[Light Vs Shadow] - HEROES AND VILLIANS MAFIA

[hazelkrs1]

in other news, i dislike that you revealed everyone who visited him, now the scum have a nice little selection of people with powers to choose from. but i'm glad you picked who Hoof targetted *nods*

 

also, if Tina is a Mafia RBer, she wouldn't be targetting her own team mate. and if she is the RBer then Wombats kill wouldn't have gone through; so that makes absolutley no sense.

 

I didn't want to selectively reveal who visited because if my instincts were wrong we could have ended up trying to lynch a healer or some other town power role.

 

This way we'll get much more information out in the open and can begin adding up all of their stories and see who's lying.

 

I honestly have no idea what you're saying about the whole RB'er thing. I suspect Tina because of her other comments and I doubt that her and Wombat are scum teammates, it's probably one or the other

 

 

Since Blackhoof was the hider and visited wombat, but ended up dead, we could take this to mean wombat is mafia, but there are other possibilities I'll admit. Wombat could have been swapped with Leyrann with a bus driver, which would explain why Ley might have ended up dying. It seems someone else on that list is most likely a vig, or a SK. One of them is probably a bus driver, one of them I won't say what they do but I think I have a good idea because I think they used their NA on me last night, one probably.... I dunno my brain's starting to hurt. Uhm, one I would guess is prob some kind of investigative role... okay I'm done trying to figure out what all these people may do. We need some answers from them though.

 

Hooray for Despo the mega-watcher!

 

Problem though is once a Hider is in hiding for the night they are essentially untargetable. Any night action targeted at them fails and if he visted Wombat and died then that's enough for me to Vote Wombat

 

Unless it becomes more clear that Ley was taken out by a vig or SK, I find it more likely that him and Wombat we're swapped, which tells me that Wombat is probably town for now.

 

I could be missing something though, please let me know.

[Red2111]

okay now i'm confused.

 

 

by the wiki, any action directed at the Hider will fail. also, per wiki, the Hider only dies if they hide behind someojen anti-town. hence Hoof hiding behind Wombat = Wombat being scum.

 

 

what i'm not following is this conclusion that Wombat was bussed because Ley ended up dead. Leys death isn't connected to the actions of a hider, as the hider doesn't act liek a bomb and take the scum with them; it's a passive death.

 

 

all we know, taking your list at face value, is:

 

- 2nd killing party via Ley's death (either Vig, 2nd scum group or SK)

- Hoof hid behind Wombat and is dead

- Tina is supporting your claim by confirming she did visit Wombat.

 

 

also, if you believe Wombat was bussed, then those people didn't visit Wombat; which is less likely since Tina confirms she did visit Wombat.

 

 

errgo, we lynch Wombat.

[hazelkrs1]

Someone please answer the issue I've raised, if I'm not thinking clearly about this then I need to be shown the light. Otherwise I find this quick train on Wombat disconcerting, it kind of smells like it could be Tina's teammates coming out to throw me and others off the trail quickly

[Pantsonfire]

I'll be honest I have the sense that Wombt is town as he claims..... I know I was voting for him yesterday but his blunt, strait forward claim of town may have me after tossing it over in my head last night.

Right now I'm much more suspicious of Tina. Correct me if I am wrong but was she not an active antagonist in the lynching of Maw and Poet?

[hazelkrs1]

Red you're not understanding what I'm saying. I think Hoof died as a result of hiding with Leyrann. I don't think he killed Leyrann, I think a third party killer from that list of mine targeted Wombat but their kill was bussed to Leyrann, which killed him. I think any results anyone got from "viewing", or whatever they might have done, Wombat may be completely wrong because they were actually viewing Leyrann

[hazelkrs1]

In other words, I think Wombat and Leyrann were bussed by mafia, and someone tried killing Wombat, someone tried blocking him perhaps, and someone tried investigating him, and two other people tried something else on him, but everything was diverted to Leyrann. Of course there's the possibility my viewings would have been bussed as well, but I find that highly unlikely because that would mean Wombat was bussed with someone else that a ton of others viewed.

 

Like I said, this is making my brain hurt

[Tiinker]

in other news, i dislike that you revealed everyone who visited him, now the scum have a nice little selection of people with powers to choose from. but i'm glad you picked who Hoof targetted *nods*

 

also, if Tina is a Mafia RBer, she wouldn't be targetting her own team mate. and if she is the RBer then Wombats kill wouldn't have gone through; so that makes absolutley no sense.

 

I didn't want to selectively reveal who visited because if my instincts were wrong we could have ended up trying to lynch a healer or some other town power role.

 

This way we'll get much more information out in the open and can begin adding up all of their stories and see who's lying.

 

I honestly have no idea what you're saying about the whole RB'er thing. I suspect Tina because of her other comments and I doubt that her and Wombat are scum teammates, it's probably one or the other

 

 

Since Blackhoof was the hider and visited wombat, but ended up dead, we could take this to mean wombat is mafia, but there are other possibilities I'll admit. Wombat could have been swapped with Leyrann with a bus driver, which would explain why Ley might have ended up dying. It seems someone else on that list is most likely a vig, or a SK. One of them is probably a bus driver, one of them I won't say what they do but I think I have a good idea because I think they used their NA on me last night, one probably.... I dunno my brain's starting to hurt. Uhm, one I would guess is prob some kind of investigative role... okay I'm done trying to figure out what all these people may do. We need some answers from them though.

 

Hooray for Despo the mega-watcher!

 

Problem though is once a Hider is in hiding for the night they are essentially untargetable. Any night action targeted at them fails and if he visted Wombat and died then that's enough for me to Vote Wombat

 

Unless it becomes more clear that Ley was taken out by a vig or SK, I find it more likely that him and Wombat we're swapped, which tells me that Wombat is probably town for now.

 

I could be missing something though, please let me know.

 

I'd think the possibility that him and Ley were swapped is unlikely. It just seems too risky especially with the amount of heat Wombat was gathering and the fact that the finder is dead makes it a lot less of an attractive choice. Doesn't float my boat but it's possible.

[Red2111]

short answer Des. If wombat was bussed then your list is of people who targeted Wombat and got re-directed rather than got results on Wombat.

 

 

either your truely confused or your scum tryign to muddle the water; you realize the possability of a busser and are arguing that point, giving Wombat a way to wiggle out if there isn't a busser. i dislike this greatly and would still prefer to lynch wombat based on the fact i think it's unlikely he was bussed.

 

it also gives us the most info. i'm not saying a rushed lynch, i'd like pressure on other people too (especially from that list) but as of right now, i'm good with Wombat.

 

 

i hate WIFOM and his lynch will settle this mess rather nicely.

[Niniel]

It will be good to hear from Wombat. I´m too tired to think right now. Wombat, please answer my previous questions when you get here. I´m going to bed. See you tomorrow.

[Tiinker]

In other words, I think Wombat and Leyrann were bussed by mafia, and someone tried killing Wombat, someone tried blocking him perhaps, and someone tried investigating him, and two other people tried something else on him, but everything was diverted to Leyrann. Of course there's the possibility my viewings would have been bussed as well, but I find that highly unlikely because that would mean Wombat was bussed with someone else that a ton of others viewed.

 

Like I said, this is making my brain hurt

 

Not sure what you mean here. If you targeted Wombat then your viewings would've been swapped like all the other NA's.

[Turin Turambar]

Des are you really asking for everyone who visited Wombat to role reveal? That seems like a big request. And frankly not pro-town.

[Pantsonfire]

I think you may have chosen the most popular player to watch overnight Des. Is it not possible that the mafia tried to kill Wobat?

It the healer were to be focusing on you, the mafia think that they can get in and take out wombat. Then their attack was 'bussed' to Ley killing both him and Hoof in one.

 

 

 

[Tiinker]

Des are you really asking for everyone who visited Wombat to role reveal? That seems like a big request. And frankly not pro-town.

 

Agreed.

[Red2111]

In other words, I think Wombat and Leyrann were bussed by mafia, and someone tried killing Wombat, someone tried blocking him perhaps, and someone tried investigating him, and two other people tried something else on him, but everything was diverted to Leyrann. Of course there's the possibility my viewings would have been bussed as well, but I find that highly unlikely because that would mean Wombat was bussed with someone else that a ton of others viewed.

 

Like I said, this is making my brain hurt

 

 

if Wombat was targetted by a Bus Driver then you would have been bussed as well.

 

this is how a bus drive works

 

 

Sally is targeted by Jim, Joe and Shawn

 

David is targetd by Jim, Alan and Pete

 

 

Jim is the Bus Driver. this means that Alan & Petes night actions hit Sally and Joe & Shawns night actions hit David.

 

lets say Joe is a Watcher. Joe would assume Jim and Shawn's night actions effected Sally, but really they effected David.

 

 

 

it's a bit complicated and easier to understand once you've had the role or modded it, but thats the simplest way i can explain it.

 

 

does that help?

[Tiinker]

I think you may have chosen the most popular player to watch overnight Des. Is it not possible that the mafia tried to kill Wobat?

It the healer were to be focusing on you, the mafia think that they can get in and take out wombat. Then their attack was 'bussed' to Ley killing both him and Hoof in one.

 

Are you saying that the mafia switched Wombat and Ley and then killed their own player? Or is it late and I'm mis-reading..

 

Just going to point out that the Bus Driver doesn't always have to be anti-town.

[Pantsonfire]

Come to think of it Des you didnt respond to my query yesterday (did you? Correct me if I am wrong).

 

I asked both you and wombat (rather pointedly I might add) if you were really town or if you were just cruising by on the implications of your role?

[hazelkrs1]

short answer Des. If wombat was bussed then your list is of people who targeted Wombat and got re-directed rather than got results on Wombat.

 

Exactly! That's what I'm thinking might have happened

 

either your truely confused or your scum tryign to muddle the water; you realize the possability of a busser and are arguing that point, giving Wombat a way to wiggle out if there isn't a busser. i dislike this greatly and would still prefer to lynch wombat based on the fact i think it's unlikely he was bussed.

 

it also gives us the most info. i'm not saying a rushed lynch, i'd like pressure on other people too (especially from that list) but as of right now, i'm good with Wombat.

 

 

i hate WIFOM and his lynch will settle this mess rather nicely.

 

I guess you might be right, a coroner report on him might solve a lot of these WIFOM's. That being said, if this doesn't work out I'm going to be wary of all those pushing his lynch right now. But for the moment, I'll follow along.

 

Unvote, Vote Wombat.

 

And honestly, there is a very good chance I might be confused, I mean look at that list! There's piles of WIFOM to dissect through there.

 

It will be good to hear from Wombat. I´m too tired to think right now. Wombat, please answer my previous questions when you get here. I´m going to bed. See you tomorrow.

 

I would still rather you answer my question first Tina, I think you're being evasive. And now you're saying you're going to bed. I'm extremely wary of you right now

 

Des are you really asking for everyone who visited Wombat to role reveal? That seems like a big request. And frankly not pro-town.

 

Honestly in this situation it can help out town a lot. If we get everything about what happened last night out in the open, we have a better chance at possibly bagging multiple scum from this in the end. There are risks with this yes, but getting stories from everyone will also make this mess much more clear

[Red2111]

your thinking way to much about this Des, honestly the simplest explination is the easiest. if anything you've made it harder for Wombat to convince people he's innocent if he was bussed.

 

 

aside form the fact that theres nothing to suggest theres a busser in this game and Wombats corner report will prove if there is one in this game or not. i'll bite that theres a RBer since your na was blocked N1, but your scenario assumes way too much.

[Pantsonfire]

1321997736[/url]' post='2047117']

1321997482[/url]' post='2047106']

I think you may have chosen the most popular player to watch overnight Des. Is it not possible that the mafia tried to kill Wobat?

It the healer were to be focusing on you, the mafia think that they can get in and take out wombat. Then their attack was 'bussed' to Ley killing both him and Hoof in one.

 

Are you saying that the mafia switched Wombat and Ley and then killed their own player? Or is it late and I'm mis-reading..

 

Just going to point out that the Bus Driver doesn't always have to be anti-town.

 

 

 

Yes that was what I was trying to say. Lol all these roles and actions get twisted in the telling

[Pantsonfire]

Lol Tina did say it was complicated to sort out

[Pantsonfire]

*Talya

[Tiinker]

 

Des are you really asking for everyone who visited Wombat to role reveal? That seems like a big request. And frankly not pro-town.

 

Honestly in this situation it can help out town a lot. If we get everything about what happened last night out in the open, we have a better chance at possibly bagging multiple scum from this in the end. There are risks with this yes, but getting stories from everyone will also make this mess much more clear

 

We still are completely in the dark about what kind of roles are in the game. Personally, I really wouldn't want a mass reveal. Keep them under your eye but I wouldn't question it unless it was really necessary cuz it just doesn't seem worth it right now.

[Tiinker]

1321997736[/url]' post='2047117']

1321997482[/url]' post='2047106']

I think you may have chosen the most popular player to watch overnight Des. Is it not possible that the mafia tried to kill Wobat?

It the healer were to be focusing on you, the mafia think that they can get in and take out wombat. Then their attack was 'bussed' to Ley killing both him and Hoof in one.

 

Are you saying that the mafia switched Wombat and Ley and then killed their own player? Or is it late and I'm mis-reading..

 

Just going to point out that the Bus Driver doesn't always have to be anti-town.

 

 

 

Yes that was what I was trying to say. Lol all these roles and actions get twisted in the telling

 

Any why exactly would they do that? :p

[Pantsonfire]

I agree with Tiinker. Looks for your hints and tips that people might drop, but a mass reveal opens us up to scum working their way into a circle of trust

[hazelkrs1]

In other words, I think Wombat and Leyrann were bussed by mafia, and someone tried killing Wombat, someone tried blocking him perhaps, and someone tried investigating him, and two other people tried something else on him, but everything was diverted to Leyrann. Of course there's the possibility my viewings would have been bussed as well, but I find that highly unlikely because that would mean Wombat was bussed with someone else that a ton of others viewed.

 

Like I said, this is making my brain hurt

 

Not sure what you mean here. If you targeted Wombat then your viewings would've been swapped like all the other NA's.

 

Not necessarily. That's kind of metagaming the mod, it depends how Talya processed the NA's. It's possible she processed mine before the bus which allowed me to see who all truly targeted Wombat instead of Leyrann. The fact that no one on my list (Tina and Turin that I can remember right now) have denied that they targeted Wombat, this tells me that this might be possible.

 

In other words, I think Wombat and Leyrann were bussed by mafia, and someone tried killing Wombat, someone tried blocking him perhaps, and someone tried investigating him, and two other people tried something else on him, but everything was diverted to Leyrann. Of course there's the possibility my viewings would have been bussed as well, but I find that highly unlikely because that would mean Wombat was bussed with someone else that a ton of others viewed.

 

Like I said, this is making my brain hurt

 

 

if Wombat was targetted by a Bus Driver then you would have been bussed as well.

 

this is how a bus drive works

 

 

Sally is targeted by Jim, Joe and Shawn

 

David is targetd by Jim, Alan and Pete

 

 

Jim is the Bus Driver. this means that Alan & Petes night actions hit Sally and Joe & Shawns night actions hit David.

 

lets say Joe is a Watcher. Joe would assume Jim and Shawn's night actions effected Sally, but really they effected David.

 

 

 

it's a bit complicated and easier to understand once you've had the role or modded it, but thats the simplest way i can explain it.

 

 

does that help?

 

I knew about that, see my response to Tiink above. We don't know how Talya processed the NA's, she might have processed mine before the bus drivers. Honestly I might be making this issue more complicated by assuming their to be a bus driver, but I think this is likely because Leyrann ended up dead. The bus driver scenario works with this very cleanly. Once again, no one on my list has stated so far that they DIDN'T target Wombat.

 

Come to think of it Des you didnt respond to my query yesterday (did you? Correct me if I am wrong).

 

I asked both you and wombat (rather pointedly I might add) if you were really town or if you were just cruising by on the implications of your role?

 

I'm town.

 

your thinking way to much about this Des, honestly the simplest explination is the easiest. if anything you've made it harder for Wombat to convince people he's innocent if he was bussed.

 

 

aside form the fact that theres nothing to suggest theres a busser in this game and Wombats corner report will prove if there is one in this game or not. i'll bite that theres a RBer since your na was blocked N1, but your scenario assumes way too much.

 

You might be right, and it does also seem that a coroner report on Wombat might honestly make this situation a lot more clear, which is why I voted him. That being said, if he flips town you and several others will be getting some attention from me