Demandred

[PsyQuestor]

There's nothing to say that the job in Murandy ties him down much. Brilliant tacticians know how to delegate.

 

If your position is secure, delegating is all fine and dandy. But when you are trying to unite a nation, especially one as fractured as Murandy, you really need to be there in person.

It's not exactly clear when he showed up in Murandy, but I'm betting it's not until after LOC. He was there enough to rally the Murandians against the Band, and after that, he likely focused them on Andor, which requires not much work on his part at all, especially with the recent border change. Plus, he's been more or less out of the Black Tower since Moridin returned - it seems Taim answers directly to Moridin now. That doesn't mean that it's not still Demandred's plan. They've been building the wall since TPOD, and the Black Tower was impressive before Moridin returned. I'm guessing Moridin had a dreamspike and Demandred incorporated it into the plans when Moridin returned. That's when they started building the wall, which even Logain noted made not the least bit of sense. A wall is nothing for an army of channelers, and only an army of channelers would dare attack the Black Tower. So, we've got the Legion of the Dragon, almost certainly incorporated into Demandred's plan, and the 10,000 mercenaries. How much work do you think this actually requires? I doubt he set the mercenaries up. They came for the reasons Elayne said they came. But Elayne doesn't have the gold to buy them, and Demandred does. Other than that, all he has to do is order around some Darkfriends - something Rahvin always found time for - and balefire some things (which he probably does as seldom as he can get away with). And you can bet he's constantly thinking about how to win the war, and that every little advantage that comes his way will be incorporated into the plans. Like Talmanes.

 

What a shame. here you take time to guess what he might be involved with, and you just limit yourself to the most obvious options. Like being asked to serve a nice dinner, and delivering hot dogs.

 

Lets look at it from a different perspective. Why would Demandreds whereabouts be this huge secret, if he is just posing as some king in a wee little country? Looking at the other forsaken, RJ never hesitated to reveal both location and alter ego. Even Osan'gar was reveald straigh away, and that could have been a huge thing if the revelation had been saved for later.

If it is as simple as Demandred posing as Rhoedran, it does not make any sense to keep it a secret. hat is the big revelation, that murandy plays for the wrong team? We already know that, RJ planted a huge sign screaming *Suspicious' in Murandy, to make sure we got it.

Storytelling for Dummies says 'The bigger the secret is, the bigger the pay-off has to be'. Having it as simple as Demandred posing as Rhoedran would be perhaps the single biggest let-down in the entire series. Which does not quite fit with Brandon considering Demandred one of his favourite characters in AMOL.

 

I didn't knew there was something suspicious in Murandy until I figured out that Demandred was King Roedran. And for me, Osan'gar was revealed at Shadar Logoth, and not before. And I only figured out who Demandred was by reading theories about Demandred, discussing with my brother (Jarid Sarand and Lunar Galgan have also be suspicious for me), and then putting it together with "my rule is secure", and when he is mentioned and when he could not have appeared. And if there is another one who could be Demandred, or so someone says, then I look if I can rule him out. Until now, I was able to do that with everyone. Who do YOU think he is, Majsju?

[Leyrann]

Why did you quote this?

[Dreggs Morlock]

As to your theory, Terez... it is a good one, backed up nicely, but until we RAFO, thats all it is.

And? The same goes for most theories, but some are more supported by the evidence than others.

 

Be careful not to respond to EVERYONE who posts, or it starts to feel as though you are being defensive. Your theory stands on its own nicely.

I will respond to however many people I like. I don't care if people think I'm being defensive; when I see points argued badly, I like to respond.

 

...like Luckers, I think he has a lot of pots on the stove

Everybody thinks that.

 

Further, if Ghealdan has sufficient numbers to be a problem for the Allies of Light, its news to me

Ghealdan? We're talking about Murandy. Alliandre is the Queen of Ghealdan. As for Murandy's forces...Brandon himself said that Roedran would have never hired the Band if there weren't an army worth gathering there. Murandy has always been a weak nation because of its internal divisiveness, not because it doesn't have a substantial population. Now that Roedran has united them, they are no doubt a force to be reckoned with. Still only a small part of Demandred's plans for Caemlyn, but hardly insignificant.

 

EASY.... I meant no disrespect.

 

And I truly apologize for typing Ghealdan while meaning Murandy. Most here would say "I think you mean Murandy" and move on, but your decision to infer that I MEANT Ghealdan is... well, its a little mean. Alliandre is Queen of Ghealdan?? REALLY? Do tell!! I have seen nothing that saying that MURANDY has the sufficient numbers that would make Demandred look past his hundreds of thousands of Trollocs and say, "MAN! I need to become the king of Murandy in person, a proxy just won't do!!" I am sure he has his fingers there, but I just can't agree that he is sitting tight as the king of MURANDY instead of just having a proxy.

 

I had no malice towards you, nor your theory; as I've said, its a good one. But the way you chose to attack a small mistake on my part (you knew what I meant, and you know it) lowers my opinion of the conversation. I know, you don't care. Point taken before you even say it.

 

Sooo... since you have to attack anyone who might question your theory, bring it on. Rip me a new one, if it pleases you. I've probably misspelled a few things as well, I'm sure you'll want to correct that too.

[Charlz Guybon]

Got to be Rhoedran. Ruling Murandy puts him in the center of things. He can hurt the light by destroying the Seanchan armies on his border without raising the suspicion of Rand and co, and then he can stab them in the back by marching on Illian or Caemlyn (assuming the Band saves it).

[hazelkrs1]

I can understand what some are saying about the proxy thing, that there's no reason Demandred has to be there in person to execute his strategy, but extending that logical train, why would any of the Forsaken assume alter egos that can possibly be uncovered? Sammael, Rahvin, Lanfear, Graendal, Mesaana, Osan'gar, Aran'gar, Be'lal, Asmodean, Moghedien, and even Semirhage all assume alternate identities at some point in the novels, the only two of the Forsaken not on that list are Demandred and Moridin. Moridin has a good excuse for not practicing this activity, being Nae'blis and whatnot. What makes Demandred so special, that every other Forsaken would do something, but he does it differently? Having an avatar in Randland, especially one which is set up high in the power chain, lets you gain access to knowledge and small details that might not be as easily attained if using a proxy. It also makes it much easier to spread chaos, whereas if you give orders to another darkfriend there's no guarantee those orders will be carried out. The Forsaken know that the other Chosen will do whatever they can to disrupt their plans, so this makes another good reason for "doing it yourself", as opposed to giving orders to a darkfriend and hoping that darkfriend isn't intercept by another Forsaken.

 

Not only that, but it might please the Forsaken to think that they can go undercover in Randland without any of the forces of the Light ever realizing what's going on. They are vurrrry tricksy, after all.

[Luckers]

Alright, the arguments over, get back on topic and play nice with one another.

[Leyrann]

I think this is a good change of topic. I mean, it seems there is a consensus there is either no alter-ego, or that alter-ego is king Roedran. So why not talk about what he is doing, or which one of those two is right?

[Luckers]

Different argument. Lol anything not deleted is fine for discussion.

[Cybertrolloc]

So we're all agreed that Leyrann is female then?

[mackoY-kun]

In the Gathering Storm, Prologue; What the Storm Means, Graendal witnesses Deamandred and Messaana ask Modirin for help to Rescue Semirhage. They are asking for help because Rand will most probably have a lot of asha'man and aes sedai around and in my understanding they need additional numbers. Messaana is in the white tower, so no shortage of black sisters, so they're asking moridin who is probably the one who is sitting on the black tower. (No demandred in the black tower if this is correct)

 

Or is this just them "asking permission", "to go adventuring on their own" as moridin said to messaana?

[Dreggs Morlock]

It's an interesting thought: what IS he going to do if Murandy's troops are at Demandred's disposal? Seems to me he can run a lot of interference, but he is one portal away from getting his clock cleaned; I'm very curious as to why he would be involved with normal troops at this point of the game. Rand seems to think the time for subterfuge is over, and all the attacks meant for the side of the light will be "out in the open".

 

Perhaps I'm just not using my imagination properly. =)

[Majsju]

It's an interesting thought: what IS he going to do if Murandy's troops are at Demandred's disposal? Seems to me he can run a lot of interference, but he is one portal away from getting his clock cleaned; I'm very curious as to why he would be involved with normal troops at this point of the game. Rand seems to think the time for subterfuge is over, and all the attacks meant for the side of the light will be "out in the open".

 

Perhaps I'm just not using my imagination properly. =)

 

Staging area. Since shadowspawn can't Travel, the shadow depends on the ways and portal stones in order to move their armies around. Unless you already have an army waiting, carefully built for quite some time.

[Terez]

In the Gathering Storm, Prologue; What the Storm Means, Graendal witnesses Deamandred and Messaana ask Modirin for help to Rescue Semirhage. They are asking for help because Rand will most probably have a lot of asha'man and aes sedai around and in my understanding they need additional numbers. Messaana is in the white tower, so no shortage of black sisters, so they're asking moridin who is probably the one who is sitting on the black tower. (No demandred in the black tower if this is correct)

 

Or is this just them "asking permission", "to go adventuring on their own" as moridin said to messaana?

There are other evidences that Taim is answering directly to Moridin, notably the bit in WH about the orders given to...I think it was Kisman. Most likely Demandred got the Black Tower off the ground, and then Moridin usurped his authority somewhere around the end of ACOS to the beginning of TPOD. Most likely this was done as a reward to Taim, who had likely done most of the work in building the Black Tower himself. I think it was probably at this point that Demandred set up shop in Murandy.

[Durinax]

It's an interesting thought: what IS he going to do if Murandy's troops are at Demandred's disposal? Seems to me he can run a lot of interference, but he is one portal away from getting his clock cleaned; I'm very curious as to why he would be involved with normal troops at this point of the game. Rand seems to think the time for subterfuge is over, and all the attacks meant for the side of the light will be "out in the open".

 

Perhaps I'm just not using my imagination properly. =)

 

Staging area. Since shadowspawn can't Travel, the shadow depends on the ways and portal stones in order to move their armies around. Unless you already have an army waiting, carefully built for quite some time.

ok I agree with maj here

but I thought I would also say taht Forsaken dont give a sh!t about the lands they own, demandred could attack, force the lights armies to invade, have guerrilla warfare until the 'pacification' of Murandy has to happen, effectively destroying/confusing the forces of the light among the ranks

[Leyrann]

So we're all agreed that Leyrann is female then?

 

Well, I do not. But this is how much I care about people thinking that:

[FarShainMael]

I've had the opposite problem.. I'm frequently mistaken for a male. I have to keep checking I'm wearing my pink booties.

 

 

.....Hmmm.... has anyone checked Demandred's booties??

[Luckers]

One thing worth noting is that Murandy seemed much more populous than most regions. They might pull a surprisingly large army, even with what the Aes Sedai and Band took. And too with their intercine fighting, they may well have more experienced fighters than most nations--its stated the murandians aren't the best tacticians in New Spring, but Demandred could overcome that.

 

I've had the opposite problem.. I'm frequently mistaken for a male. I have to keep checking I'm wearing my pink booties.

 

 

.....Hmmm.... has anyone checked Demandred's booties??

 

I get mistaken for female some times... though maybe thats because all I do is talk about boys. *sigh*

[hazelkrs1]

One thing worth noting is that Murandy seemed much more populous than most regions. They might pull a surprisingly large army, even with what the Aes Sedai and Band took. And too with their intercine fighting, they may well have more experienced fighters than most nations--its stated the murandians aren't the best tacticians in New Spring, but Demandred could overcome that.

 

I've had the opposite problem.. I'm frequently mistaken for a male. I have to keep checking I'm wearing my pink booties.

 

 

.....Hmmm.... has anyone checked Demandred's booties??

 

I get mistaken for female some times... though maybe thats because all I do is talk about boys. *sigh*

 

I think I might start mistaking you for a female more if you keep ending you posts with sighs like you're the girl from sixteen candles

[Luckers]

One thing worth noting is that Murandy seemed much more populous than most regions. They might pull a surprisingly large army, even with what the Aes Sedai and Band took. And too with their intercine fighting, they may well have more experienced fighters than most nations--its stated the murandians aren't the best tacticians in New Spring, but Demandred could overcome that.

 

I've had the opposite problem.. I'm frequently mistaken for a male. I have to keep checking I'm wearing my pink booties.

 

 

.....Hmmm.... has anyone checked Demandred's booties??

 

I get mistaken for female some times... though maybe thats because all I do is talk about boys. *sigh*

 

I think I might start mistaking you for a female more if you keep ending you posts with sighs like you're the girl from sixteen candles

 

Mine is a manly sigh.

[hazelkrs1]

One thing worth noting is that Murandy seemed much more populous than most regions. They might pull a surprisingly large army, even with what the Aes Sedai and Band took. And too with their intercine fighting, they may well have more experienced fighters than most nations--its stated the murandians aren't the best tacticians in New Spring, but Demandred could overcome that.

 

I've had the opposite problem.. I'm frequently mistaken for a male. I have to keep checking I'm wearing my pink booties.

 

 

.....Hmmm.... has anyone checked Demandred's booties??

 

I get mistaken for female some times... though maybe thats because all I do is talk about boys. *sigh*

 

I think I might start mistaking you for a female more if you keep ending you posts with sighs like you're the girl from sixteen candles

 

Mine is a manly sigh.

 

That's like saying your manpurse is hardcore

[Luckers]

My manpurse is hardcore. And before you comment on that, just remember that I use it to carry my banhammer.

 

:P

 

Also... Demandred... does... you know... stuff. [admins don't go off topic]

[Leyrann]

I thought you just did go off topic.

[Majsju]

 

 

I get mistaken for female some times... though maybe thats because all I do is talk about boys. *sigh*

 

Or the fact that you really are a 16-year old girl

[hazelkrs1]

Nothin to see here folks, just move along.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dem = Rho.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

He's got big surprises tho.

[hazelkrs1]

 

 

I get mistaken for female some times... though maybe thats because all I do is talk about boys. *sigh*

 

Or the fact that you really are a 16-year old girl

 

 

ROFL I KNEW it!

 

Never had me fooled.

 

Tell us how dreamy Rand's eyes are again...

 

 

 

 

 

/slides back on topic