[Basic] Elizabethan Mafia - Game Over

[aemonkristen]

Until that last little exchange, I was seriously considering that Kiv was clever enough to pass on an NK the first night to try and draw out the healer or at least put the fear of God into him. I'm mostly convinced that is not the case and while Moon revealing with only one vote and after having protected someone else looks decidedly odd, I have a hard time seeing it as a scum move. I , however, still holding Ishy as my number one suspect for reasons already stated. Just in case I haven't done so yet

 

VOTR ISHY

[Christine]

Official Vote Count

Jack - 2 - Red, Krak

Red - 1 - Lily

Tiinker - 1 - Kivam

Ishy - 1 - Aemon

 

14 Alive, 8 to Lynch

 

 

Deadline is: August 11th, 2:00 PM EST

[Sakaea]

Well, I'm glad I'm not dead. So thanks. I agree with Red tho, everyone who asked for a counterclaim gets a big FOS.

 

Whys that?? After a claim that early for such a strong power role? FOS at you for saying that. Though I can't really do that if Moons the Doc and protected you and we don't have a NK. Well at least then we know 2 people who are pretty well confirmed unless someone else claims and proves it wrong in which case you're both scum.

 

 

she's liekly FoSing you guys for the same reason i've FoSd you guys. by asking for a counter it seems liek you lot are laying the ground work for a false reveal against Moon in an attemtp to get her lynched. whcih is soemthing i'd expect the scum to do with a revelaed healer.

 

 

What Red said. And the only way that Moon's claim would be proved right or wrong is by lynching her, which strikes me as a bad idea now. If someone actually CCs, well, then we'll see what shakes loose.

[Sedai]

Well, I'm glad I'm not dead. So thanks. I agree with Red tho, everyone who asked for a counterclaim gets a big FOS.

 

Whys that?? After a claim that early for such a strong power role? FOS at you for saying that. Though I can't really do that if Moons the Doc and protected you and we don't have a NK. Well at least then we know 2 people who are pretty well confirmed unless someone else claims and proves it wrong in which case you're both scum.

 

 

she's liekly FoSing you guys for the same reason i've FoSd you guys. by asking for a counter it seems liek you lot are laying the ground work for a false reveal against Moon in an attemtp to get her lynched. whcih is soemthing i'd expect the scum to do with a revelaed healer.

 

 

What Red said. And the only way that Moon's claim would be proved right or wrong is by lynching her, which strikes me as a bad idea now. If someone actually CCs, well, then we'll see what shakes loose.

 

So you FoS people for baiting a counter claim then you do the same. That seems logical UNVOTE and vote Sakea

[Sakaea]

How am I baiting a counter claim? I said no such thing. I said if someone does. That isn't asking someone to. I think asking for counterclaims at this point, as I said, is scummy.

Don't twist my words for your own nefarious purposes, Jack.

[Sedai]

"if someone CC's, wel then we will see what shakes loose." that's a bait Sakea, verbatim how you wrote it. Your inviting a CC to get information. Or to try and lynch our uncountered doc.

[Minuet]

Red I am no more mafia then you are my dear. I do believe Moon, I was wondering if someone like Jack would try for a gambit. I would never lynch someone who has claimed to be the doctor with now counter and no reason to suspect they are lying.

 

I can see that Moon wasn't going to be on the computer so she claimed early. I can understand that. I wanted her to come out and say that however. Which she did in so many words I suppose. That would be the only reason for so quick a claim is if you are going to be away from the computer and can't keep track of the thread.

 

Right now I am not sure who to vote for. So, I will withhold for now.

[Sedai]

[b{Red I am no more mafia then you are my dear.[/b] I do believe Moon, I was wondering if someone like Jack would try for a gambit. I would never lynch someone who has claimed to be the doctor with now counter and no reason to suspect they are lying.

 

I can see that Moon wasn't going to be on the computer so she claimed early. I can understand that. I wanted her to come out and say that however. Which she did in so many words I suppose. That would be the only reason for so quick a claim is if you are going to be away from the computer and can't keep track of the thread.

 

Right now I am not sure who to vote for. So, I will withhold for now.

 

the only way you would know a players allignment is if you were the finder or scum. Since I don't believe you'd breadcrumb this early in the game I believe you made a scum slip

[Sakaea]

Jack, that wasn't bait. If that's how you see it, ok, but that wasn't how it was meant.

[amegakure]

Well, I'm glad I'm not dead. So thanks. I agree with Red tho, everyone who asked for a counterclaim gets a big FOS..

 

What Red said. And the only way that Moon's claim would be proved right or wrong is by lynching her, which strikes me as a bad idea now. If someone actually CCs, well, then we'll see what shakes loose.

 

 

Well, I'm glad I'm not dead. So thanks. I agree with Red tho, everyone who asked for a counterclaim gets a big FOS.

Whys that?? After a claim that early for such a strong power role? FOS at you for saying that. Though I can't really do that if Moons the Doc and protected you and we don't have a NK. Well at least then we know 2 people who are pretty well confirmed unless someone else claims and proves it wrong in which case you're both scum.

she's liekly FoSing you guys for the same reason i've FoSd you guys. by asking for a counter it seems liek you lot are laying the ground work for a false reveal against Moon in an attemtp to get her lynched. whcih is soemthing i'd expect the scum to do with a revelaed healer.

What Red said. And the only way that Moon's claim would be proved right or wrong is by lynching her, which strikes me as a bad idea now. If someone actually CCs, well, then we'll see what shakes loose.

So you FoS people for baiting a counter claim then you do the same. That seems logical UNVOTE and vote Sakea

 

 

How am I baiting a counter claim? I said no such thing. I said if someone does. That isn't asking someone to. I think asking for counterclaims at this point, as I said, is scummy. Don't twist my words for your own nefarious purposes, Jack.

 

He's not twisting anything first you say don't counterclaim. Then you "bait" or whhatever you say you did.. which iss really laying down the thought process for a counter claim your alll backwards. Soo unvote whoever vote sakaea

[Blackhoof]

i agree amega- what a blatant contradiction.

 

unvote vote amega

[Moon Sedai]

Vote Hoof

The WIFOM over my reveal sits a little too uncomfy for me.

 

And why reveal on day 2?

 

Because I'm almost always lynched very early in game, especially when I am town.

[Blackhoof]

lol, that happens to me as well.

 

sorry about the wifom- if that is what you call it- is merely the result of me wishing to examine all the angles.

 

Also, your sig says "red redemption" when the game is called "red dead redemption". just though you might wish to know lol

[Kivam]

People, sakaea was targeted last night. That means she is definitely not scum. On my phone, but I'm very likely to vote someone who is voting her when I get to a comp

[Red2111]

what kiv said.

 

okay Min, thanks for the clarification.

 

i found Jack scummy on D1, but i always find jack scummy. i can see where he's comming from, but i believe Sakaea in her explination. she wasn't asking for a CC, unlike Blackie and Tiink and a few others were; she was just stating the obvious, that if there is a CC then we'll get info from it (ie: likely a sure scum lynch)

 

Amega's vote sounds like scum eager to us that to lynch someone they feel is a threat. obviously this must be the case since they targetted her last night. his post to me, seems almost excited that someone is willing to start the wagon on Sakaea and give him a legit reason to push her lynch.

[Red2111]

i've since revised my list.

 

 

right now i find these people to be most scummy

 

 

Tiinker & Blackie - for trying to discredit Moon's claim, and pushing for a CC

 

Ishy - for previous mentioned D1 activity & his unexplained 180 on Moon's claim

 

Amega - for the opportunistic vote on Sakaea

 

 

 

i'd be good with a lynch on any of these people, but i'm leaning most towards ishy. i've found him scummy since D1 and the 180 on Moons claim doesn't sit well with me. it came after tiink & Blackie started trying to spread doubt about her claim and feels like a scum tactic to me.

 

 

UNVOTE VOTE: ISHY

[Blackhoof]

oh.... you do have a point kiv... i feel, rather foolish now

 

unvote

[Tiinker]

i've since revised my list.

 

 

right now i find these people to be most scummy

 

 

Tiinker & Blackie - for trying to discredit Moon's claim, and pushing for a CC

 

 

I wasn't pushing for a CC. I was asking why she did it which then after me a lot of people asked as well so I don't see why it's the two of us getting FOS. We pointed it out as being odd and infact it was odd. If we weren't questioning things as strange as that this wouldn't be a mafia game.

[Tiinker]

People, sakaea was targeted last night. That means she is definitely not scum. On my phone, but I'm very likely to vote someone who is voting her when I get to a comp

 

That's not true. FOS at you! The Mafia could have just decided to not NK anybody to create this confusion. By saying it like it's a fact your leading people to believe the same.

[aemonkristen]

Tinker, have you ever known mafia to forgo a NK on Night 1? I have never seen it happen. The most logical explanation is that they used their NK and the healer blocked it. In this case, moon claims to have protected Sakaea. After Kiv make his comment about Sakaea and I being mod confirmed innocents, I was sure one of us would be dead in the morning. I believe Moon is the healer and, by association, that means Sakaea is town. Jack's attempt to discredit Sakaea wasn't very convincing. It seemed more like he was just trying to shift the focus to Sakaea than an actual logical argument and Amega's immediate jump to vote the same way looks pretty suspicious as well. That being said, my vote will stay on Ishy for the time being.

[Red2111]

Tiink, the more you talk, the more scummy ou seem on this subject. your FOSing kivam for doing what you did yourself, only you've said that if Moon is scum then so is Sakaea. not to mention that your still trying to cast doubt on Moon's claim. the more you try this by pushing for a CC and sowing doubt against her by trying to claim it might be a RB (when it's a basic game) or the scum would forgo their NK is trying a bit too hard.

 

you claim your not pushing for a CC, then why do you keep mentioning a CC in almost every single post?? the only reason why a lack of a CC would be odd is because you know she isn't the doc. theres a difference between questioning the claim (something that can't be proved until we get her corners report btw) and constantly trying to sow doubt on her claim, which is what your doing imo.

 

 

Okay I've never seen a doc claim so fast. You only had one vote on you! Now if you are the doctor you've just painted a massive target on yourself and if you're not and stay uncontested then the majority of us are going to believe you're the real doctor until someone else claims. I doubt any healer is going to step up and claim on Day 2.

 

here you sow doubt on her claim by directly doubting her claim and in two times you mention her being uncontested, which is besically asking for someone to CC her.

 

 

Well that makes me point even more valid the fact that she didn't protect herself. So mafia still had no idea who was the healer. Though I guess it counters it by the fact that you admitted it. But yeah it's not like I'm going to vote you any time soon I'm just putting it out points. Voting Moon is out of the question then unless someone counter claims.

 

here you emphasisize your doubt on moon stating that her lack of protecting herself proves that her claim is false. once again, pushing for a counter claim with the underlined bit, indicating that if someone were to CC you'd likely be voting her.

 

at the same time, why staying still expressing your doubt about her claim, you give yourself an out by contridicting yourself with the "a vote is out of the question"

 

 

 

Whys that?? After a claim that early for such a strong power role? FOS at you for saying that. Though I can't really do that if Moons the Doc and protected you and we don't have a NK. Well at least then we know 2 people who are pretty well confirmed unless someone else claims and proves it wrong in which case you're both scum.

 

again, you express doubt on her claim, you move onto linking Moon and Sakaea together and also once again point ot the lack of a CC.

[Tiinker]

Tiink, the more you talk, the more scummy ou seem on this subject. your FOSing kivam for doing what you did yourself, only you've said that if Moon is scum then so is Sakaea. not to mention that your still trying to cast doubt on Moon's claim. the more you try this by pushing for a CC and sowing doubt against her by trying to claim it might be a RB (when it's a basic game) or the scum would forgo their NK is trying a bit too hard.

 

you claim your not pushing for a CC, then why do you keep mentioning a CC in almost every single post?? the only reason why a lack of a CC would be odd is because you know she isn't the doc. theres a difference between questioning the claim (something that can't be proved until we get her corners report btw) and constantly trying to sow doubt on her claim, which is what your doing imo.

 

 

Okay I've never seen a doc claim so fast. You only had one vote on you! Now if you are the doctor you've just painted a massive target on yourself and if you're not and stay uncontested then the majority of us are going to believe you're the real doctor until someone else claims. I doubt any healer is going to step up and claim on Day 2.

 

here you sow doubt on her claim by directly doubting her claim and in two times you mention her being uncontested, which is besically asking for someone to CC her.

 

 

Well that makes me point even more valid the fact that she didn't protect herself. So mafia still had no idea who was the healer. Though I guess it counters it by the fact that you admitted it. But yeah it's not like I'm going to vote you any time soon I'm just putting it out points. Voting Moon is out of the question then unless someone counter claims.

 

here you emphasisize your doubt on moon stating that her lack of protecting herself proves that her claim is false. once again, pushing for a counter claim with the underlined bit, indicating that if someone were to CC you'd likely be voting her.

 

at the same time, why staying still expressing your doubt about her claim, you give yourself an out by contridicting yourself with the "a vote is out of the question"

 

 

 

Whys that?? After a claim that early for such a strong power role? FOS at you for saying that. Though I can't really do that if Moons the Doc and protected you and we don't have a NK. Well at least then we know 2 people who are pretty well confirmed unless someone else claims and proves it wrong in which case you're both scum.

 

again, you express doubt on her claim, you move onto linking Moon and Sakaea together and also once again point ot the lack of a CC.

 

I'm not pushing for a CC. I've said this like 9 times. Maybe we interpret it differently. When I say "pushing" for a CC I mean I'm not either intentionally laying the ground work or looking for one. In fact my posts weren't even directed at Moon but I'm defending myself and looking at others.

 

@My post after her claim. - Again what do you expect? Everyone to take it in quietly? Not to question it. Essentially by questioning it you may be "pushing" for a CC but how else is it supposed to be proved or disproved? You said it yourself in another game recently when you claimed the healer.

 

i can't prove i'm the healer other than by doing what i've already done; if your suspicious of me thats fine, i'd expect it given how this game works. the only way i can prove it is either the finder veiwing me (which i'd rather not since they'd have to reveal themselves to back me up and thats a bad idea), blocking a NK (which is WIFOM cause the scum can still twist that to cast doubt on my claim) or by you guys getting my corners report (which i'd like to avoid for obvious reasons).

 

So instead of just banking on the fact that she's healer and accepting it 100% I'd rather dig a bit deeper so I'm not just running around in the dark.

 

 

@What I said to Kiv - You say I did the same thing but I stated specifically how I feel on the subject. Kivam said "Fact is Sakea was targetted last night and Moon saved her". It's not fact at all.

 

@2nd one of my posts you quoted. No I did not contradict myself. I said it was strange but I wouldn't vote for her. UNLESS there was someone who counterclaimed - which is essentially the only way in the world you're going to lynch a doc. What am I supposed to say? "I won't lynch her period"? Then someone counterclaims and proves it wrong then be all like whoops guess I'll vote her now then. So yeah unless something happens to prove Moon wrong or scum like another claim or a finders viewing then yeah I won't be on her lynch. Why is that so scummy?

 

And again I express doubt at you both because you're saying it as fact which it isn't. And by saying that you strengthen the scums move if it is indeed a gambit. If it's not then fair enough but I don't get why you're cancelling it out so quickly. The probability of Moon not protecting herself on N1 and randomly protecting someone -Sakea- who the mafia also randomly choose to NK cos lets face it Night 1 NK's by the mafia are usually not all that tactful is a slim one. Yeah I'm expressing more doubt I get it..

[Tiinker]

Tinker, have you ever known mafia to forgo a NK on Night 1? I have never seen it happen. The most logical explanation is that they used their NK and the healer blocked it. In this case, moon claims to have protected Sakaea. After Kiv make his comment about Sakaea and I being mod confirmed innocents, I was sure one of us would be dead in the morning. I believe Moon is the healer and, by association, that means Sakaea is town. Jack's attempt to discredit Sakaea wasn't very convincing. It seemed more like he was just trying to shift the focus to Sakaea than an actual logical argument and Amega's immediate jump to vote the same way looks pretty suspicious as well. That being said, my vote will stay on Ishy for the time being.

 

I have once, and when it happened we lost the entire game because our fake role-blocker which didn't exist killed off everyone.

 

I'm not saying its likely but I'm saying we definitely shouldn't discount it so quickly either.

[Minuet]

You know I see a lot of finger pointing and honestly not sure.

 

Vote Ishy

 

 

Just cause you left my room . *giggles*

 

Can we get a vote count oh great and powerful Mod?

[Red2111]

I'm not pushing for a CC. I've said this like 9 times. Maybe we interpret it differently. When I say "pushing" for a CC I mean I'm not either intentionally laying the ground work or looking for one. In fact my posts weren't even directed at Moon but I'm defending myself and looking at others.

 

but when you keep mentioning the lack of CC it comes across as you doing exactly that. especially when one of your posts indicates that the only reason your not voting her is because theres a lack of one.

 

i never implied they were directed at Moon; infact my entire beef with you is about your focus on the lack of a CC and the fact that you seem to be pushing so hard for one in order to discredit her claim by continuing to focus on it.

 

 

@My post after her claim. - Again what do you expect? Everyone to take it in quietly? Not to question it. Essentially by questioning it you may be "pushing" for a CC but how else is it supposed to be proved or disproved? You said it yourself in another game recently when you claimed the healer.

 

first off, the game you quote is on going an it's poor form to discuss an on goign game let alone apply it to another game when each game has different factors in it. alot of times, this type of stuff will get you MKd, which is why we don't do that.

 

like i said, theres a difference between questioning it and what your doing, which imo is pushing the issue and trying to discredit her claim. when someone claims a power role you dont ask for a CC or lynch them to prove it; thats just dumb.

 

you keep in mind that it might be a gambit and look for indicators to help you decide; but at the same time you don't try to openly discredit the claim and lay the ground work for a possible lynch on them. in this game, nothing is proved until you get the corners report. because we all know this, the issue that her claim might be false is rather stupid to push and is why i FoS you over it. honestly, your reactions seem more like a scum whose panicky.

 

So instead of just banking on the fact that she's healer and accepting it 100% I'd rather dig a bit deeper so I'm not just running around in the dark.

 

the only way you can dig deeper on this issue is to have her lynched. you realize this, yet you still dig on the issue. this is why i say your attempting to discredit her claim. a healer claim is different than a finder claim, a finder claim can be proven by finding us scum. again, you know this, yet you still push the issue and are attempting to get people to question her claim. you keep doing it and your goign to get yourself lynched. becauseif your town your making yourself an easy target and if your scum your plot is very obvious.

 

 

@2nd one of my posts you quoted. No I did not contradict myself. I said it was strange but I wouldn't vote for her. UNLESS there was someone who counterclaimed - which is essentially the only way in the world you're going to lynch a doc. What am I supposed to say? "I won't lynch her period"? Then someone counterclaims and proves it wrong then be all like whoops guess I'll vote her now then. So yeah unless something happens to prove Moon wrong or scum like another claim or a finders viewing then yeah I won't be on her lynch. Why is that so scummy?

 

its a contradiction because while you state you wont vote her, you still imply that you'd like to vote her. it's scummy because its a scumtastic strategy that i've seen used many times and have used myself as scum.

 

as for what to say, everyone whose played this game a few times knows the implications of dealing with a CC on a role. the fact that you felt the need to state the obvious is what i'm FoSing you over. besides a CC doesn't prove Moon's innocence or guilt; the only thing that can do that is a corners report. yet you sit here and state that you believe a CC will prove her guilt, which says to me that your laying the ground work for a lynch against Moon by planting doubt about her claim.

 

And again I express doubt at you both because you're saying it as fact which it isn't.

 

i never stated that Moon's claim was fact. i've no idea if she's telling the truth about being the doc, but i've seen nothing scummy from her to make me question her. i understand why she would reveal early and i see no reason to doubt her claim so far. you on the other hand are pushign the subject rather hard which again is why your suspect #1 to me right now.

 

 

And by saying that you strengthen the scums move if it is indeed a gambit. If it's not then fair enough but I don't get why you're cancelling it out so quickly.

 

becuase until there is more "proof" either way or Moons gives me cause to doubt her claim, questioning it on thread and trying to pick apart her claim will only make it easier for the scum to succeed in lynching her.

 

 

The probability of Moon not protecting herself on N1 and randomly protecting someone -Sakea- who the mafia also randomly choose to NK cos lets face it Night 1 NK's by the mafia are usually not all that tactful is a slim one. Yeah I'm expressing more doubt I get it..

 

your 100% wrong in this. our D1 had different info than an average D1. kivam painted a huge target on Aemon & Sakaea's back by claiming their mod confirmed innocents. a tactic by scum is to take out Mod Confirmed innocents and even Finder confirmed innocents to help keep the level of known variables to a minimum. had i been healer, likely i would have protected one of them as well.

 

because i see the sense in what moon did, this is another reason i'm more likely to believe her claim.