The Logistics of 13x13ing the Ashaman

[OptimusPrime]

A couple of things.

 

What with the Dreamspike having been in place, I can only see two ways to do it.

 

1. Offsite rituals via True Power gateway kidnappings, where the Ashaman is taken to the Blight fortress or elsewhere.

2. Onsite rituals.

 

The first one seems highly unlikely, unless either Moridin was snagging Ashaman himself, or if Taim or Demandred had True Power access.

 

the second though, I think that seems more likely the case, but that means Myrdraal are at least frequently at the Black Tower. Now I cant see Myrdraal walking through the front gates, nor can I see them being shipped in with wagons or whatever. I cant help thinking True Power gateways are involved, but then that begs the big question. Is it Moridin that coordinates it, or does Demandred or Taim or someone else have True Power access?

 

Thoughts/ideas? How do you think theyre doing it? Is the True Power a vital ingredient to it being done, in terms of logistics?

[MasterAblar]

A couple of things.

 

What with the Dreamspike having been in place, I can only see two ways to do it.

 

1. Offsite rituals via True Power gateway kidnappings, where the Ashaman is taken to the Blight fortress or elsewhere.

2. Onsite rituals.

 

The first one seems highly unlikely, unless either Moridin was snagging Ashaman himself, or if Taim or Demandred had True Power access.

 

the second though, I think that seems more likely the case, but that means Myrdraal are at least frequently at the Black Tower. Now I cant see Myrdraal walking through the front gates, nor can I see them being shipped in with wagons or whatever. I cant help thinking True Power gateways are involved, but then that begs the big question. Is it Moridin that coordinates it, or does Demandred or Taim or someone else have True Power access?

 

Thoughts/ideas? How do you think theyre doing it? Is the True Power a vital ingredient to it being done, in terms of logistics?

 

Getting them in wouldn't be a problem, as they are pretty stealthy. And they got in to the Stone of Tear in carts and boats if I remember correctly. And besides they can just travel through shadows. The real issue would be keeping them undetected once inside the BT. Afterall channelers can sense shadowspawn. However I believe there is a way to ward shadowspawn so that they can't be detected. The draghkar that attacked Moiraine in tGH was apparently warded as it was able to come right up to Moiraine without being detected.

[Goldstar]

IIRC, didn't Androl and co. mention something about Taim taking his favorite Dedicated for private lessons?

[Brevsparv]

Mesaana thinks in TOM that a dreamspike can let certain gateways through. Why would TP even be needed in that case?

 

Concerning channelers sensing shadowspawn, I thought that was the warders, not the channelers themselves.

[Feral]

Mesaana thinks in TOM that a dreamspike can let certain gateways through. Why would TP even be needed in that case?

 

Concerning channelers sensing shadowspawn, I thought that was the warders, not the channelers themselves.

 

They both can I believe. We see Rand sense them a couple of times I think.

[Goldstar]

Oh, and I beleive Graendal comments on the dreamspike blocking all "but those given permission" or something along those lines.

[Sharaman]

Presumably Taim has the key to the Dspike - Moridin refers to having the key to the other one he gives Graendal.

[MasterAblar]

Mesaana thinks in TOM that a dreamspike can let certain gateways through. Why would TP even be needed in that case?

 

Concerning channelers sensing shadowspawn, I thought that was the warders, not the channelers themselves.

 

Shadowspawn can't go through a gateway without dying. It's the whole reason for deathgates.

[aaron11]

A couple of things.

 

What with the Dreamspike having been in place, I can only see two ways to do it.

 

1. Offsite rituals via True Power gateway kidnappings, where the Ashaman is taken to the Blight fortress or elsewhere.

2. Onsite rituals.

 

The first one seems highly unlikely, unless either Moridin was snagging Ashaman himself, or if Taim or Demandred had True Power access.

 

the second though, I think that seems more likely the case, but that means Myrdraal are at least frequently at the Black Tower. Now I cant see Myrdraal walking through the front gates, nor can I see them being shipped in with wagons or whatever. I cant help thinking True Power gateways are involved, but then that begs the big question. Is it Moridin that coordinates it, or does Demandred or Taim or someone else have True Power access?

 

Thoughts/ideas? How do you think theyre doing it? Is the True Power a vital ingredient to it being done, in terms of logistics?

 

 

you are failing to understand the dreamspike. it only prevents people that you don't want to be able to come to where it is. if you have the password or are granted permission then you can travel inside.

[OptimusPrime]

Thanks for the comments guys, I overlooked a couple of things obviously haha. I forgot about Fade shadow teleport and the Dreamspike permission thing. Cheers

[Sharaman]

Wolves can also smash through it - Perrin, Hopper & co. So presumably it can be circumvented in TAR at least.

Maybe a determined channeler in the flesh can also smash through ("barrel through" to use a favoured Brandonism).

One thing though. Both G and Messi think that a DSpike has multiple uses. Wonder what the other functions are?

LTT should know as well.

[Leyrann]

And we do know that Taim HAS TP access. It's in WH prologue. And now I have dinner. There, (IIRC) this is said: "Shadow seemed to follow him". BS answered a question about this that it was indeed the TP.

[Pinzarn]

Mesaana thinks in TOM that a dreamspike can let certain gateways through. Why would TP even be needed in that case?

 

Concerning channelers sensing shadowspawn, I thought that was the warders, not the channelers themselves.

 

Shadowspawn can't go through a gateway without dying. It's the whole reason for deathgates.

 

But it would allow for the dark channelers and the "victim" to travel to the shadowspawn.

[yoniy0]

As Drekka already said, I don't see any problem with the procedure, considering that the Halfmen can just pop into Taim's palace, assist in the process, and then pop out - all the time being Warded to avoid unwanted attention.

[MasterAblar]

And we do know that Taim HAS TP access. It's in WH prologue. And now I have dinner. There, (IIRC) this is said: "Shadow seemed to follow him". BS answered a question about this that it was indeed the TP.

 

What? Brandon said that Taim had TP access? Seriously?

[yoniy0]

What? Brandon said that Taim had TP access? Seriously?

Hinted at it. When asked about the aura Elayne noticed around Taim and how it's similar to the one Rand presents in TGS, presumably because he channeled the TP, Brandon said it was the first time someone had noticed that, that he's aware.

[MasterAblar]

What? Brandon said that Taim had TP access? Seriously?

Hinted at it. When asked about the aura Elayne noticed around Taim and how it's similar to the one Rand presents in TGS, presumably because he channeled the TP, Brandon said it was the first time someone had noticed that, that he's aware.

 

Oh yeah, I remember that. Thanks.

[Ogrelin]

Doesn't channelers sence shadowspawn close by? I seems to remember them doing it in the early books. Wouldn't the channelers in the dark tower react?

[Luckers]

Shadowspawn can be warded to hide that sensation--it's how that draghkar got close enough to attack Moiraine in the Great Hunt.

[mb]

If onsite, the 13 myrddaal could have gotten in through shadows; myrddaal can enter and exit an area by shadow.