself last night so Meesh shouldn't have died. I guess either BG managed to block you or someone blocked me. Or both. Right now I'm thinking Tina blocked me. It doesn't make sense for her to have blocked BG and then there being yet another blocking role out there to block me.

 

Vote: Tina

 

Does anyone want to claim killing Meesh?

 

actually this only supports BG's claim more imo. Leelou claimed to have bussed you and Meesh, but BG says he blocked her; which means the BG's block must have worked since you healed yourself and Meesh still died

 

More buddying with me after fighting me earlier.

 

 

 

I'll admit, that this arguement is a little shaky, but in mafia I've gotta try and read between the lines. I think you were trying to deflect arguements from Tina onto Leelou and ignored the facts that pretty much prove Leelou is town. Then when realizing things were backfiring abandoned the plan and decided to distance from Tina.

 

I will give you one thing though, Red, if things went down as Wombat thinks and the switch happened and I wasn't RBed, I don't understand Song's track of me.

[bgrishinko]

Man, I got Ninja'd a lot while doing that.

[bgrishinko]

I was leaning towards Tina as a town player tbh.....

As they both believe their fates are entwined and they likely are from what I surmise I'll ask what happens if they are both townies? We lose 2 days of mafia catching time instead of one. We had 20 players in the beginning is it unbelievable for us to have 2x town RBers?

 

For now I will vote BG as he has the defensive edge to his posts (at least in my mind, is anyone else getting that vibe?)

 

It's possible and I was thinking that too even though it's pretty darn unlikely since we've already had a jailer. I thought that probably BG sent in his block first which is why it still went through but that doesn't explain why Song didn't get a result, or how BG knew he was blocked.

 

I only assumed I was blocked cause of Song.

[hotpocket2006]

I could have also been screwed with somehow. Mafia may have a md'r. But the mod clearly stated when I turned in BG to track, that he targetted no one.

[Niniel]

From my perspective:

 

I know I blocked BG so to me it´s not odd that Song saw BG target no one. I blocked him so he couldn´t have blocked anyone. Since he didn´t block Leelou she could switch Wombat and Meesh. But Wombat selfprotected so Meesh shouldn´t have died. What a mess.

 

I - now I´m town roleblocker

Song - I believe her since she called out Sakaea yesterday and saw BG target no one.

BG - is claiming the same role as I. If you thought I´m mafia why didn´t you target me?

Leelou - yesterday I was sure that she was the town BD. According to her someone targeted Wombat again and she redirected it to Meesh. If that is true she is a great BD. Leelou - why did you chose the one you switched? Who did you switch on night 1? I´m a bit uncertain of her now since Wombat says he protected himself.

Wombat - Sakaea tried to kill him and that would show us that he is not mafia.

 

Red is making up a lot of strange nonsense imo. To me it´s obvious that Sakaea tried to kill Wombat but happened to kill Ley. Now BG is trying to make a connection between me and Red. I don´t doubt that this could be a plot that they have planned together.

 

The biggest fos ever on Red.

Vote BG. Maybe it´s good to lynch one of us.

[Niniel]

Throwing out a question - we are 12 players left. 7 of us has claimed different roles. Would it be a good idea with a mass reveal? Would it help us or not?

 

Talya - it´s not possible to let us know Des´s result?

[Leelou]

I switched Red and Nol/Ley night one. I told you I thought that Nol was acting scummy which was my reasoning for switching him both nights with people I thought would be getting some NK attention. Meesh was more of a gamble tbh. We also don't know who Turin stayed with last night.

 

I really don't like how Red is trying to muddy the water. I need to think things over just a bit more to try to get them all straight in my head before voting.

 

Tina - normally I'm against mass reveals, but there are already so many roles out in the open. I'm still leery of a mass reveal, especially with someone on my scum list suggesting it.

[Aiel Heart]

Maybe Turin Jailkept someone last night before he died and that's what's causing some of this confusion?

 

Also, how many killing roles are there? Because we know the Mafia killer is dead and right now we have two other deaths that thus far appear to be unrelated.

[Red2111]

BG i really don't want this to turn into a poo flinging contest between you and me. focusing on me is distracting away from too really good candidates, Tina and Leelou. you see how tina latched onto accusing me of skimming, tryign to stroke the fire and shift focus off of her.

 

all thsi will degrade into is pressure for a role reveal; i'm willign to skip all the drama and go ahead and reveal cause it wont hurt the town and will shift the focus back to where it needs to be. any good i could have done behind the scene was nuetered on D1 anyways.

 

 

Cutting out the player lists and actions from the quotes, here's what I think is going on with Red. I think Red isn't skimming at all, but is a smart player and is trying to deflect attention from a teammate without looking like she is defending her, as a result... she seems to be skimming as she selectively ignores info. She has been trying to play the leader role by compiling info for everyone to work it out which is a buddy manuever.

 

stop trying to link me with Tina, it will come back to bite you later especialy if tina flips town. and i'm not defending Tina, if i'm defending anyone its you. i'm not selectively leaving out info either, atleast not to my knoweldge.

 

its a difference of opinions and trust honestly BG. most people in this game are trusting what people say their NA's were too much; me on the other hand, i'm only trusting Des at this point. and because Des said he was blocked, and you claimed to have blocked him, by defect i trust you a bit more than the others. so i'm examining the issue from that aspect.

 

and for your info, the list is mostly for my own benefit so i can keep all this crap in order; i don't keep notes outside of the games i play (never have and never will, is too much like work and i play for fun), it's all either in thread or in my head. keeping the info revealed in thread in one place benefits the town and doesn't give the scum any new info as it's already revealed on thread.

 

 

Intentionally tries to change the subject away from Tina to Leelou's actions while at the same time implies my actions are scummier and more manipulative.

 

i wasn't the only person to question you voting Tina but blocking Leelou BG so i guess a lot of us are on tina's team by your logic.

 

also, i explained this later. competing trains between the two people i see as most likely to be scum; Tina already had votes, hence the vote on Leelou.

 

 

 

Questions Song's findings, but who knows how the Mod has modified or gives responses.

 

yes i question Songs findings becuase i'm not sure i believe her reveal.

 

 

Before this I accused her of slipping up in logic about the N2 kill which I thought was obvious. She obviously has a different opinion... fine. But then assumes I'm jumping to conclusions when it seemed pretty straight forward that Kae, a killer, would have been the one to, you know, do the killing. When I've seen a Killer role before, it only moves on when killed off. I assume, like in almost every game I've played, one person submits kills and if they are killed, someone else takes over. This seems to be the much more logical explanation over a rotating Killer role that just happened to be in Kae's hands when he was killed.

 

i've seen games where theres no designated NKer, the scum team decide for themselves who will submit it *shrugs* as for the kiling role, i'll admit i've never dealt with it before so i can only assume. i haven't checked the wiki either, so theres that too. when i get the time to i plan on doing so; until then i'm taking you at yoru word that its a transferrable role.

 

but it seems to me that your assuming Kae started the game with the killing role, whose to say it wasn't transferred to her after Ley's death. not to forget that the scum obviously still has a kill seeing as there were two deaths last night after Kae was lynched.

 

point is, it depends on how Tal set up the roles and what restrictions they have. Tal is a very creative mod and a wicked player so trying to assume what the roles do is too much WIFOM, which is why i'm only dealing with the Known varialbles (corner reports) and the assumbe variables (role claims and NA reveals).

 

 

 

In any case, I have good reason to be voting for Tina, but you try and accuse me of not attempting to case her. I don't need to go back and case her, there is enough info here to make me believe she is scum. I don't see you casing Leelou on your vote.

 

that quote was in response to your interactions with tina when she first revealed as a second RBer yestur-game-day. it wasn't directed to your vote on her currently. and yes, when Tina first revealed it felt more like a pissing contest "My john is bigger than your john" argument from you rather than trying to disprove her claim via casing. i was catching up fromt eh holiday weekand and alot happened over the 5 days i was MIA from this game.

 

 

i wasn't trying to discredit you or anything, just posting the overall feeling your back and forth with Tina gave me at the time.

 

 

 

Stretching it to try and maintain Tina's innocence later on if I get lynched. You plant a seed here and later the arguement might come up again after I flip town which you can use as wiggle room to maybe avoid a lynch on Tina.

 

Again, wants to move away from this and redirect attention away from Tina and onto Leelou.

 

the bit about the RBers was tongue in cheek to sya that we have no clue what roles the mod is using and how their devised, it was not to defend or "maintain" Tina's innocence.

 

also, to the underlined. this would make since IF i was pressing for you lynch; which i haven't been doing.

 

 

and no i don't want to redirect attention away from tina, i want competing wagons between the two i think re scummiest in this game. whats wrong with that?

 

 

 

See bolded. I included myself. Also it is apparent from N2 that a bus driver exists and targeted Wombat. I don't see how Leelou would be a Bus Driver AND a SK.

You kind of retract your weird earlier arguement about an insane RBer. Which is probably a smart move either way.

 

At this point, I think you have noticed that the Tina arguement isn't going away and you can't ignore it anymore since people have started to call you out of weird arguements and looking like you are skimming.

 

yes you included yoruself, but as the RB. for all i know your lieing about being a RB, thats where the correction (bolded part) comes in. also your taking it as me believing the claims from all 3 of you guys, which i dont, atleast not fully enough not to question and consider other possabilities. your problem with me comes from you assuming that i believe the role claims at face value.

 

and i never said Leelou was both BD and SK. 3 of the 6 peopel Des saw are dead and not the SK, since i believe Ley was killed via an SK shot rather than a scum NK this leaves the remaining three equally possible of being the SK and lieing about their claims.

 

and again your linking me and Tina doesn't hold water as your the only one saying i've been defending her.

 

 

Starting to lash out in defense with more "what ifs" and suppositions, rather than looking at what we already know. Your usually very cool and logicial about these sort of things, but in this case you are jumping to the far fetched first. Occam's Razor - Simplest explanations are more often than not the correct ones. This is mafia, and it is good to have an open mind, but not to the point of ignoring what else is already there.

 

i have an open mind, but i'm pushing on thread what i see as the most likely answer. if you disagree with my current conclusions thats fine, but it doesn't mean i'm goign to change them; at least not until further info presents itself (mainly Des's info)

 

and i'm not normally cool and logical, i have emo meltdowns about things in these games just liek everyone else does. somethings more than others tend to get me to go from Calm to Bitchy in 3.9 seconds. besides, cool and logical, did you not see my meltdown in Rey's mafia

 

 

 

Using the skimming arguement and lashing out as a cover and distraction for having intentionally left out and ignored info to not have to paint Tina in a bad light. Now she is claiming the only reason she is lynching Leelou is because she things the role is scummy in general. Nothing about Leelou, or the fact that it seems to me Leelou caused Leyrann to be killed.

 

what info! please quote it so i can see what your talking about.

 

and to the underlined - i can't believe your saying i'm only voting Leelou because of the role; you quoted my stated reasons in this post i'm responding to BG. my reasons are tri-fold

 

1. the BD role is inherintly scummy; ie i believe its a scum role in this game

2. i dislike the assumed intentions behind the Ley/Wombat switch.*

3. competing trains on the two scummiest peole in the game, Tina & Leelou.

 

* - Wombat was the front runner in scumminess D2, imo it makes since for the scum to try to frame Wombat and kill someone else since he was a very good lynch possability a the time. by bussing Wombat and Ley, if a Finder were to have viewed Wombat they would have gotten a scum alignment on him. also, Wombat claimed to have BPV on him, which would have negated the kill; even more reason to take the easier route, frame him and get the sure NK.

 

thats the assumption that makes the most sense to me and hence the one i'm backing currently on thread.

 

 

Song is pointing out that you are ignoring vital info here. It appears as if you are skimming since you were trying to glaze over the Tina/Me arguement earlier and ignore the Leelou switch kill so you can make your vote on Leelou make sense. Also, I think you are starting to see ignoring Tina as a lost cause and so now you are ready to try and start agreeing with me and start FoSing Tina by including her here. If you are allowed to make baseless suppositions about what is happening behind the scenes like you did earlier, I have one for you:

 

/start baseless supposition

 

You asked Tina to join in on Song's skimming arguement in your QT so you would have a new reason to start FoSing her to save yourself later

 

/end baseless supposition

 

 

again, what info, please quote it since i'm obviously missing it. whats vital to you isn't necessarily vital to me honestly. which is why i'm asking you to quote it.

 

 

honestly all this seems more liek trying to get me to swtich my way of thinking and follow yoru lead rather than trying to trip me up or sniff out if i'm scum BG. it's good to have a difference of opinions in this game; your taking one assumption as truth, i'm taking another. if we're both town then one of us is on the right track. if your scum, then honestly i think i hit a nerve by questioning the assumed variables right now.

 

 

The buddying up officially starts. I think Song's vote on me makes a heck of a lot more sense than your vote on Leelou. That's all I'm sayin about this one.

 

and? just ebcause a vote doesn't make sense to you doesn't mean it doesn't make sense at all.

 

 

Back to my baseless suppostions, Tina's post feels forced to me.

 

Ignoring that, Red is way overreacting about an Emo meltdown in order to make sure people forget that she intentionally ignorned info or "skimmed" as it appears. In this manner she can claim anyone calling her skimming is scummy therefore paint suspicion on Song and Tina. But again, I think Tina and Red are teammates. So there is that.

 

wtf ever. if you think my reaction about being accused of skimming is faked then i'll gladly acept your appology for accusing my RL reasons as a lie once i'm lynched or killed or whatever. i guess its too much to consider the fact that accusing me of skimming when i'm not is one of those hot button issues thats causes calm to bitchy in 3.9 seconds, nope it must be some ploy.

 

 

and your bloody right i'm pointing the FoS at anyone using "skimming" as an excuse to pressure me. imo their doign it to try and goad me into having an emo meltdown to make my lynch easier. more so this is directed at Tina, because as scum under the spot light i'd expect them to latch onto something petty like that to get out of the lime light.

 

 

 

Starts to rebound and respond to Tina finally since it is obvious either me or her are going down. And when one of us does go down, it will be apparent who the other one is. So if I get lynched Red will have fuel some fuel on Tina. Or maybe just forgo and kill off Tina either way.

 

once again, your talking liek i'm pushing for your lynch. would you like to see me push for your lynch BG?

 

the underlined controdicts your stance on thinking me and Tina are on a team.

 

 

More buddying with me after fighting me earlier.

 

 

fighting with you earlier?? when the flamming goats milk was that? as far as i know, you and i have only been going at it today.

 

 

speaking of which, i'm not goign to turn this into another Red the bamboon ass show. if you think i'm scum BG state your case and vote me. if you've only got your feelers out on me then come back to me once you have something more to prevent a distraction from finding scum.

 

 

I'll admit, that this arguement is a little shaky, but in mafia I've gotta try and read between the lines. I think you were trying to deflect arguements from Tina onto Leelou and ignored the facts that pretty much prove Leelou is town. Then when realizing things were backfiring abandoned the plan and decided to distance from Tina.

 

I will give you one thing though, Red, if things went down as Wombat thinks and the switch happened and I wasn't RBed, I don't understand Song's track of me.

 

 

i've already explained wht i believe when down N2 behind the scenes. you think differently but that doesn't make my assumption any less than yours.

 

 

not to mention that if Wombat is correct and you weren't blocked then your block on Leelou woudl have been successful and the switch never would have happened.

[Red2111]

From my perspective:

 

I know I blocked BG so to me it´s not odd that Song saw BG target no one. I blocked him so he couldn´t have blocked anyone. Since he didn´t block Leelou she could switch Wombat and Meesh. But Wombat selfprotected so Meesh shouldn´t have died. What a mess.

 

if BG has a NA, and Song is the Tracker, then she still would have seen who he submitted as his NA choice. so no, this doesn't make sense.

 

besides theres nothing to support that Song even has a NA; atleast with you, BG, and Leelou, Des's report proves you guys do have NA's.

 

 

Song - I believe her since she called out Sakaea yesterday and saw BG target no one.

 

wrong and dangerous assumption imo. honestly it could be that Song saw it as a chance to use losing a team mate to her benefit and decided to make up a tracking role to help put doubt on claims. and seeing how her trackign is benefiting you and placing doubt on BG, it only makes me suspect both of you more.

 

 

Red is making up a lot of strange nonsense imo. To me it´s obvious that Sakaea tried to kill Wombat but happened to kill Ley. Now BG is trying to make a connection between me and Red. I don´t doubt that this could be a plot that they have planned together.

 

The biggest fos ever on Red.

Vote BG. Maybe it´s good to lynch one of us.

 

and now she links me with BG, a big OMGUS FoS at me and votes BG.

 

imo the FoS and Tina's attacks at me feel like she's just trying to afirm BG's suspicions about a link between her and myself.

 

 

 

Throwing out a question - we are 12 players left. 7 of us has claimed different roles. Would it be a good idea with a mass reveal? Would it help us or not?

 

Talya - it´s not possible to let us know Des´s result?

 

i'd say Tal can't, as her revealing Des info woudl not only cement Des as a townie but also clear up the confusion; which is basically against the unspoken Mod code of interferring with the game

 

 

I switched Red and Nol/Ley night one. I told you I thought that Nol was acting scummy which was my reasoning for switching him both nights with people I thought would be getting some NK attention. Meesh was more of a gamble tbh. We also don't know who Turin stayed with last night.

 

I really don't like how Red is trying to muddy the water. I need to think things over just a bit more to try to get them all straight in my head before voting.

 

Tina - normally I'm against mass reveals, but there are already so many roles out in the open. I'm still leery of a mass reveal, especially with someone on my scum list suggesting it.

 

 

i'm not trying to muddy the water, just clarifying my thinking.