How to destroy cuendillar

[kraefzke]

I was wondering: We know that TP can destroy cuendillar and that there is one other way. (And I'm aware this must have already been discussed...somewhere. But I can't find that thread, so I can't check if my theory is old for you, for me it's new).

 

The only other way I can think of is to take some object of cuendillar into TAR while going there in the flesh, hand it to Perrin³⁰⁰⁰ and ask him to unmake this.

 

What other theories are there?

[Leyrann]

I can't remember an other way to destroy Cuendillar. I thought the TP was the only way. And you can't destroy it as you said, with entering TAR in the flesh. Someone has asked BS (I think, because of the subject of the question) if when Rand could go to TAR in the flesh, and then imagine his left had, and go back, his hand would be back. BS said not.

[kraefzke]

The one has nothing to do with the other: You can take nothing out of TAR that was made there, but that doesn't mean you can destroy nothing there (except of course, if BS said so right out).

 

You tell me that because I cannot bring a TAR-stone home from there, that I also cannot destroy a stone from home in TAR. That is not logical.

 

Edit: Of course you can't remember any other way, because the only source we have is BS telling us that there is another that we haven't seen as of yet. Just was wondering about theories concerning that other way.

Edited July 18, 2011 by kraefzke

[OptimusPrime]

I wonder if Fain could destroy it

[Ashlyn]

I wonder if Fain could destroy it

 

Not to trivialise the discussion, but that gave me a mental picture of Fain, confronted with a disk of cuendillar, saying "Hmm, cookie!" and biting it in half..

[kraefzke]

I wonder if Fain could destroy it

 

Not to trivialise the discussion, but that gave me a mental picture of Fain, confronted with a disk of cuendillar, saying "Hmm, cookie!" and biting it in half..

 

 

LOL

 

Trivialisation tolerated and appreciated!

 

THIS ONCE ;)

[thevillagecouncil]

so sort of on topic, if you can't destroy something from the real world in TAR, does that mean the dreamspike was manufactured from inside TAR? or was it, in fact, only able to be destroyed through the power of a nightmare? can nightmares destroy cuendellar?

[kraefzke]

To my understanding it couldn't have been created from inside TAR, because then it would have only be able to exist in TAR. So it must have been manufactured in the real world, but with the ability to enter TAR in the flesh (or rather, in the metal) and do something there.

 

As to whether nightmares can destroy cuendillar: Might be. If I'm correct with my theory, that someone with great mastery over TAR would be able to do it there, then a nightmare might also work. But then, there is also the possibilty that cuendillar survives nightmares.

[herid]

I was wondering: We know that TP can destroy cuendillar and that there is one other way. (And I'm aware this must have already been discussed...somewhere. But I can't find that thread, so I can't check if my theory is old for you, for me it's new).

 

The only other way I can think of is to take some object of cuendillar into TAR while going there in the flesh, hand it to Perrin³⁰⁰⁰ and ask him to unmake this.

 

What other theories are there?

I like the idea of using TAR to do it but I suspect it's something else.

I asked BS at a recent signing if it's possible to figure out the second method to destroy cuendillar based on what we know and he said no.

This tells me that it's something really new which should rule out trying to do it the way Perrin destroyed the dreamspike or anything similar.

[randsc]

Nothing made in TAR can be brought out.

 

Except arrows, thorns....

[FarShainMael]

We are told in CoT17 that cuendillar is made by weaving Earth, Air and Fire onto iron. We also know that weaves (at least Gateway weaves) can be unpicked, though it's dangerous. Could the cuendillar weave also be unpicked?

[Zentari]

We are told in CoT17 that cuendillar is made by weaving Earth, Air and Fire onto iron. We also know that weaves (at least Gateway weaves) can be unpicked, though it's dangerous. Could the cuendillar weave also be unpicked?

Wouldn't that require that the weave is still active ? If it was a one-shot (as it seems to be), then you couldn't unweave it.Plus , the material's own nature kinda throws a wedge into that plan.

[mb]

Besides Gateways, these weaves have a way of becoming undone::

-Compulsion (Gathering Storm)

-blocks of Air (Shadow Rising)

 

 

Cuendillar, these weaves might be tested on it::

-Traveling/Skimming

-Deathgates

 

If those do not work, the One Power equivalent of the True Power weave might be tested.

[jsbrads]

The Dreamspike was destroyed by lava, so any high temperature source should have no problem destroying it...

Apparently it is not like the adam, which resisted Elayne fire weave.

 

Cuellindar is destroyed by 3000 yrs of exposure to corruption and decay a la the DO, never heard of TP being effective.

[FarShainMael]

We are told in CoT17 that cuendillar is made by weaving Earth, Air and Fire onto iron. We also know that weaves (at least Gateway weaves) can be unpicked, though it's dangerous. Could the cuendillar weave also be unpicked?

Wouldn't that require that the weave is still active ? If it was a one-shot (as it seems to be), then you couldn't unweave it.Plus , the material's own nature kinda throws a wedge into that plan.

 

It also throws a wedge into forming the stuff in the first place..

[Zentari]

We are told in CoT17 that cuendillar is made by weaving Earth, Air and Fire onto iron. We also know that weaves (at least Gateway weaves) can be unpicked, though it's dangerous. Could the cuendillar weave also be unpicked?

Wouldn't that require that the weave is still active ? If it was a one-shot (as it seems to be), then you couldn't unweave it.Plus , the material's own nature kinda throws a wedge into that plan.

 

It also throws a wedge into forming the stuff in the first place..

Not so.The weave affects the metal before it's turned.Afterwards, when it's immune to OP ,it's kinda hard to unmake it.

 

The creation doesn't contradict anything.

[FarShainMael]

The weave must affect metal during the turning process, no matter how quickly it transforms. RJ knew enough about physics to be aware of this.

 

As for being immune to the OP - is this actually said? The Glossary says that 'Any known force used in an attempt to break it is absorbed, making it stronger', but any Aes Sedai worth her salt could find a way around that wording

Edited July 20, 2011 by FarShainMael

[lilltempest]

We are told in CoT17 that cuendillar is made by weaving Earth, Air and Fire onto iron. We also know that weaves (at least Gateway weaves) can be unpicked, though it's dangerous. Could the cuendillar weave also be unpicked?

Wouldn't that require that the weave is still active ? If it was a one-shot (as it seems to be), then you couldn't unweave it.Plus , the material's own nature kinda throws a wedge into that plan.

 

A Warder bond is not an "active" weave (from what we've seen, the weaves settles on the person and disappears) yet it can be removed, according to RJ himself. My guess with cuendillar, as well as with the Warder bond, is that it takes a special sort of Delving weave to find it, then it must be unraveled. Given that Nynaeve and Damer both seem to have an awesome talent for Delving, I would bet that they could find a way to destroy cuendillar given a bit of time.

[Leyrann]

Maybe you can destroy it with Balefire woven of Saidin and Saidar.

[Zentari]

The weave must affect metal during the turning process, no matter how quickly it transforms. RJ knew enough about physics to be aware of this.

 

As for being immune to the OP - is this actually said? The Glossary says that 'Any known force used in an attempt to break it is absorbed, making it stronger', but any Aes Sedai worth her salt could find a way around that wording

True , but not if it acquires it's ....immunity after it has been completed (as in,the part is transformed wholly into cuendillar).If that weren't the case , wouldn't it be kinda impossible to make it in the first place ?

 

Also true on the second part but so far we haven't seen a way to actually break it.

[BananaOnDrugs]

You balefire the one that made it.

About gates...the cuendillar will absorb/destroy the gate before it appears.

About the Dreamspike...I think it was made in both TAR and on Randland. Like a circle of AoL channelers+dreamers half asleep doing the same thing both in the dream and irl.

[Luckers]

I asked Maria about this, and got RAFO'd. The one thought I can think to add is this--people say that to use the One Power on cuendillar makes it stronger--which is an odd thought. How can you make something indestructable stronger? This leads to three points.

 

1. People at one stage knew that there was a way to destroy cuendillar.

2. Using the One Power on cuendillar makes it more resistant to that method.

3. Given people knew of it, it seems unlikely that it refers to something like Fain, or even the True Power, (both sources of power are relatively unique).

 

My guess is that this second method does not directly destroy it, but instead reverses the process (or perhaps continues the process and changes it into some third thing which isn't indestructable), turning it back to its base metal, and that the more One Power it is exposed to, the harder it is to then reverse the process.

[FarShainMael]

We are told in CoT17 that cuendillar is made by weaving Earth, Air and Fire onto iron. We also know that weaves (at least Gateway weaves) can be unpicked, though it's dangerous. Could the cuendillar weave also be unpicked?

Wouldn't that require that the weave is still active ? If it was a one-shot (as it seems to be), then you couldn't unweave it.Plus , the material's own nature kinda throws a wedge into that plan.

 

A Warder bond is not an "active" weave (from what we've seen, the weaves settles on the person and disappears) yet it can be removed, according to RJ himself. My guess with cuendillar, as well as with the Warder bond, is that it takes a special sort of Delving weave to find it, then it must be unraveled. Given that Nynaeve and Damer both seem to have an awesome talent for Delving, I would bet that they could find a way to destroy cuendillar given a bit of time.

 

A sideways thought.. The dissipation of the Warder weave on the death of his Aes Sedai might be what causes the 'death rage'. Astonishing it doesn't kill him, thinking of what happened to that gateway!

Edited July 21, 2011 by FarShainMael

[jsbrads]

Maybe you can destroy it with Balefire woven of Saidin and Saidar.

 

Pretty sure balefire is just balefire even if woven with two sources, as a matter of fact should double woven be somehow stronger than ordinary balefire that should just make it stronger...

[he who comes with a bong]

i think its kinda along the lines of how say like a fire ball is flying through the air then poof its gone by some other weave acting on it so maybee there is some other type of weave that we dont know about and they dont know about that counter acts the first weave in the first place kinda like cancelling it out

 

just a thought