Merrilor: A Big, Fat Red Herring

[FarShainMael]

We'll have to agree to differ on that one, for reasons I have already stated twice.

But the quote makes it quite clear that your reasons don't make sense....

 

A further attempt at explanation here, a more appropriate place for that topic.

[FarShainMael]

Maybe Merrilor will turn into one giant auction. The GLoD will grab Rand's soul and then ask "WHAT AM I BID?" with Perrin using Mjollnir to conduct proceedings.

 

I bid one original idea.. sorry, wrong book

[Terez]

Plus, killing him with Balefire to avoid such a technicality will confuse the hell out of the more casual reader who hasn't read RJ's express explanation of balefire and probably believes it destroys a thread forever.

It won't be that confusing if they explain it, now will it?

[AshaShan]

If Rand dies after sealing the Bore as I suspect he will then the Dark One wont be able to grab anyone's soul anymore.

[Terez]

Well of course, but there are a good many reasons to believe he will die before then, and no good reason for him to die after. Imagine how disappointing that would be - Rand seals the Bore, and then...what? He gets killed by Demandred? Lame.

[AshaShan]

I'm thinking he dies from the strain of fighting the Dark One and sealing its prison, heroic sacrifice for the good of the world and all. The ressurection comes after, in the hopes he can prevent the future Aviendha saw from coming about.

[Bluedust9]

Rand will die by sacrificing himself with Callandor after channeling in all the True Power he can.

 

From TGH:

 

I don’t know if I should listen to you,” Rand told the Warder. “These fancy clothes, and all those things you told me, they didn’t help much.”

“When you can’t win a big victory, sheepherder, learn to settle for the small ones. If you made them think of you as something more than a farm-boy who’ll be easy to handle, then you won a small victory. Now be quiet and listen. I’ve only time for one last lesson, the hardest. Sheathing the Sword.”

“You’ve spent an hour every morning making me do nothing but draw this bloody sword and put it back in the scabbard. Standing, sitting, lying down. I think I can manage to get it back in the sheath without cutting myself.”

“I said listen, sheepherder,” the Warder growled. “There will come a time when you must achieve a goal at all costs. It may come in attack or in defense. And the only way will be to allow the sword to be sheathed in your own body.”

“That’s crazy,” Rand said. “Why would I ever—?”

The Warder cut him off. “You will know when it comes, sheepherder, when the price is worth the gain, and there is no other choice left to you. That is called Sheathing the Sword. Remember it."

 

It was another voice he heard then. Lan’s voice. There will come a time when you want something more than you want life. Ingtar’s voice. It is every man’s right to choose when to Sheathe the Sword. The picture formed of Egwene, collared, living her life as a damane. Threads of my life in danger. Egwene. If Hawkwing gets into Falme, he can save her. Before he knew it, he had taken the first position of Heron Wading in the Rushes, balanced on one foot, sword raised high, open and defenseless. Death is lighter than a feather, duty heavier than a mountain

 

And I dunno if this one foreshadows anything but I found it touching:

 

After a time, Ingtar spoke again, firmly. “There has to be a price, Rand. There is always a price. Perhaps I can pay it here.”

“Ingtar, I—”

“It is every man’s right, Rand, to choose when to Sheathe the Sword. Even one like me."

[FarShainMael]

Rand Sheathed the Sword in the sky-battle with Ba'alzamon (TGH47). He used the form 'Heron wading in the rushes' which laid him open to attack, Ba'al stabbed him in the side with the staff - giving that unhealing wound - and Rand in turn stabbed Ba'al in the heart, killing him.

[sleepinghour]

I'm not convinced Mat is going to the lead the armies of the world as a general. I said that, but I don't necessarily beleive it. I do think he's going to be integral in specific major battles. Possibly subduing the Seanchan and taking their armies over. Possibly in re-taking Caemlyn (which, by the way, is going to fall to the shadow - we're going to be reading stories about the people of caemlyn being eaten or thrown into fires when they didn't submit to the Dark One).

I don't think Caemlyn's as doomed as it seems.

 

Caemlyn was ablaze with the light of torches and lamps. Illumination hung over the city like a fog, grand spires and towers lit by the glow. The old memories inside him remembered this city--remembered assaulting it before Andor was even a nation. Caemlyn had never made for an easy fight. He did not envy the Houses that had tried to seize it from Elayne.

[...]

Mat had left Tylin behind, and she was dead now. He was not going to do the same to Olver.

As Mat commented in ToM, Caemlyn's not the easiest city to take, and the quote leads me to believe that Mat himself is going to end up defending it; the question is whether he'll go to Merrilor before that or not. Assuming the Sea Folk are still in the palace, it would be a good opportunity for them to repay their debt to Mat for freeing the Windfinders in Ebou Dar. It's about time they do something awesome to make up for having spent almost the entire series being selfish and annoying.

 

I actually had a loony theory that the Sea Folk would flood parts of Caemlyn and trap the Trollocs (who are known to avoid water) against the city walls, but the river outside Caemlyn is probably too far off for that. Still, there are other things they can do like throw lightning at Trollocs and summon rain to put out the fires in the city. The Kin will probably help too, but they aren't nearly as good at fighting as the Sea Folk. Since there are far more Kin than Sea Folk, the best thing would be for the Kin to link with the Sea Folk and allow a Windfinder lead the circle, but that might be too much to hope for considering they've hated each other since TPoD.

[Terez]

Mat's comments were in reference to trying to take the city from the outside. The Shadowspawn are on the inside, which is a major problem - and that's not counting the hostile forces on the outside, perhaps including the mercenaries.

[FarShainMael]

I thought the Waygate they're supposed to be entering by was in the 'New City', outside the walls?

 

Edit: no, it's outside the Inner City walls and has its own boundary.

 

http://library.tarvalon.net/index.php?title=Caemlyn

[David Selig]

Caemlyn has two sets of walls - one surrounding the Inner City and one further outside, surrounding the New City. The Waygate is outside the inner walls, but inside the outer walls.

[FarShainMael]

No wonder I was confused

 

Anyway, since Mat remembers assaulting Caemlyn 'before Andor was even a nation', it's likely that predates the New City as well, so it was the Inner City he was thinking of.

 

Hmm. I wonder if he used the Waygate..

[David Selig]

The New City is most probably older than Andor too, it's only new in comparison with the Inner City:

 

The Guide

 

The capital, Caemlyn, is one of the most beautiful cities in the land, second only to Tar Valon, though its natives may argue that ranking. Like a gleaming crown upon its gently rolling hills, the city is actually made up of two sections, the New City, built well under two thousand years ago by the hands of man alone, and the ancient Inner City, much of which bears the mark of Ogier stonemasons.

Most likely it was built after the Trollocs Wars, but several centuries before Hawkwing.

[FarShainMael]

Plenty of wiggle room for speculation, anyway.

[Terez]

Shillster: Why does Verin make Mat promise to obey her letter if he opened it in ToM? In my mind of course if he would have obeyed the letter if he read it. All that Verin had to do was say "Mat, read this in a few days it's super important" then since he didn't have any reason not to read the letter he would read it and prevent the horrible battle with the trollocs. What was Verin's reasoning?

 

Brandon: A couple of things here.

 

The primary one is that Verin had to work around her oaths, which required her to go through some strange mental gymnastics. She actually tried out different ways of getting this information across, and could never make it work. (In her pouch was actually a letter that said something similar to Mat, but which read "Ignore what I say and open this immediately.) She couldn't pick it up at the moment, however. The oaths were binding. She would either have had to take poison right then, or bet on Mat being too impatient to wait.

 

Second thing is this, and it's a slight spoiler for the next book. [she did build in redundancy.]

 

Shillster: My question isn't regarding the loophole that she found, the question is as to why make Mat promise to obey the letter. She could have made him promise not to open the letter for 3 days and still maintained her loophole. It's the promise to obey the letter that makes Mat not read it and now they are in a whole lot of trouble because of it.

 

Brandon: Let's just say that Verin...didn't understand Mat as well as she thought that she did.

Interesting.

[Southpaw89]

I'm still confused what the spoiler was regarding Verin in that comment. Maybe my brain is just tired tonight

[Songstress]

I'm still confused what the spoiler was regarding Verin in that comment. Maybe my brain is just tired tonight

 

"She did build in redundancy"... so therefore, it wasn't just Mat that she told.

[Terez]

He seems to be saying that Mat ain't the only person she told.

[Suttree]

He seems to be saying that Mat ain't the only person she told.

 

Indeed, stoked to see how that will play out...

[Dream]

He seems to be saying that Mat ain't the only person she told.

Alanna! It's Alanna!

[Piulus]

He seems to be saying that Mat ain't the only person she told.

Alanna! It's Alanna!

 

 

Logain!

[FarShainMael]

He seems to be saying that Mat ain't the only person she told.

Alanna! It's Alanna!

 

Could be..

 

"Rand, Alanna is gone. She vanished earlier today."

 

"Yes. I felt her go. Northward somewhere. The Borderlands, perhaps Arafel."

 

Caemlyn is more-or-less northward of Tear. Did she stop off on the way, to warn Elayne?

[Dream]

Could be..

 

 

Caemlyn is more-or-less northward of Tear. Did she stop off on the way, to warn Elayne?

No, I mean Arafel was a misdirection. She's still in Caemlyn organising the defense. As to why she didn't tell anyone, maybe she's Black too?

 

It was sort of a knee-jerk response.

[FarShainMael]

Could be..

 

 

Caemlyn is more-or-less northward of Tear. Did she stop off on the way, to warn Elayne?

No, I mean Arafel was a misdirection. She's still in Caemlyn organising the defense. As to why she didn't tell anyone, maybe she's Black too?

 

It was sort of a knee-jerk response.

 

It wwas Rand that thought she might be in Arafel; but we don't know if he perceived it or she told him through the bond (if that's possible). I'm inclined to agree with you, she went to Caemlyn. She didn't stop to tell anyone - but she did write a lot of letters herself, enough to empty am ink bottle.