Rand Kneeling to Empress (speculation)

[aunt_pol]

I'd be seriously disappointed if Tuon and rest of the Seanchan gets away with their current believes and acts. It's been pretty comon throughout the entire series to kick arrogant people off their high horses, prime example being the Aes Sedai. Rand kneeling in front of Tuon would just strengthen The Seanchan belief that they are superior to rest of Randland, and that the Empress knows no equal.

 

 

That! Precisely that! It's such a preposterous belief she can't be allowed to keep it! The problem is, how she can be disabused of it but still play ball at TG? She'd expect to set Galgan over Ituralde, Bashere, Mat, Perrin, the lot and Rand go do what he's told.

[aunt_pol]

Rand will show her the appropriate respect she deserves as a potential ally, he wont go down on his knees to him, as it would make him less than her.

 

That still leaves the huge chasm between what he thinks is appropriate respect and what she does...

[Majsju]

I'd be seriously disappointed if Tuon and rest of the Seanchan gets away with their current believes and acts. It's been pretty comon throughout the entire series to kick arrogant people off their high horses, prime example being the Aes Sedai. Rand kneeling in front of Tuon would just strengthen The Seanchan belief that they are superior to rest of Randland, and that the Empress knows no equal.

 

Rand will show her the appropriate respect she deserves as a potential ally, he wont go down on his knees to him, as it would make him less than her.

 

And, looking at the visions Avi got in Rhuidean, Rand kneeling to Tuon seemed a part of how everything post-TG got s screwed up, and since she should be on her way back, she might be able to explain that kneeling would be a really really stupid idea.

[aunt_pol]

The question is, how can Rand secure a meaningful alliance without kneeling?

[Manscher]

When she finds out that even Hawking himself fights underneath Rands banner? I'd imagine it will go down when the Seanchan attacks The White Tower

[aunt_pol]

When she finds out that even Hawking himself fights underneath Rands banner? I'd imagine it will go down when the Seanchan attacks The White Tower

 

That works, esp if she gets to see hubby blowing the Horn of Valere. Major learning curve for her. Hawkwing probably is the only character who can turn her around.

Caddy would be fun, but I can't see Fortuona actually putting any store in what a marath'damane says, outside of Foretelling/revealing Talents. Thus perhaps Elaida may redeem herself inadvertently. We shall see...

[Owayn The Traveller]

When she finds out that even Hawking himself fights underneath Rands banner? I'd imagine it will go down when the Seanchan attacks The White Tower

 

That works, esp if she gets to see hubby blowing the Horn of Valere. Major learning curve for her. Hawkwing probably is the only character who can turn her around.

Caddy would be fun, but I can't see Fortuona actually putting any store in what a marath'damane says, outside of Foretelling/revealing Talents. Thus perhaps Elaida may redeem herself inadvertently. We shall see...

 

I can see her not being set straight by Hawkwing, would she believe its him? She's been socialized all her life to conform and accept her societies beliefs and she has internalized them. Very hard to get her to see it another way, her convictions are very strong.

 

By the way, hello! Thought you where gone havent seen you for ages on here. Havent been on it much myself though either.

[shadowofomioc]

Yeah there is no reason to believe any other prophecies are fully correct. Alot of them have not come true at this point. The one about Perrin dying never came to pass and that was a major one that was supposed to be in some top secret special prophecy bible and it was still false.

 

Not every prophecy can be true. Of course the shadow has a darker prophecy that involves Rand losing. The Seachan have a prophecy that further moves them to the head of the Earth. So of course Rand will be seen bowing to the Empress and the Empire will battle the shadow and send Rand in through a A'dam when the Empress chooses.

 

It just depends on which prophecy is the right one. If any. The main prophecy, the Cycle, has been exactly correct every step of the way in this series. The other prophecies have been right maybe once or twice. Making the legitimacy of them very moot at this point.

 

It is guaranteed that if another confrontation with the Seachan happens that the Empress will try and force Rand to " kneel " to her but I do not see Rand doing it. Atleast not when commanded. He might kneel to confer to the traditions of the people. As a warrior might. But not kneeling in servitude.

 

The last book is shaping up pretty well though. Caemlyn under siege. The Seachan poised to attack the White Tower again via Gateways. The trolloc horde is incoming from the Blight. The armies of the world are gathered in a single spot for this meeting. Ewgene on one side, Rand on the other. Pretty much half and half for and against the idea of what Rand wants to do. Seachan vs. Aiel. Seachan Vs. White Tower. Rand Vs. Ewgene. Caemlyn vs. Trolloc Army. Etc. Etc.

 

Will be a ride. But Rand kneeling to the Empress? Not likely. Seachan being pushed down a peg or two? Very likely.

[aunt_pol]

Seachan vs. Aiel. Seachan Vs. White Tower. Rand Vs. Ewgene. Caemlyn vs. Trolloc Army. Etc. Etc.

 

Will be a ride. But Rand kneeling to the Empress? Not likely. Seachan being pushed down a peg or two? Very likely.

 

Just thought of a lovely potential battle there, if TG weren't banging on the door... Aiel defending the Shining Walls against Seanchan. Kind of poetic, given the whole 'Failed the Aes Sedai' thing in the Aiel past... Who knows, maybe Egwene asks Amys and co if they'll help? She's hardly going to stay at FoM talking at Rand while the Seanchan make off with every novice and accepted in the Tower.

 

ETA - Owayn - Yep, I'm bold, I only really show up in any kind of consistent way when I'm getting antsy for the next book, and tend to stay just a few weeks after its release... Don't know what I'll do next winter!

[shadowofomioc]

Although. It did not surprise Tuon when she saw Rand's arm was missing. That made her think, " he doesn't seem blind yet though, so that hasn't happened ". Perhaps there is something to the Seanchan prophecy but as some have stated, just a corrupted version of it. Tainted with half-truths by one of the Forsaken.

 

With how everything is shaping up. It would just take some major events to force Rand to kneel before the Empress in an event to somehow salvage the situation.

 

Only thing I can think of is.

 

1.) Hundreds of Aes Sedai being leashed in the White Tower. Possibly including Ewgene?

 

2.) Caemlyn gets overrun by Trollocs. Splitting the world in half. Massive attack coming from the north, the blight, and the south, Caemlyn. Making the world leaders completely paranoid and having to attack on not one, but 3 fronts. West, Seachan. East, Shadow and North, Shadow. That could become a major turning point tbh. And then lets not forget if Taim really is one of the Forsaken. That would mean alot of the Black Tower ends up fighting itself. A potential immensely powerful ally to the world would be significantly weakened.

 

3.) Matt talks Rand into " liking " or respecting the Empress in some manner. Perhaps Tuon takes Matt hostage or as bait for Rand? Tuon became real interested when he saw Rand's reaction to mentioning Matt.

 

A number of possibilities for sure. Especially if somehow Ewgene talks the world leaders into siding with her and Rand cannot get much support in his efforts to break the seals. Of course, I doubt Rand will care or brought the nations together to beg for permission. He actually just did that so he could tell them all at once his demands for going up against the Dark One in a bloody cage match.

[Owayn The Traveller]

Seachan vs. Aiel. Seachan Vs. White Tower. Rand Vs. Ewgene. Caemlyn vs. Trolloc Army. Etc. Etc.

 

Will be a ride. But Rand kneeling to the Empress? Not likely. Seachan being pushed down a peg or two? Very likely.

 

Just thought of a lovely potential battle there, if TG weren't banging on the door... Aiel defending the Shining Walls against Seanchan. Kind of poetic, given the whole 'Failed the Aes Sedai' thing in the Aiel past... Who knows, maybe Egwene asks Amys and co if they'll help? She's hardly going to stay at FoM talking at Rand while the Seanchan make off with every novice and accepted in the Tower.

 

ETA - Owayn - Yep, I'm bold, I only really show up in any kind of consistent way when I'm getting antsy for the next book, and tend to stay just a few weeks after its release... Don't know what I'll do next winter!

Kinda similar in that regard. Look it's October/November time. New books around this time last couple of years and here I am again posting a bit more than I have been. Even though no book.

Maybe a re read is in order.

[Colonel Gooch]

I sure hope he doesn't kneel to those Seanchan knobs they frustrate me even more than the Cairhienen

[1Brotherbill]

Kneeling could be twisted by the Seanchan. From what it seems that the Empire can make things fact that aren't true. All the Empress could just say that is how it is and the Empire would say it's so. Also in the books rumor is more often taken as fact over true events. How many books was Morgase dead again. Some people still think she is by the way. So with Avi's Crystal pipe dream. The part about the Dragon kneeling might be just rumor.

 

Also the Seanchan have all of these superstitions that are vague at best. Rand could slip on the carpet or something and just happen to go down to one knee in the same room as the Empress and they would say that the Dragon was kneeling. Case in point how Mat ended up being married to Toun.

 

So I wouldn't hold my breath on Rand kneeling anytime soon. There is still over eight hundred pages to deal with.