Egwene should be doing more in the borderlands.

[NitroS]

During the Aiel War when Tamra Ospenya was the Amyrlin seat she ordered all Aes Sedai from the tower and sent them to go about healing of all the nations damaged by the Aiel. It was stated by Moiraine in New Spring that the only 2 Aes Sedai left in the tower were Tamra and her keeper.

 

Now Egwene is Amyrlin the last battle is upon the world, there are huge battles going on between the blight and the borderlanders and what is Egwene doing? Spending the majority of her time worrying about Gawyn. (sp) If you think what Rand done in Maradon, im sure a circle of 13 Aes Sedai with a ser angreal could achieve the same. Rand done the equivalent of 50,000+ men in the space of roughly an hour, imagine if just 4 circles of 13 travelled to each of the borders to help in the fighting the blight would be pushed back in no time. say it even takes 2 days to recover theres a month to the Fields of merrilor meeting and egwene still hasnt done anything (i know its only 1 day away at the end of TOM)

 

Egwene is one of my favourite characters upto TGS but then after all the talk of her being such an amazing Amyrlin she hasnt done anything that anyone else could have done (blah blah recitfied the ajahs all she did was tell them to talk to each other in public). Also the other thing that annoyed me is in the battle in TAR when perrin arrives, Egwene is in a duel with 2 black sisters when perrin arrives and she just asks where is Rand? why would she need to know where Rand is at that point in time she has already organised to meet him in a few days of that point why would she care. its like Brandon had run out of dialogue for her to talk to perrin about (she hasnt even seen him since what TSR?)

 

END rant. Sorry but egwene was my favourite character and then TOM happened where she is blabbering about Gawyn when the last battle is happening and her sisters are doing nothing in the tower.

[Generic_Aelfinn_2]

I have a feeling that Rand is quite a lot stronger than 13 linked AS...especially with the AoL weaves that he knows.

[Elan Tedronai]

 

Yo Tamra, I'm really happy for you, I'ma Let you finish, but egwene is the worst amyrlin of all time!! Of all time!!

[Kahsm]

Wait, let me get this straight...

 

Tamra failed to do something, but Egwene is worse for not having tried to do the same thing that Tamra failed to do? Is this the argument you are making?

[Leyrann]

Don't you think Egwene will send Aes Sedai to the armies that will fight the Shadowspawn? She just did not already do, and I can understand that. If there are only Aes Sedai to withstand the Shadowspawn, they'll soon get exhausted, and then the Shadowspawn will kill them. And imagine you yourself the male channelers at Maradon. If they are between the Trollocs, and they see Aes Sedai, the Aes Sedai won't even have time to get exhausted.

[Entreri]

"If you think what Rand done in Maradon, im sure a circle of 13 Aes Sedai with a ser angreal could achieve the same."

 

Very unlikely, unless the sa'angreal is around or above Callandor level.

 

 

Rand after his awakening in Dragonmount went beyond even LTT's capabilities.

 

32 channelers (25 Aes Sedai, 12 Asha'man) just managed to destroy an army of only 100,000 Trollocs and it was a close call, according to Logain (KoD).

 

These 32 channelers at that time included: Rand (with LTT in control), Logain (almost Rand's strength, thus level of Aginor), Alivia (Lanfear or nearly her strength, and likely knows more attacks weaves than anyone ever), Nyaneve with angreal (thus at least stronger than Lanfear, if not much stronger), Cadsuane with angreal (possibly at Lanfear strength level) etc...

 

Rand stood against an army of 500,000, if not 1 million (Ituralde thought nothing would stop it, short of the Seanchan), and defeated it.

 

Seanchan forces would be close to 1 million I would think.

[Mats Spare Hat]

I don't mean to nitpick, but can you point out where it is in New Spring, or quote it if you want, that Tamra decrees, or has been noted to decree that order to the AS?

 

Just seems a little odd to go saying Tamra & her Keeper were the only two AS in the tower, on account of such a stated goal as the OP noted...Except in, I think pretty much every single chapter, up until Moiraine goes on her merry way, we see other Aes Sedai featured in, or in walking/riding distance of the Tower?

 

I get your ranting about Egwene, not trying to debase any of that.

[NitroS]

I don't mean to nitpick, but can you point out where it is in New Spring, or quote it if you want, that Tamra decrees, or has been noted to decree that order to the AS?

 

Just seems a little odd to go saying Tamra & her Keeper were the only two AS in the tower, on account of such a stated goal as the OP noted...Except in, I think pretty much every single chapter, up until Moiraine goes on her merry way, we see other Aes Sedai featured in, or in walking/riding distance of the Tower?

 

I get your ranting about Egwene, not trying to debase any of that.

 

sorry i only listen to audio books, but its one of the first chapters where moiraine is sitting with the amyrlin in the corner with siuan and she says that those are the only 2 aes sedai in the tower as the rest are out healing.

[NitroS]

Wait, let me get this straight...

 

Tamra failed to do something, but Egwene is worse for not having tried to do the same thing that Tamra failed to do? Is this the argument you are making?

huh? i cant even see how you got or are what you are saying. Im saying egwene is a worse amyrlin because atleast tamra had all the aes sedai out helping during the aiel war, egwene hasnt done anything.

[Suttree]

Rand after his awakening in Dragonmount went beyond even LTT's capabilities.

 

32 channelers (25 Aes Sedai, 12 Asha'man) just managed to destroy an army of only 100,000 Trollocs and it was a close call, according to Logain (KoD).

 

These 32 channelers at that time included: Rand (with LTT in control), Logain (almost Rand's strength, thus level of Aginor), Alivia (Lanfear or nearly her strength, and likely knows more attacks weaves than anyone ever), Nyaneve with angreal (thus at least stronger than Lanfear, if not much stronger), Cadsuane with angreal (possibly at Lanfear strength level) etc...

 

Rand stood against an army of 500,000, if not 1 million (Ituralde thought nothing would stop it, short of the Seanchan), and defeated it.

 

Seanchan forces would be close to 1 million I would think.

 

You do have quite an imagination don't you Entreri?

 

One battle was a surprise attack that they barely caught in time. Rand's crew were stuck in a farmhouse, hard pressed to see what they were fighting in the dead of night until the Shadowspawn were nearly upon them. As impressive as it was in Maradon Rand had his enemies clearly arrayed in front of him on a field of battle and nicely clumped together when he attacked.

 

Most importantly stop making up numbers. You can not put an actual amount on either battle and in ToM it says he killed "Tens of thousands of dead trollocs smoldering" not a million, not a half million, not a hundred thousand. A portion of the original force escaped and ran away as trollocs are prone to do, the second things start looking bad. "Entire Legions of them turned and fled, stumbling up the hillside and over one another, fleeing back toward the Blight." The feat was impressive enough without the need for embellishment.

[NitroS]

"If you think what Rand done in Maradon, im sure a circle of 13 Aes Sedai with a ser angreal could achieve the same."

 

Very unlikely, unless the sa'angreal is around or above Callandor level.

 

 

Rand after his awakening in Dragonmount went beyond even LTT's capabilities.

 

32 channelers (25 Aes Sedai, 12 Asha'man) just managed to destroy an army of only 100,000 Trollocs and it was a close call, according to Logain (KoD).

 

These 32 channelers at that time included: Rand (with LTT in control), Logain (almost Rand's strength, thus level of Aginor), Alivia (Lanfear or nearly her strength, and likely knows more attacks weaves than anyone ever), Nyaneve with angreal (thus at least stronger than Lanfear, if not much stronger), Cadsuane with angreal (possibly at Lanfear strength level) etc...

 

Rand stood against an army of 500,000, if not 1 million (Ituralde thought nothing would stop it, short of the Seanchan), and defeated it.

 

Seanchan forces would be close to 1 million I would think.

i was thinking more of the the fluted wand that egwene uses. im not sure how the power levels work but im pretty sure that 13 aes sedai can hold more power then rand say if we had nyneave, romanda, lelaine, egwene, the old lady stronger then nyneave thats a novice, + more + the white fluted wand they would have rand power wise unaided covered easily. Then you talked about the age of legends weaves but naif described them of burning fire and lightning which every aes sedai uses sure there were alot more weaves but im sure that 13 aes sedai with a fluted wand could easily wipe out an army, i mean half trained ashaman and dedicated who would have had what 2 months to train were blowing up aiel with a dome of air all unaided and with no circles.

Don't you think Egwene will send Aes Sedai to the armies that will fight the Shadowspawn? She just did not already do, and I can understand that. If there are only Aes Sedai to withstand the Shadowspawn, they'll soon get exhausted, and then the Shadowspawn will kill them. And imagine you yourself the male channelers at Maradon. If they are between the Trollocs, and they see Aes Sedai, the Aes Sedai won't even have time to get exhausted.

From the time rand visited it was 1 month to the FOM egwene found out not much longer that all the borderlands were under attack. If she sent just 13 of her 300+ aes sedai left in the tower every 2nd day with another circle just to protect them the trollocs would be wiped out, heck if it was tamra she would have sent all 300 and the fight would have been over. Whats the point of sitting in the tower? If the shadowspawn have male channelers then how the heck are the borderlander armies surviving with nothing but soldiers when maradon fell to unaided trollocs.

[AquilaInfernus]

The cumulative power of 13 AS is not equivalent to the sum of their individual strengths, and it is a quirk that allows 13 to shield Rand regardless of his strength. Romanda is also the strongest AS in the tower at this point and also a Sitter (aside from Egwene), after that I believe the strength drops off considerably. The general weakness of AS at this point is concerning. Egwene also made the decision to hand control of the preparations for TG (which would include fighting Trollocs in the Borderlands) so that she would have exclusive control of dealings with the nations' leadership (including Rand as King of Illian).

 

Maradon was overrun in spite of Asha'man assistance, so much so that Ituralde orders them away to conserve their strength (and lives). It is unlikely AS presence would be able to turn the tide at this point.

 

And finally, I sincerely doubt Egwene spent all her time in that month fretting over Gawyn. She is dealing with nations, murders and the Dragon's plan to break the seals, not to mention the on going efforts to restore and unify the strength of the Tower.

[Suttree]

Maradon was overrun in spite of Asha'man assistance, so much so that Ituralde orders them away to conserve their strength (and lives). It is unlikely AS presence would be able to turn the tide at this point.

 

The strange thing is there where AS in Maradon with the Ashaman from the start. Given how hard pressed the the troops were it's very strange that Ituralde did not make use of them in the fighting. I've pointed this out a few times and have never received a satisfactory answer as to why it would be he case.

[csarmi]

The cumulative power of 13 AS is not equivalent to the sum of their individual strengths, and it is a quirk that allows 13 to shield Rand regardless of his strength.

 

I never understood that quirk myself. I don't think that's even true. It's just what AS believe, because that's the best they can do, so it must be enough.

[csarmi]

The last month of the timeline is completely unbeliaveble to me. I think it's all just a huge messup really. BS (or maybe even RJ before him) just couldn't make it work.

 

What was Egwene and Rand doing for a month? And come on, Egwene spent three months in the tower?! With BA hunters and all those plots around her?

 

Not to mention all that standing in one place at the Black Tower I mean, come on. And no news? No communication? When everyone has travelling?

[Saitan]

-Mother, reports are saying the Trolloc invasion of the borderlands has begun.

-Oh, How are the borderlands doing?

-Falling like flies, mother.

-Gather the armies we need to go bully Rand into not defeating the dark one without my blessing and having kissed my ring.

-What about the borderlands, mother?

-Uh? Oh, write some letters of condolences to whoever is left alive, I need to go bully Gawyn now.

-As you wish, mother.

[NitroS]

The cumulative power of 13 AS is not equivalent to the sum of their individual strengths, and it is a quirk that allows 13 to shield Rand regardless of his strength. Romanda is also the strongest AS in the tower at this point and also a Sitter (aside from Egwene), after that I believe the strength drops off considerably. The general weakness of AS at this point is concerning. Egwene also made the decision to hand control of the preparations for TG (which would include fighting Trollocs in the Borderlands) so that she would have exclusive control of dealings with the nations' leadership (including Rand as King of Illian).

 

Maradon was overrun in spite of Asha'man assistance, so much so that Ituralde orders them away to conserve their strength (and lives). It is unlikely AS presence would be able to turn the tide at this point.

 

And finally, I sincerely doubt Egwene spent all her time in that month fretting over Gawyn. She is dealing with nations, murders and the Dragon's plan to break the seals, not to mention the on going efforts to restore and unify the strength of the Tower.

I didnt say 13 because thats how many it takes to shield any man, i said 13 because thats the largest circle possible without the aid of a man. I never said its equivalent to the sum of individual strengths, egwene states that with 2 novices she nearly had as much strength as she was use to (when she couldnt light a candle with the power because of fork root) so the power of 2 novices no where near there peaks gave her enough for gateways etc. Romanda is never stated to be stronger then Lelaine she is said to be the same strength level as Lelaine, Romanda, moiraine, siuan and 1 other. Egwene and Nyneave are both stronger then Romanda and nyneave was in the tower at the end of TOM so thats 2 higher. Using novices for the source would be better then aes sedai as alot of the new novices are stronger then most aes sedai.

 

I dont see the point of you mentioning that egwene has control over rand thats got nothing to do with egwene not acting on the war as that happened towards the end of TOM.

 

Ituralde said that he had 2 ashamans that had already been weakened by weaving gateways, yet the 2 were able to hold of a bottleneck for over an hour despite only knowing how to channel for at maximum a year.

 

I was being literal when i said thats all she done when if you read she was trying to mend the rift between the ajahs......

 

 

Im merely iterating the point that tamra sent off all the aes sedai to help during the aiel war yet egwene hasnt sent any sisters for healing or to battle the forsaken as if they sent 80 aes sedai to each of the borderlands they would be destroyed in the space of a few hours. giving them weeks still to rest before the last battle.

[NitroS]

-Mother, reports are saying the Trolloc invasion of the borderlands has begun.

-Oh, How are the borderlands doing?

-Falling like flies, mother.

-Gather the armies we need to go bully Rand into not defeating the dark one without my blessing and having kissed my ring.

-What about the borderlands, mother?

-Uh? Oh, write some letters of condolences to whoever is left alive, I need to go bully Gawyn now.

-As you wish, mother.

Haha i could see that being in the book.

[Kahsm]

Rand after his awakening in Dragonmount went beyond even LTT's capabilities.

 

32 channelers (25 Aes Sedai, 12 Asha'man) just managed to destroy an army of only 100,000 Trollocs and it was a close call, according to Logain (KoD).

 

These 32 channelers at that time included: Rand (with LTT in control), Logain (almost Rand's strength, thus level of Aginor), Alivia (Lanfear or nearly her strength, and likely knows more attacks weaves than anyone ever), Nyaneve with angreal (thus at least stronger than Lanfear, if not much stronger), Cadsuane with angreal (possibly at Lanfear strength level) etc...

 

Rand stood against an army of 500,000, if not 1 million (Ituralde thought nothing would stop it, short of the Seanchan), and defeated it.

 

Seanchan forces would be close to 1 million I would think.

 

You do have quite an imagination don't you Entreri?

 

One battle was a surprise attack that they barely caught in time. Rand's crew were stuck in a farmhouse, hard pressed to see what they were fighting in the dead of night until the Shadowspawn were nearly upon them. As impressive as it was in Maradon Rand had his enemies clearly arrayed in front of him on a field of battle and nicely clumped together when he attacked.

 

Most importantly stop making up numbers. You can not put an actual amount on either battle and in ToM it says he killed "Tens of thousands of dead trollocs smoldering" not a million, not a half million, not a hundred thousand. A portion of the original force escaped and ran away as trollocs are prone to do, the second things start looking bad. "Entire Legions of them turned and fled, stumbling up the hillside and over one another, fleeing back toward the Blight." The feat was impressive enough without the need for embellishment.

 

Don't even try man. This went on for pages and pages in another thread. I even broke down the entire description of the battle and explained how it could easily work without being a "god". And explained away every quote he had that may have 'slightly' suggested "godliness" he just ignores them all.

 

As for the circle of 13 Aes Sedai thing: The problem is Rand is an agile channeler. And the circle strength MAY add a few extra flows to the Aes Sedai who controls the circle, but they aren't going to get anywhere near Rand's agility, even if the overall power is equal. Maybe Egwene could lead it and get close to Rand in a a full circle of strong Aes Sedai where she's not doped up on forkroot *lights the fuse*

[Suttree]

-Mother, reports are saying the Trolloc invasion of the borderlands has begun.

-Oh, How are the borderlands doing?

-Falling like flies, mother.

 

Egwene: Where in God's name are the rulers and the better parts of their armies? I have had reports from Far Madding of them vacationing to the south.

 

Let me take over the Blue Network from Siuan so I can gather intelligence as to better assess what is going on. Gathering intelligence is the first step in fighting a war after all.(Oh wait, that's actually what happened)

[Mats Spare Hat]

"During the Aiel War when Tamra Ospenya was the Amyrlin seat she ordered all Aes Sedai from the tower and sent them to go about healing of all the nations damaged by the Aiel. It was stated by Moiraine in New Spring that the only 2 Aes Sedai left in the tower were Tamra and her keeper."

 

Found my copy of New Spring so we can clear that up:

 

It was on the third day of the Battle of the Shining Walls, as noted by Moiraine:

 

"Tamra & Gitara were the only two Aes Sedai actually in the Tower at that moment, unless some had returned in the night. There had been talk of injured soldiers in such numbers that all sisters with the smallest ability in Healing were needed, but no one had said straight out that that was where they were going"

 

It contradicts the notion that the AS were sent to go about healing all the nations...In fact they were out in, more than likely, a less than 20 mile radius, healing the wounded in the armies of the Grand Alliance...All within, as witnessed in the amount of time it later takes Siuan & Moiraine to journey to various encampments, a day, if not less than a days travel.

 

Tamra sent those Aes Sedai out to heal those injured in the Battle of the Shining Walls, right on the doorstep of the Tower...It's a real, real far cry from saying she sent them all out to heal nations in the Aiel War - And, it's also concretely stated the Aes Sedai didn't involve themselves in said Battle, until the third day, also the last day of noted Battle.

 

After such time, we see the Tower occupied by numerous Aes Sedai, in chapters that directly follow, which corroborates that those Aes Sedai weren't even more than a stones throw away from home, so to speak - within a day's travel by horse.

 

 

I bring all of this up because you're basing your critique of Egwene on the supposition that Tamra ordered the Aes Sedai out of the Tower into the world to heal the nations during the whole of the Aiel War. In truth, they didn't venture further than their own block, two days after the one battle they're noted to have participated any action in had already started, on their doorstep, and they were home before dinner the next day.

[sleepinghour]

After such time, we see the Tower occupied by numerous Aes Sedai, in chapters that directly follow, which corroborates that those Aes Sedai weren't even more than a stones throw away from home, so to speak - within a day's travel by horse.

Back then, the Tower didn't have Traveling. Egwene and the Hall could easily send sisters to the Borderlands and have them back the same day. They don't even have to fight; they could help transport food or evacuate people from the worst affected areas. Not much to ask for considering the Borderlanders regularly give the Tower money.

[Mats Spare Hat]

After such time, we see the Tower occupied by numerous Aes Sedai, in chapters that directly follow, which corroborates that those Aes Sedai weren't even more than a stones throw away from home, so to speak - within a day's travel by horse.

Back then, the Tower didn't have Traveling. Egwene and the Hall could easily send sisters to the Borderlands and have them back the same day. They don't even have to fight; they could help transport food or evacuate people from the worst affected areas. Not much to ask for considering the Borderlanders regularly give the Tower money.

 

 

Oh I'm not trying to argue what Egwene could/should/might/has/would do - If people want to bash Egwene go ahead, but Tamra Ospenya didn't do what the OP is saying she did. The Aes Sedai weren't ordered out of the Tower to heal nations. They didn't even go out of their own backyard, two days after the battle royale had started, on their stoop.

[XXX]

 

 

Don't even try man. This went on for pages and pages in another thread. I even broke down the entire description of the battle and explained how it could easily work without being a "god". And explained away every quote he had that may have 'slightly' suggested "godliness" he just ignores them all.

 

As for the circle of 13 Aes Sedai thing: The problem is Rand is an agile channeler. And the circle strength MAY add a few extra flows to the Aes Sedai who controls the circle, but they aren't going to get anywhere near Rand's agility, even if the overall power is equal. Maybe Egwene could lead it and get close to Rand in a a full circle of strong Aes Sedai where she's not doped up on forkroot *lights the fuse*

 

Immaterial even if a circle of 13 has same or greater power than Rand...no AS knows the AoL weaves which Rand uses. The AS will throw lightening and fire balls and they have limited effect, Rand uses weaves guaranteed to cause carnage against massed opponents,which is how the Trollocs attack.

[Kahsm]

 

 

Don't even try man. This went on for pages and pages in another thread. I even broke down the entire description of the battle and explained how it could easily work without being a "god". And explained away every quote he had that may have 'slightly' suggested "godliness" he just ignores them all.

 

As for the circle of 13 Aes Sedai thing: The problem is Rand is an agile channeler. And the circle strength MAY add a few extra flows to the Aes Sedai who controls the circle, but they aren't going to get anywhere near Rand's agility, even if the overall power is equal. Maybe Egwene could lead it and get close to Rand in a a full circle of strong Aes Sedai where she's not doped up on forkroot *lights the fuse*

 

Immaterial even if a circle of 13 has same or greater power than Rand...no AS knows the AoL weaves which Rand uses. The AS will throw lightening and fire balls and they have limited effect, Rand uses weaves guaranteed to cause carnage against massed opponents,which is how the Trollocs attack.

 

I agree with this 100% and have argued as much before. This is the reason Rand is so effective at Maradon. Even Egwene uses the classics defending the tower.

 

I would have liked to see her air laso some to'raken and smash them together and stuff. hehehe