How and Why the Children of the Light could be a good organization

[balefired-ed2]

I am a free man, Aes Sedai. I am no Aes Sedai meat.

 

This, one of my favorite quotes from the entire series, is the foundation of my belief.

 

The current third age incarnation of Aes Sedai is a terrible mockery and corruption of its second age namesake. From what we have seen, Aes Sedai in the second age were very powerful. However, they derived their power from support garnered from the populace because of the great service to society that they provided.

 

The third age so called Aes Sedai do not derive their significant influence from the service that they provide others; rather, it is an implied threat based on a genetic predisposition that they have the ability to physically force others to submit. This is something that is even present within the very power structure of the White Tower itself, where the physical ability to do violence is the basis for advancement over experience and competence in a given task! To my mind, this is something that is extremely unacceptable.

 

The Children of the Light, in their pre-Galad form, are just as terrible an organization as the White Tower, deciding that an ability that some have is reason for immediate execution.

 

However, with Galad now in charge, the Children seem to have changed their view that channeling in and of itself in not necessarily evil. This is a very good thing and a regression to the original purpose of the Children: fighting against the Shadow.

 

Just because the Children are/were wrong about channelers being inherently evil does not mean that they were wrong about Aes Sedai abusing power.

 

This is where I believe that the Children could be a great organization. Just as the media is supposed to be a watchdog on the government and alert the populace to government misdeeds is needed, so to is some organization needed to check the power of channelers to influence and bully non-channelers into conforming to their whim. As a highly organized, disciplined, and international organization with now no ties to any national governing body, the Children could be a very effective group with the dedicated purpose of preventing channelers from limiting the freedom of non-channelers through the implied threat of force.

 

What do you think?

[Xcorpyo001]

Since they seem to hate the AS so much, I can't understand why they try to emulate them.

If the commanders will stop naming all their soldiers 'Child X', they will advance a lot in my book.

I swear, the 18 years old 'Mother' telling her 400 years old 'daughter' to fetch her slippers is not enough, RJ had to create a male order in which all the lower ranks have Child besides their name.

 

The AS think they have the right to boss around anyone because they can use the OP and they are under the misguided impression they are the only ones capable to decide what is best for the world.

The Children think they have the right to boss around anyone because...well, just because.

 

The children and daughters should take some rooms and, hmmm, deal with their differences. And I won't mind if they remain in those rooms for a couple of centuries, if not more.

[damandred]

I think the intentions of the AS earlier in the age were pure, and after all they had done a lot of good in the world, stopping war and preserving history. Their big mistakes like trying to manipulate Hawkwing and letting Manetheran fall seems to all spring from the red Ajah, plus the fact that they've had DF's as members for 2 thousand years, but so has the Whitcloaks I would say its likely the Questioners in there currant form was the work of DF's.

The origanal post for this thread said the Whitecloaks would be a good check on AS power yes maybe but they themselves are a law onto themselves and are answerable to no-one.

[Mandro]

Well, reason #1, is that Galad is alwasy honorable, and #2, they barely exist anymore.

[balefired-ed2]

I think the intentions of the AS earlier in the age were pure, and after all they had done a lot of good in the world, stopping war and preserving history. Their big mistakes like trying to manipulate Hawkwing and letting Manetheran fall seems to all spring from the red Ajah, plus the fact that they've had DF's as members for 2 thousand years, but so has the Whitcloaks I would say its likely the Questioners in there currant form was the work of DF's.

The origanal post for this thread said the Whitecloaks would be a good check on AS power yes maybe but they themselves are a law onto themselves and are answerable to no-one.

 

 

In response to what has been bolded, what other organization would that apply to?

[damandred]

I think the intentions of the AS earlier in the age were pure, and after all they had done a lot of good in the world, stopping war and preserving history. Their big mistakes like trying to manipulate Hawkwing and letting Manetheran fall seems to all spring from the red Ajah, plus the fact that they've had DF's as members for 2 thousand years, but so has the Whitcloaks I would say its likely the Questioners in there currant form was the work of DF's.

The origanal post for this thread said the Whitecloaks would be a good check on AS power yes maybe but they themselves are a law onto themselves and are answerable to no-one.

 

 

In response to what has been bolded, what other organization would that apply to?

 

Not sure if I am understanding what you mean but if you mean AS, they rule Tar Valon and as such are to a degree answerable to their people at least as much as most Randland rulers.

[Xcorpyo001]

I think the intentions of the AS earlier in the age were pure, and after all they had done a lot of good in the world, stopping war and preserving history. Their big mistakes like trying to manipulate Hawkwing and letting Manetheran fall seems to all spring from the red Ajah, plus the fact that they've had DF's as members for 2 thousand years, but so has the Whitcloaks I would say its likely the Questioners in there currant form was the work of DF's.

The origanal post for this thread said the Whitecloaks would be a good check on AS power yes maybe but they themselves are a law onto themselves and are answerable to no-one.

 

 

In response to what has been bolded, what other organization would that apply to?

 

Not sure if I am understanding what you mean but if you mean AS, they rule Tar Valon and as such are to a degree answerable to their people at least as much as most Randland rulers.

 

Huh?

So if people in Tar Valon suddenly decide that the AS should leave the city and stop bossing them around, they will do it?

Or the citizens in TV have anything to say in the way AS manage the city and their politics?

Or that the most important people of Tar Valon(nobles from other lands) can chose the Amyrlin/Sitters?

Or that the WT does everything they can to please and serve the interests of the good citizens of Tar Valon?

Every sister receives 1000 gold every year. Since those are mainly from the earnings of the city, does every other citizen of Tar Valon receives money as well?

[damandred]

Who knows what would happen if the people of TV rebelled. But why should they? They live in the greatest city in the world the most prosperous, the streets are clean and there's no crime, everything iv read about the people of TV points towards a deep respect for AS and why not it must be handy if you get sick and the WT's just down the road, better than the NHS. Are the people of Amadicia so lucky?

[Xcorpyo001]

Who knows what would happen if the people of TV rebelled. But why should they? They live in the greatest city in the world the most prosperous, the streets are clean and there's no crime, everything iv read about the people of TV points towards a deep respect for AS and why not it must be handy if you get sick and the WT's just down the road, better than the NHS. Are the people of Amadicia so lucky?

 

They are not free of crime, and only because the ones that break the law have on trip to the torture chair and know better than to do it again.

The streets were cleaned, until the Elaida regime.

The Seachan also have almost no crime(because the punishment is beheading for most crimes and slavery for the rest), very clean streets, no beggars, etc.

Yes, there is respect, but there is also fear. Only the people who really really want something from an AS are entering the WT grounds.

They have the protection of the WT, especially against the shadowspawn, but they are not in control of the city, the AS are.

[FarShainMael]

Well, reason #1, is that Galad is alwasy honorable, and #2, they barely exist anymore.

 

If anyone can restore the CotL to Mantelar's original conception (which we haven't seen, but Galad thinks it makes sense and he always does the right thing) then it's Galad. And I have no doubt that part of that restoration will be to make them somehow accountable to the poeple they are to guard against DFs. As with the AS, someone has to watch the watchers.

[Suttree]

The third age so called Aes Sedai do not derive their significant influence from the service that they provide others; rather, it is an implied threat based on a genetic predisposition that they have the ability to physically force others to submit.

 

Because standing against the Shadow for three thousand years and saving the world(Trolloc Wars) isn't a service to society? On top of that Yellows use their eyes and ears to find outbreaks of disease and send sisters to deal, Blues find causes, Greens "fierce fighters" of Shadowspawn etc. Every Sisters room we have seen in the WT contains mementos of a long life spent adventuring around the world. It is folly to think that just because the author didn't commit on screen time to this, it isn't happening.

 

Have hey fallen far? Yes of course, the whole world has and that is what RJ is trying to describe. To imply though they are no longer a force for good is quite false.

 

This is a very good thing and a regression to the original purpose of the Children: fighting against the Shadow.

 

The Whitecloacks originally were not a military organization. They were preachers working to expose DFs. As to your idea, all the channeling groups will balance each other out post TG. Not sure how the WCs could enforce or protect anything.

 

I think the intentions of the AS earlier in the age were pure, and after all they had done a lot of good in the world, stopping war and preserving history. Their big mistakes like trying to manipulate Hawkwing and letting Manetheran fall seems to all spring from the red Ajah, plus the fact that they've had DF's as members for 2 thousand years, but so has the Whitcloaks I would say its likely the Questioners in there currant form was the work of DF's.

The origanal post for this thread said the Whitecloaks would be a good check on AS power yes maybe but they themselves are a law onto themselves and are answerable to no-one.

 

 

In response to what has been bolded, what other organization would that apply to?

 

Not sure if I am understanding what you mean but if you mean AS, they rule Tar Valon and as such are to a degree answerable to their people at least as much as most Randland rulers.

 

He was referring to the Whitecloaks.

 

They are not free of crime, and only because the ones that break the law have on trip to the torture chair and know better than to do it again.

The streets were cleaned, until the Elaida regime.

The Seachan also have almost no crime(because the punishment is beheading for most crimes and slavery for the rest), very clean streets, no beggars, etc.

Yes, there is respect, but there is also fear. Only the people who really really want something from an AS are entering the WT grounds.

They have the protection of the WT, especially against the shadowspawn, but they are not in control of the city, the AS are.

 

BWB

The city of Tar Valon is governed by a council of Aes Sedai chosen by the Hall of the Tower. This council oversees a staff of non-Aes Sedai clerks and bureaucrats that actually handles the day-to-day administration of the city. This job is complicated by the fact that Tar Valon and its White Tower attract people of all countries and all ranks. They cross the great Ogier-built bridges to the city on matters ranging from state visits to pilgrimages, or to conclude treaties or business deals. Though the island is only three or four miles across, with much of the land given over to parks and gardens, representatives of almost every race and country of the land live and work within its walls.

 

Tar Valon's centralized location between the Borderlands of the north and the kingdoms of the southeast and west make it ideal for trade; the River Erinin allows water-borne traffic, while the great bridges give land caravans easy access to many major roadways.

 

Since Tar Valon was first established, in 98 AB, the city has never fallen to invaders, and has only rarely suffered an attack.

 

Look the facts in the books is that TV is one of the most prosperous cities in Randland with a very high quality of life. Clean streets, low crime, free healthcare etc. It isn't a police state like in Seanchan. You can't be murdered for looking at the Empress, you won't be kidnapped in the middle of the night by seekers, you can't be bought and sold like an animal and your twelve your old daughter won't be turned into something sub human if she has a certain gene. In addition you don't have to deal with frequent revolts and civil unrest because the various peoples are so discontent. It's laughable to even imply similarities.

[David Selig]

The can't be a balance because they are way weaker in any way than the Aes Sedai. The Aes Sedai can wipe out the remnants of the Whitecloacks without breaking a sweat. They don't even have to channel, sending half the Tower Guard to do it would be more than enough. Even putting that aside, the economical power and the political influence of the Aes Sedai is currently way bigger than that of the Whitecloaks, who have lost their base and the country they used to rule in practice.

 

For all theuir faults, the Aes Sedai are much better than the Whitecloaks with their policies of torturing and hanging people without any evidence, chasing them because they looked funny at them, or slaughtering whole villages as part of a plan to gain political capital and more power.

[cookiecrisp]

I think they're going to go to Mayene, where they should stay forever, and reform.

[NetSlider]

Middle East 1071AD or around that time, if you follow my train of thought

[balefired-ed2]

The third age so called Aes Sedai do not derive their significant influence from the service that they provide others; rather, it is an implied threat based on a genetic predisposition that they have the ability to physically force others to submit.

 

Because standing against the Shadow for three thousand years and saving the world(Trolloc Wars) isn't a service to society? On top of that Yellows use their eyes and ears to find outbreaks of disease and send sisters to deal, Blues find causes, Greens "fierce fighters" of Shadowspawn etc. Every Sisters room we have seen in the WT contains mementos of a long life spent adventuring around the world. It is folly to think that just because the author didn't commit on screen time to this, it isn't happening.

 

Have hey fallen far? Yes of course, the whole world has and that is what RJ is trying to describe. To imply though they are no longer a force for good is quite false.

 

If by saving the world you mean allowing multiple countries to fail and fall due to internal politicking, yes, I agree with you. Yellows outright fail in their cause by having the majority of their sisters stationed in Tar Valon instead of population centers across the continent for fast response, Greens fail in their cause by not having the majority of their forces stationed along the blight border to support the Borderlanders (who by far are a far more effective force for good than the tower), Browns fail their cause by not disseminating the knowledge of the tower, Whites. . .why?, and "finding causes" at this point in the series still means absolutely jack to me. The only ajah that seems to succeed in their stated goal for the most part is the Red.

 

Also, I am not implying that the Tower is not a force for good. I am outright stating that they abuse the fact that they have abilities above and beyond those of the normal person to enforce their goals and vision of the world upon other cultures. That is undeniable.

This is a very good thing and a regression to the original purpose of the Children: fighting against the Shadow.

 

The Whitecloacks originally were not a military organization. They were preachers working to expose DFs. As to your idea, all the channeling groups will balance each other out post TG. Not sure how the WCs could enforce or protect anything.

 

I think you have misunderstood me here. In this vision/wild speculation, Whitecloaks aren't enforcing anything; they are watching and informing a non-channeling populace to abuses by channelers. Just because the media is unable to fight any government physically does not change the fact that they can inform the populace of governmental abuses. Besides, the AM are going to balance against the AS, with still no representation for the non-channelers.

 

I think the intentions of the AS earlier in the age were pure, and after all they had done a lot of good in the world, stopping war and preserving history. Their big mistakes like trying to manipulate Hawkwing and letting Manetheran fall seems to all spring from the red Ajah, plus the fact that they've had DF's as members for 2 thousand years, but so has the Whitcloaks I would say its likely the Questioners in there currant form was the work of DF's.

The origanal post for this thread said the Whitecloaks would be a good check on AS power yes maybe but they themselves are a law onto themselves and are answerable to no-one.

 

 

In response to what has been bolded, what other organization would that apply to?

 

Not sure if I am understanding what you mean but if you mean AS, they rule Tar Valon and as such are to a degree answerable to their people at least as much as most Randland rulers.

 

He was referring to the Whitecloaks.

 

Referring to the Tower.

They are not free of crime, and only because the ones that break the law have on trip to the torture chair and know better than to do it again.

The streets were cleaned, until the Elaida regime.

The Seachan also have almost no crime(because the punishment is beheading for most crimes and slavery for the rest), very clean streets, no beggars, etc.

Yes, there is respect, but there is also fear. Only the people who really really want something from an AS are entering the WT grounds.

They have the protection of the WT, especially against the shadowspawn, but they are not in control of the city, the AS are.

 

BWB

The city of Tar Valon is governed by a council of Aes Sedai chosen by the Hall of the Tower. This council oversees a staff of non-Aes Sedai clerks and bureaucrats that actually handles the day-to-day administration of the city. This job is complicated by the fact that Tar Valon and its White Tower attract people of all countries and all ranks. They cross the great Ogier-built bridges to the city on matters ranging from state visits to pilgrimages, or to conclude treaties or business deals. Though the island is only three or four miles across, with much of the land given over to parks and gardens, representatives of almost every race and country of the land live and work within its walls.

 

Tar Valon's centralized location between the Borderlands of the north and the kingdoms of the southeast and west make it ideal for trade; the River Erinin allows water-borne traffic, while the great bridges give land caravans easy access to many major roadways.

 

Since Tar Valon was first established, in 98 AB, the city has never fallen to invaders, and has only rarely suffered an attack.

 

Look the facts in the books is that TV is one of the most prosperous cities in Randland with a very high quality of life. Clean streets, low crime, free healthcare etc. It isn't a police state like in Seanchan. You can't be murdered for looking at the Empress, you won't be kidnapped in the middle of the night by seekers, you can't be bought and sold like an animal and your twelve your old daughter won't be turned into something sub human if she has a certain gene. In addition you don't have to deal with frequent revolts and civil unrest because the various peoples are so discontent. It's laughable to even imply similarities.

 

Not a police state, correct, but a state in which all matters are effectively decided by those born with a genetic predisposition over those who don't. The fact that with all the problems in the world construction on a new palace was a high priority with the say so of just one person is telling.

 

All responses in bold.

[David Selig]

How is that different from any other country in Randland? Only elsewhere instead of channelling genes being the requirement, you have to be born in a family belonging to the high nobility.

[balefired-ed2]

How is that different from any other country in Randland? Only elsewhere instead of channelling genes being the requirement, you have to be born in a family belonging to the high nobility.

 

I am definitely not denying the fact that the nations in Randland are unfairly run. The least distasteful government I have seen so far is pre-TSR Two Rivers.

[Suttree]

If by saving the world you mean allowing multiple countries to fail and fall due to internal politicking, yes, I agree with you. Yellows outright fail in their cause by having the majority of their sisters stationed in Tar Valon instead of population centers across the continent for fast response, Greens fail in their cause by not having the majority of their forces stationed along the blight border to support the Borderlanders (who by far are a far more effective force for good than the tower), Browns fail their cause by not disseminating the knowledge of the tower, Whites. . .why?, and "finding causes" at this point in the series still means absolutely jack to me. The only ajah that seems to succeed in their stated goal for the most part is the Red.

 

Also, I am not implying that the Tower is not a force for good. I am outright stating that they abuse the fact that they have abilities above and beyond those of the normal person to enforce their goals and vision of the world upon other cultures. That is undeniable.

 

Curious what are the multiple countries that have been allowed to fail due to internal politicking? We know about Manethern(which was the work of one woman) but what are the others?

 

I agree that they aren't nearly what they could be, as I made clear in my post. However you implied they no longer provide services to the world at large which is false. In addition it is a straw man to say that since a Fain influenced, delusional Elaida did things a certain way that it is a statement on how Tar Valon has been run over the years. Why don't we stick to the text which shows a very happy, wealthy populace that have an extremely high quality of life and have benefited significantly from how Tar Valon is run.

[balefired-ed2]

If by saving the world you mean allowing multiple countries to fail and fall due to internal politicking, yes, I agree with you. Yellows outright fail in their cause by having the majority of their sisters stationed in Tar Valon instead of population centers across the continent for fast response, Greens fail in their cause by not having the majority of their forces stationed along the blight border to support the Borderlanders (who by far are a far more effective force for good than the tower), Browns fail their cause by not disseminating the knowledge of the tower, Whites. . .why?, and "finding causes" at this point in the series still means absolutely jack to me. The only ajah that seems to succeed in their stated goal for the most part is the Red.

 

Also, I am not implying that the Tower is not a force for good. I am outright stating that they abuse the fact that they have abilities above and beyond those of the normal person to enforce their goals and vision of the world upon other cultures. That is undeniable.

 

Curious what are the multiple countries that have been allowed to fail due to internal politicking? We know about Manethern(which was the work of one woman) but what are the others?

 

 

I agree that they aren't nearly what they could be, as I made clear in my post. However you implied they no longer provide services to the world at large which is false. In addition it is a straw man to say that since a Fain influenced, delusional Elaida did things a certain way that it is a statement on how Tar Valon has been run over the years. Why don't we stick to the text which shows a very happy, wealthy populace that have an extremely high quality of life and have benefited significantly from how Tar Valon is run.

 

Reasonably implied in the BwB is the fact that the White Tower deliberately tried to remove Hawkwing from power while he was still king of a middling nation because he crossed the Rubicon. This set off a string of events where multiple nations fell to conquest, a setting up of another, even more repressive empire, two failed conquests, and then the fall of the empire itself (admittedly helped by Ishmael), which led to another 100 years of conflict and the current geopolitical situation in Randland.

 

Also, and I wont blame you if you call this a stretch, the fall of Malkier can be case where Tower power structure failed a nation that supported the Tower. Since the ajahs seem primarily focused on gaining political power within the institution itself instead of pursuing their stated goals they have neglectfully misappropriated valuable assets, the Aes Sedai themselves, and compromised their ability to act effectively.

 

Finally, I think you are missing my criticism on the governance of Tar Valon and use of the example of Elaidas tower. The criticism is the fact that one person can waste many resources and monies in a city while not being elected by the inhabitants of said city; rather a select genetic elite not only make decisions that affect the city in general but also the entire continent.

 

P.S.

 

I realized that I left out the Gray ajah in my previous post. They could be an example of an ajah that has had some limited success as a semi-neutral entity somewhat preventing or cooling war.

[Guest PiotrekS]

Well, reason #1, is that Galad is alwasy honorable, and #2, they barely exist anymore.

 

If anyone can restore the CotL to Mantelar's original conception (which we haven't seen, but Galad thinks it makes sense and he always does the right thing) then it's Galad. And I have no doubt that part of that restoration will be to make them somehow accountable to the poeple they are to guard against DFs. As with the AS, someone has to watch the watchers.

 

Sam Vimes watches the watchers, you know that! And he watches himself too...

 

I share some critical opinions about Aes Sedai, but comparing them to the Whitecloaks is very unfair IMHO. The Whitecloaks are a society dedicated to fighting against Darkfriends, modeled on medieval military orders. Such organizations used to degenerate in history and similar thing happened to the Whitecloaks as well. I don't see them functioning right in any circumstances, because violence + religion = bad combination.

 

The Aes Sedai are a society of people gifted with a special power whose potential uses are numerous, both benevolent and dangerous. They can heal, wage war, construct buildings, machines etc. They live longer, have knowledge, experience, traditions - their potential is in my eyes incomparable to the Whitecloaks.

 

As to Tar Valon, we have to remember it was a city built by Aes Sedai (to be precise - by the Ogier commissioned by the Aes Sedai) to be their seat. It is because of the Aes Sedai all those people who came to Tar Valon could live in prosperity. While I understand that Aes Sedai are often seen as impostors in different countries, in Tar Valon they are truly in their own home. There had been no city before the Aes Sedai decided to build Tar Valon.

[FossMaNo1]

As to Tar Valon, we have to remember it was a city built by Aes Sedai (to be precise - by the Ogier commissioned by the Aes Sedai) to be their seat. It is because of the Aes Sedai all those people who came to Tar Valon could live in prosperity.

 

And it is because those people went to the Aes Sedai to live of their own volition, I don't see any need to give them authority. TV was design to be an Aes Sedai city. It just happens to have normal people amongst its population.

[MasterAblar]

Maybe it's just me but I always found the Aes Sedai and Children of the Light chapters quite similar. Or rather, Niall's and Elaida's chapters had the same flavor and so did Galad's and Egwene's. Particularly when Galad's talking logic with Asuanawa. It reminded me of when Egwnene did the same with the "black hunters" and Elaida. Galad's less agressive tone fits Egwene's talk with the black hunters but of course the opponent is more similar to Elaida.

 

Also, I noticed the opposing way in which the two groups respectively split and then joined again. The Children were mostly broken apart by the Seanchan, whereas the Aes Sedai split apart on their own (though with a good bit of the Shadow's influence). And then the Children joined once again on their own, whereas the Seanchan had a fairly large part in the Aes Sedai joining together once more (though it was, of course, unintentional).

[MasterAblar]

As to Tar Valon, we have to remember it was a city built by Aes Sedai (to be precise - by the Ogier commissioned by the Aes Sedai) to be their seat. It is because of the Aes Sedai all those people who came to Tar Valon could live in prosperity.

 

And it is because those people went to the Aes Sedai to live of their own volition, I don't see any need to give them authority. TV was design to be an Aes Sedai city. It just happens to have normal people amongst its population.

 

Someone who goes to Andor may go there of their own volition, that doesn't change the fact that they'll have to live under the Queen's authority. Similarly, the Amyrlin is a sort of Queen in Tar Valon. If you're going to go live there, of your own volition or not, you'll be under her rule. The Aes Sedai all essentially have the same position in Tar Valon as the nobility does in Andor, or any other nation of course.

[Suttree]

If by saving the world you mean allowing multiple countries to fail and fall due to internal politicking, yes, I agree with you. Yellows outright fail in their cause by having the majority of their sisters stationed in Tar Valon instead of population centers across the continent for fast response, Greens fail in their cause by not having the majority of their forces stationed along the blight border to support the Borderlanders (who by far are a far more effective force for good than the tower), Browns fail their cause by not disseminating the knowledge of the tower, Whites. . .why?, and "finding causes" at this point in the series still means absolutely jack to me. The only ajah that seems to succeed in their stated goal for the most part is the Red.

 

Also, I am not implying that the Tower is not a force for good. I am outright stating that they abuse the fact that they have abilities above and beyond those of the normal person to enforce their goals and vision of the world upon other cultures. That is undeniable.

 

Curious what are the multiple countries that have been allowed to fail due to internal politicking? We know about Manethern(which was the work of one woman) but what are the others?

 

 

I agree that they aren't nearly what they could be, as I made clear in my post. However you implied they no longer provide services to the world at large which is false. In addition it is a straw man to say that since a Fain influenced, delusional Elaida did things a certain way that it is a statement on how Tar Valon has been run over the years. Why don't we stick to the text which shows a very happy, wealthy populace that have an extremely high quality of life and have benefited significantly from how Tar Valon is run.

 

Reasonably implied in the BwB is the fact that the White Tower deliberately tried to remove Hawkwing from power while he was still king of a middling nation because he crossed the Rubicon. This set off a string of events where multiple nations fell to conquest, a setting up of another, even more repressive empire, two failed conquests, and then the fall of the empire itself (admittedly helped by Ishmael), which led to another 100 years of conflict and the current geopolitical situation in Randland.

 

Also, and I wont blame you if you call this a stretch, the fall of Malkier can be case where Tower power structure failed a nation that supported the Tower. Since the ajahs seem primarily focused on gaining political power within the institution itself instead of pursuing their stated goals they have neglectfully misappropriated valuable assets, the Aes Sedai themselves, and compromised their ability to act effectively.

 

Bonwhin played little role in the over all scheme of things. It is quite clear that Ishamael and the BA were the driving factor and played the two powers against each other.

 

"I whispered in Artur Hawkwing's ear, and the length and breadth of the land Aes Sedai died. I whispered again, and the High King sent his armies across the Aryth Ocean, across the World Sea, and sealed two dooms. The doom of his dream of one land and one people, and a doom yet to come."

 

As I mentioned before, just because the story has focused on political undercurrents within the WT it is folly to assume that most AS are involved in such. Again every sister's room we have seen shows mementos from a life long lived adventuring outside the tower.

 

In terms of Malkier, it was a DF coup. Travelling had not been been invented and help could not arrive in time. Not sure what else you want them to do in that situation?

[balefired-ed2]

If by saving the world you mean allowing multiple countries to fail and fall due to internal politicking, yes, I agree with you. Yellows outright fail in their cause by having the majority of their sisters stationed in Tar Valon instead of population centers across the continent for fast response, Greens fail in their cause by not having the majority of their forces stationed along the blight border to support the Borderlanders (who by far are a far more effective force for good than the tower), Browns fail their cause by not disseminating the knowledge of the tower, Whites. . .why?, and "finding causes" at this point in the series still means absolutely jack to me. The only ajah that seems to succeed in their stated goal for the most part is the Red.

 

Also, I am not implying that the Tower is not a force for good. I am outright stating that they abuse the fact that they have abilities above and beyond those of the normal person to enforce their goals and vision of the world upon other cultures. That is undeniable.

 

Curious what are the multiple countries that have been allowed to fail due to internal politicking? We know about Manethern(which was the work of one woman) but what are the others?

 

 

I agree that they aren't nearly what they could be, as I made clear in my post. However you implied they no longer provide services to the world at large which is false. In addition it is a straw man to say that since a Fain influenced, delusional Elaida did things a certain way that it is a statement on how Tar Valon has been run over the years. Why don't we stick to the text which shows a very happy, wealthy populace that have an extremely high quality of life and have benefited significantly from how Tar Valon is run.

 

Reasonably implied in the BwB is the fact that the White Tower deliberately tried to remove Hawkwing from power while he was still king of a middling nation because he crossed the Rubicon. This set off a string of events where multiple nations fell to conquest, a setting up of another, even more repressive empire, two failed conquests, and then the fall of the empire itself (admittedly helped by Ishmael), which led to another 100 years of conflict and the current geopolitical situation in Randland.

 

Also, and I wont blame you if you call this a stretch, the fall of Malkier can be case where Tower power structure failed a nation that supported the Tower. Since the ajahs seem primarily focused on gaining political power within the institution itself instead of pursuing their stated goals they have neglectfully misappropriated valuable assets, the Aes Sedai themselves, and compromised their ability to act effectively.

 

Bonwhin played little role in the over all scheme of things. It is quite clear that Ishamael and the BA were the driving factor and played the two powers against each other.

 

"I whispered in Artur Hawkwing's ear, and the length and breadth of the land Aes Sedai died. I whispered again, and the High King sent his armies across the Aryth Ocean, across the World Sea, and sealed two dooms. The doom of his dream of one land and one people, and a doom yet to come."

 

As I mentioned before, just because the story has focused on political undercurrents within the WT it is folly to assume that most AS are involved in such. Again every sister's room we have seen shows mementos from a life long lived adventuring outside the tower.

 

In terms of Malkier, it was a DF coup. Travelling had not been been invented and help could not arrive in time. Not sure what else you want them to do in that situation?

 

1. I dont have source material with me at the time, but I am pretty sure that Ishmael was not around during the initial consolidation of the Randland Hawkwing empire, which would lay the blame for the initial consolidation at the feet of the White Tower. If anyone has the BWB in front of them, please confirm or prove this statement false.

 

2. Travelling had not been rediscovered, correct; however, I already stated why I think the Aes Sedai failed Malkier- the very structure of their organization prioritizes political power within the institution over effective deployment of resources. What do I want them to do? I will lay out how I think the channeling organization in Randland should be as a whole.

 

A. WT/BT could serve as great channeling schools/guild headquarters for the respective female and male channelers (insert- Rand has failed MASSIVELY with the BT). Combined capital somewhere with equal representation hall and leader with single limited term alternating between WT/BT.

 

B. Guild chapters in every major population area to more actively respond to local needs. Set up hospitals, libraries/schools, and rally points for defense. Local government is the most responsive and able to act even with the rediscovered ability to travel. Since Aes Sedai already collect money from multiple nations this will justify those funds received and improve relations with a public that largely distrusts channelers.

 

C. Back to the original post, non-channeling international watchdog group that acts as an IG to report to the general populace on fraud, waste, and abuse of channeling resources to make the channelers accountable to those who give them monetary support.

 

That about sums it up.