Rand's Sickness

[DocBean]

I believe Rand's sickness is caused from him channeling incorrectly.

 

I need to reread it, because it’s been years, but I believe in the first book Moraine was explaining to Egwene why she needed to be taught how to Channel; it might have been in New Spring. She said that women often die not long after channeling if not taught correctly. She said something like they will get sick after channeling for the first time, and with each time they channel they will get sick again sooner and sooner until they get sick at the point of grasping the source. She said when the sickness goes away completely, then they will most definitely die soon after, and nothing can be done at that point. I looked for that to happen to Rand after rereading all of that a couple years ago, and I remember Rand getting sick while traveling to Camelyn with Matt, probably after calling the lighting, and I thought it happened a couple times throughout the first few books. I think Saidar / Saidin are more similar than we once thought, and maybe that's what Cadsuane will need to teach Rand.

 

Someone please help me find that scene cause I’m starting to think I just made all that up in my head.

[RobertAlexWillis]

You are referring to an explanation that Moiraine gives to Nynaeve as to why Egwene needs to come to the Tower for training, in The Eye of the World, chapter 21 Listen to the Wind. However, Rand has passed the danger point that Moiraine was describing, not the least due to his training with Asmodean, and his sickness has other symptoms that Moiraine does not describe, most importantly, seeing and sensing the presence of "the stranger from Shadar Logoth", who the reader knows is Moridin. The sickness he is experiencing now is almost certainly a side effect of the incident of crossing their streams of balefire in Shadar Logoth. Whether it is the result of touching the True Power with the One Power, or a paradox caused by crossing balefire streams, the ultimate effect remains to be seen. Some contend that the connection will eventually cause Rand and Moridin's souls to swap physical bodies, so that when Alivia "helps Rand die" she is actually killing Moridin's soul. Other theories vary. For now, it has only given each man an awareness of the other, and apparently causes similar nausea in both (see Knife of Dreams, chapter 21 Within the Stone).

[TheDiceAgain...]

Well, you're correct and incorrect at the same time. The first few times a man or woman with the "spark" (i.e. a "wilder" in AS terminology) channels, they will get sick. Rand experiences it several times, each time soon after he has done something with the One Power unknowingly. Examples, he gets sick in Baerlon after the all night flight where he kept Bela from falling behind to save Egween, on the way to Caemlyn after the lightning strike in the barn with Mat and a couple others as well. Nynaeve also tells the story of getting sick after her first "miraculous" cure when she was a Wisdom's apprentice. This happens to every "sparker". If they manage to survive, they are fine from then on.

 

Rand's current channelling sickness, on the other hand has something to do with the connection to Moridin which was forged when Rand's stream of balefire made with the One Power intersected with Moridin's stream which was created with the True Power. We don't exactly know the cause just yet, however, it is not the normal sickness that can kill "wilders" when they first start channelling.

 

(edit: Dangit Robert, we did it again...)

[RobertAlexWillis]

Great minds, and all that.

[DocBean]

How can we be sure that Rand's sickness is connected to the Wanderer at all, and that the Wanderer was Moridin? And what is his master plan with Rand? It seems he's had ample opportunities to kill Rand or LTT as we saw before Lews Created Dragonmount.

 

He knows the DO wants to destroy the Wheel itself, and seems to be fine with it, why wouldn't he want Rand out of the picture by now?

[Trib4l]

We have some clues that the Wanderer was someone who knew Sammael and Lews Therin personally. He makes comments that give as much away during Rand's encounter in SL.

 

Once you make the leap to the Wanderer being Moridin, from his other POV sections it's not hard to see that he feels he's playing the game from both sides. Personally I think Moridin believes he can outwit the DO and win the battle for his own purposes which have not yet been revealed - other than his extreme desire to kill Rand/LTT and have his permanent death attributed only to him and not some lacky.

[Bob T Dwarf]

My guess is that Moridin does NOT want to kill Rand.

 

He DOES want to subjugate LTT. He desperately wants LTT to grovel to him. To acknowledge him as the better man.

 

That I think is more important to Elan Morin Tedronai than whether the sun continues to rise.

[RobertAlexWillis]

The Moridin POV in the prologue to The Path of Daggers is important to understanding how he thinks of himself and how he thinks of Rand. His internal description of how the Fisher can move in shah'rah is directly related to how he is trying to maneuver Rand. He tried to destroy Rand directly a few times, and none of them turned out very well, remember? So he has chosen instead now to try manipulation. I'm not sure we've been given enough information to forsee exactly what his ends are. I'm not even sure they are rational: Moridin is not necessarily sane.

 

Now ...

 

How can we be sure that Rand's sickness is connected to the Wanderer at all, and that the Wanderer was Moridin?

 

We can be sure that the sickness is related to the Wanderer, because when he gets sick, he sees the Wanderer's face and feels his presence. (Knife of Dreams, chapter 21 Within the Stone). We know the Wanderer is Moridin because he matches Moridin's physical description and uses the True Power.

 

And what is his master plan with Rand? It seems he's had ample opportunities to kill Rand or LTT as we saw before Lews Created Dragonmount.

 

I don't think we have enough info to know the details of his master plan yet. And each time he has tried to destroy Rand directly, he's been cut off from the Dark One, wounded, and once, killed.

 

He knows the DO wants to destroy the Wheel itself, and seems to be fine with it, why wouldn't he want Rand out of the picture by now?

 

Perhaps the submission of threads within the Pattern is necessary for the Dark One to be free of the constraints of the Pattern. In that case, converting the Dragon would be a big help to the Dark One. Whatever the specific reason, indications are that Rand's submission to the Dark One would help matters even more than his death would.

[SinisterDeath]

Didn't KOD completely confirm that Morrodin was the guy Rand met in Shadar Logoth?

Consider that, with the fact that Morodin was the same guy sneaking around spying on like 4 other forsaken, all within the same subsequent chapters...

 

I think he was spying on sammauel and semi? Or whoever it was that was being his pet with the seanchan.

Then he talked with either moghy, grendie, semi, or whomever before finally rand got off his arse, launched a battle in sammaels 'city', fled to shadar logoth, where eventually morodin somewhat helped rand. Not that Rand really needed the help, he was just there, witnessing it all, both got into trouble, and bing bang boom, they crossed the streams.

NEVER CROSS THE STREAMS!! :P *ghost busters, egon ect*

[Alia]

I dont know about the whole "in a bad place at the wrong time thing" with Moridin. Hes shown how capable he is at evading people and so I have trouble believing that he stayed because he had to. I think that he didnt want Rand killed and that was why he helped him. He did state, quite, emphatically, that no one besides him was to touch Rand. I recently wondered if that was because if Rand were killed, what would happen to that link? They both get sick- maybe Moridin would die? Maybe thats why he wants to be the one to "kill" him?

[DocBean]

"they both get sick" ???

do they? we haven't seen Moridin channel much, I can't remember it anyway, not since the crossed flows anyway.

 

Is that why he didn't show up at the cleansing?

[SinisterDeath]

If I'm not mistaken, KoD showed that The 'link' between then works both ways. ie when rand saw the mans face, Morrodin could see rands face to. This basically confirms that, he to gets sick when he channels, if he also has the same symptoms..

[Luckers]

Additionally before the incident Moridin DID use saidin, now he seems to use only the True Power. And he looked ill when Rand percieves him.

 

As for Moridin's plans for Rand... i personally believe he reissued the no-kill order because he's worried over what effect Rand's death will have on him. Prior to that he wanted Rand kept alive because of the chance that he could be turned, that seems relatively unlikely now, and accordingly he removed the no-kill order. Him giving it again at this stage doesn't make sense to me purely on the basis of whats best for the shadow. No, i think he has realised the link between them, and freaked out. After all one need merely look at warders to grow concerned over what will happen to you when a person your mentally linked to dies.

[algspkr]

Additionally before the incident Moridin DID use saidin, now he seems to use only the True Power. And he looked ill when Rand percieves him.

 

As for Moridin's plans for Rand... i personally believe he reissued the no-kill order because he's worried over what effect Rand's death will have on him. Prior to that he wanted Rand kept alive because of the chance that he could be turned, that seems relatively unlikely now, and accordingly he removed the no-kill order. Him giving it again at this stage doesn't make sense to me purely on the basis of whats best for the shadow. No, i think he has realised the link between them, and freaked out. After all one need merely look at warders to grow concerned over what will happen to you when a person your mentally linked to dies.

That is a very funny theory Luckers, but it also seems very probable.