Rand and Moridin vissions

[ONeill]

We all know that Moridin can see through Rands eyes, and it's most likely because of when their balefire connected.

 

But can Rand see through Moridins eyes??????? Maybe all Rand needs is practice and he'll be able to do it. Then he could find out about the plans that are being made on the dark side.

[RobertAlexWillis]

Moridin can't see through Rand's eyes, he can see Rand, or perhaps more accurately, is aware of Rand. Its an important difference, and yes, Rand can see/sense Moridin in a like fashion. The effect on one is apparently mirrored in the other, including the nausea.

 

Read Knife of Dreams chapter 18, News for the Dragon, and chapter 21 Within the Stone, for fairly detailed descriptions.

[Taishar Manetheren]

I think its more annoying to both of them, and they would rather get rid of it then use it to spy on each other...

[ONeill]

Where in KoD does it say that Moridin gets nausea as well?

 

Would it mean if Moridin had the nausea effect as well, that it would only effect him when he uses the True Power? Or is it with the One Power?

 

But whenever we see Moridin he always seems to be fine.

[Luckers]

When Rand percieves Moridin, he looks angry and ill, like he is about to sick up.

 

It has been suggested that the reason Moridin has given up using saidin at all is because it causes him the same nausia it does Rand. Prior to the incident Moridin and ishamael did still use saidin, but since he only uses the true power.

[dimmu666]

if effect on one has the same effect on the other...doesn't that mean they're like totally connected? So if Rand dies, Moridin dies? ummm thats kinda messed then yeah? Maybe Moridin has to be protected lol that would be some messed up plot twist. "protect Moridin at all costs, thats an order! i don't care if hes killing all of you!"

[RobertAlexWillis]

Where in KoD does it say that Moridin gets nausea as well?

 

Would it mean if Moridin had the nausea effect as well, that it would only effect him when he uses the True Power? Or is it with the One Power?

 

But whenever we see Moridin he always seems to be fine.

 

Chapter 21, Within the Stone, p.449 in the hardback

 

(Rand POV)

 

The face of the man from Shadar Logoth floated in his head for a moment. He looked furious. And near to sicking up. Without any doubt he was aware of Rand in that moment, and Rand of him.

(Emphasis in original)

 

So, Luckers nailed it.

 

if effect on one has the same effect on the other...doesn't that mean they're like totally connected? So if Rand dies, Moridin dies? ummm thats kinda messed then yeah? Maybe Moridin has to be protected lol that would be some messed up plot twist. "protect Moridin at all costs, thats an order! i don't care if hes killing all of you!"

 

Actually, as Luckers has also said in another thread, you may have just hit on one reason that Moridin instructs the Forsaken not to mess with Rand, but to go ahead and kill Mat and Perrin. Moridin is probably worried about what will happen to him now if Rand dies.

[Just another pawn]

This has probably been dealt with somewhere but, just as a side note, I've always assumed that Min's vision about Rand and another man touching and becoming one was Rand and LTT, could'nt it have been a vision of Rand and Moridin instead? Unfortunately I don't have the books handy so I can't see whether Min thought this was a good thing or a bad thing...

[RobertAlexWillis]

Yep, its been talked about. There is a theory that they actually switch bodies.

[menzarra]

Yep' date=' its been talked about. There is a theory that they actually switch bodies.[/quote']

 

I still dont believe this theory. The DO gives out new bodies, he has domain over the dead. The DO is not about to give the DR a new form to battle him. I agree there is a connection between Mor and Rand, but i think the nausea comes from something much deeper. It started when their balefire's touched, we know rand was using Saidin, but what moridin using the True Source or saidin when this happened? Either way something changed in them, they did become connected in a fashion. But there is a 3rd personality at play here as well. LTT! I think their shared problems with saidin stems from LTT. The veiwing of Min's showed 2 people mergin into one. I find it more likely that a final battle for Rands body will take place at the start of MoL. He's just lost his hand, he going to be most likely in shock. Probably fall into a coma of sorts. While in the coma he'll do "battle" with LTT for his soul. We've seen Rand use LTT's memories/knowledge many many times before. In a way its almost as if Rand has to learn to surrender for this to happen. As hard as he's made himself that will be a true test. Perhaps thats what Cadu will teach all the asha'men. Well that and manners. :) Wether one will win and the other looses or the 2 become one will be seen. To me that is a more believeable solution than Moridin and Rand switching places.

[Luckers]

Thats not actually true. We have seen many forces influence the soul in a body. Dreamwalkers souls leave their bodies all the time, which we know from when Perrin was hunting for Faile. Mordeth's soul was able to exist without a body for thousands of year, then push itself into a body that was not its own--and techinically should have been able to displace Fain. Machin Shin and Draghkar both remove and consume souls. Dreamwalkers can pull other peoples souls into tel'aran'rhiod. The hedgehog shows that channelers can pull peoples souls out of their bodies.

 

So in conclusion, no, this isn't merely the province of the Dark One... in point of fact it seems almost easy.

[Wise One]

It is possible Moridin doesn't want Rand dead because of the affect on himself, but I find it doubtful. Moridin/Ishamael have always been much, much more into the philosophy of the dark/light then any other, and Ishamael saw the fight between light and darkness as being embodied by his conflict with Rand. The way I see it, the story has always been a buildup to Moridin vs Rand, right from Ishamael's parting words to Lews Therin before the crazy suicide. That's why Moridin hasn't killed Rand yet, he is waiting for the right time to battle him himself. I also really dislike the body-swapping theories, mostly because I prefer the LTT theories. A madman can't know things from previous lives unless they are actually speaking to him!