Demandred

[Durinax]

kk. We know that Demandred's alter ego has not appeared in the series as of yet, so any characters we know can be ruled out.

He has a fur lined velvet cloak when going to Shayoul Ghul so he is located somewhere cold.

Sammeul comments that activities to the south has Demandred's hand all over it.

 

So the only place for Demandred to be is on Seanchan

Lets face the facts...

Seanchen is to the south and have large movements.

When Aviendha travelles to Seandar the Suldam they encounter are wearing fur lined cloaks.

The Empress dies misteriously

 

So Demandred is in Seandar, probably royalty, and he kills the Empress.

Semirhage completely destroyed the royal family, sending the seanchan empire into anarchy. Thus demandred is not in and seanchan locations (due to semi being high up in the 'return' forces)

 

Demandred is in Murandy, only place that makes sense

[Cybertrolloc]

You people are ignoring the most significant hint to where he is. The one where he comments where the DO places the three of them, Mesaanna, Semirhage and him. What makes Murandy, in anyways comparable to the WT and Seanchan?

This comment was from LOC, when Demandred was probably most active at the Black Tower. I don't think he set up shop in Murandy until Moridin returned.

Provide a current edition quote. Either this is a fractally stupid interpretation or LoC has been completely rewritten.

[Terez]

You people are ignoring the most significant hint to where he is. The one where he comments where the DO places the three of them, Mesaanna, Semirhage and him. What makes Murandy, in anyways comparable to the WT and Seanchan?

This comment was from LOC, when Demandred was probably most active at the Black Tower. I don't think he set up shop in Murandy until Moridin returned.

Provide a current edition quote. Either this is a fractally stupid interpretation or LoC has been completely rewritten.

What?

[mackoY-kun]

Ah! I think I'm getting the picture of what Terez means. But hmm...

 

Okay the relevant facts are, Demandred initially wore some sort of subdued clothes early on, then later we see him in laces, is this what you mean Terez? That initially he was somewhere(theoretically the BT), then went elsewhere to set up shop(theoretically in Murandy)? Hmm... I don't know.. For some reason I can't seem to make myself swallow that. Just a gut feeling of course, no logical reasoning whatsoever.

[Leyrann]

kk. We know that Demandred's alter ego has not appeared in the series as of yet, so any characters we know can be ruled out.

He has a fur lined velvet cloak when going to Shayoul Ghul so he is located somewhere cold.

Sammeul comments that activities to the south has Demandred's hand all over it.

 

So the only place for Demandred to be is on Seanchan

Lets face the facts...

Seanchen is to the south and have large movements.

When Aviendha travelles to Seandar the Suldam they encounter are wearing fur lined cloaks.

The Empress dies misteriously

 

So Demandred is in Seandar, probably royalty, and he kills the Empress.

 

There are some problems:

 

1) We know Demandred is mentioned in one of the first nine books.

2) Seanchan is to the west.

3) They wore fur lined cloaks because it was winter. Why would it be a sign of Demandred?

4) The Empress is killed by Semirhage.

5) Seanchan is in disorder.

 

Someone here mentioned Taim being a new Forsaken..

 

I don't know if this has ever been brought up, but hasn't it been said that Rand was puzzled as to how Taim managed to fight off the taint while channeling for so many years? I'm guessing that like the other male Forsaken before the cleansing, he had the DO's protection from the counterstroke which confirms his status as possibly a new Chosen.

 

I think you're right, and I think that most people will think that.

 

But this thread is about Demandred. You can always start a new thread about if Taim is or isn't a Forsaken, if you can't find it it doesn't already exist.

 

 

Taim is a darkfriend, there are and will be no more new forsaken

 

He is under the influence of Moridin

 

There is a new Forsaken: Alviarin has the Forsaken Mark (CoT, when Mesaana is punished). Too, there seems a hint that there are new Forsaken, in the eleven chairs of the Forsaken meeting in KoD chapter 3, At the Gardens. Only eight Forsaken were alive at that point.

[capuga]

kk. We know that Demandred's alter ego has not appeared in the series as of yet, so any characters we know can be ruled out.

He has a fur lined velvet cloak when going to Shayoul Ghul so he is located somewhere cold.

Sammeul comments that activities to the south has Demandred's hand all over it.

 

So the only place for Demandred to be is on Seanchan

Lets face the facts...

Seanchen is to the south and have large movements.

When Aviendha travelles to Seandar the Suldam they encounter are wearing fur lined cloaks.

The Empress dies misteriously

 

So Demandred is in Seandar, probably royalty, and he kills the Empress.

 

There are some problems:

 

1) We know Demandred is mentioned in one of the first nine books.

2) Seanchan is to the west.

3) They wore fur lined cloaks because it was winter. Why would it be a sign of Demandred?

4) The Empress is killed by Semirhage.

5) Seanchan is in disorder.

 

Someone here mentioned Taim being a new Forsaken..

 

I don't know if this has ever been brought up, but hasn't it been said that Rand was puzzled as to how Taim managed to fight off the taint while channeling for so many years? I'm guessing that like the other male Forsaken before the cleansing, he had the DO's protection from the counterstroke which confirms his status as possibly a new Chosen.

 

I think you're right, and I think that most people will think that.

 

But this thread is about Demandred. You can always start a new thread about if Taim is or isn't a Forsaken, if you can't find it it doesn't already exist.

 

 

Taim is a darkfriend, there are and will be no more new forsaken

 

He is under the influence of Moridin

 

There is a new Forsaken: Alviarin has the Forsaken Mark (CoT, when Mesaana is punished). Too, there seems a hint that there are new Forsaken, in the eleven chairs of the Forsaken meeting in KoD chapter 3, At the Gardens. Only eight Forsaken were alive at that point.

 

Alviarin's mark wasn't a Chosen mark. It was more of a smaller mark of protection. There's an RJ quote on this but I don't have time to find it.

[Leyrann]

Alviarin's mark wasn't a Chosen mark. It was more of a smaller mark of protection. There's an RJ quote on this but I don't have time to find it.

 

Sorry. I didn't knew that.

 

Back on topic: Demandred.

 

Someone wants to say something about him?

[Lisa Campbell]

Wasn't it during "winter's heart" (not book title) that warm cloak was mentioned?

[capuga]

Alviarin's mark wasn't a Chosen mark. It was more of a smaller mark of protection. There's an RJ quote on this but I don't have time to find it.

 

Sorry. I didn't knew that.

 

Back on topic: Demandred.

 

Someone wants to say something about him?

 

That said, I agree that there is no reason to believe that new Chosen aren't possible. I still think Taim is a possibility.

[Leyrann]

Wasn't it during "winter's heart" (not book title) that warm cloak was mentioned?

 

What do you mean, exactly?

[Lisa Campbell]

I meant that

 

ashaman123, on 02 September 2011 - 11:00 AM, said:

 

kk. We know that Demandred's alter ego has not appeared in the series as of yet, so any characters we know can be ruled out.

He has a fur lined velvet cloak when going to Shayoul Ghul so he is located somewhere cold.

Sammeul comments that activities to the south has Demandred's hand all over it.

 

that is has to do with weather...

 

That goes back a fair way

[Finnssss22]

kk. We know that Demandred's alter ego has not appeared in the series as of yet, so any characters we know can be ruled out.

He has a fur lined velvet cloak when going to Shayoul Ghul so he is located somewhere cold.

Sammeul comments that activities to the south has Demandred's hand all over it.

 

So the only place for Demandred to be is on Seanchan

Lets face the facts...

Seanchen is to the south and have large movements.

When Aviendha travelles to Seandar the Suldam they encounter are wearing fur lined cloaks.

The Empress dies misteriously

 

So Demandred is in Seandar, probably royalty, and he kills the Empress.

 

First off, we do NOT know 100% that Demandred hasn't been seen in his disguise/proxy yet.

What we've been told is that he wasn't up till KoD and that he wasn't in ToM.

We never got an answer for tGS one way or the other. Most likely he wasn't but there is still a possibility, even if remote that he was seen in tGS.

 

As far as the Empress dieing....Semirhage pretty much took credit for that in the KoD epilogue, later confirmed by RJ

 

I asked RJ to expand on Semirhage's actions in Seanchan. He answered, in general terms, that she had engineered the complete eradication of the royal line (nothing new here). I then asked if Semirhage was somehow immune to the effects of the Crystal Throne, and he said that she certainly was.

[Lisa Campbell]

So who said what tha?

 

I only asked because it relates to a previous thread and would like to collate before I do myself the unfortunate favour of blowung myself up (was looking in the emoticons for something looking like a firework but alas)

[Leyrann]

That cloak must have been in LoC. It's the only time we know Demmy goes to SG. But I can't look it up. It's one of the three books I don't have myself.

[Terez]

It's probably not all that relevant what he was wearing, since he can ignore heat/cold. It was hot everywhere in Randland at that time, though, so if he was somewhere cold it would have to be southern hemisphere.

[PsyQuestor]

I have most of the books in txt format on my computer. I searched for Damandred in LoC and came up empty. In the Glossary at the end of CoS I found this

 

Their own name for themselves was "the Chosen." The names given to them are still used to frighten children. They were: Aginor (AGH-ih-nohr), Asmodean (ahs-MOH-dee-an), Balthamel (BAAL-thah-mell), Be’lal (BEH-lahl), Demandred (DEE-man-drehd), Graendal (GREHN-dahl), Ishamael (ih-SHAH-may-EHL), Lan-fear (LAN-feer), Mesaana (meh-SAH-nah), Moghedien (moh-GHEH-dee-ehn), Rahvin (RAAV-ihn), Sam-mael (SAHM-may-EHL), and Semirhage (SEH-mih-RHAHG). It is believed by those with some current knowledge that only Demandred and Sammael survive among the men, and only Graendal, Mesaana, Moghedien and Semirhage among the women. A number of strange encounters, however, suggest the possibility either that several new Chosen have been selected by the Dark One or that Lord of the Grave has in some cases, reached beyond death.

 

Bold added by myself obv. It doesn't say what encounters, just that there have been some to date. I hope this helps.

 

PQ

[GYLD]

Pretty sure those "new" Chosen are just Osan and Aran'gar.

[contempt]

I have most of the books in txt format on my computer. I searched for Damandred in LoC and came up empty. In the Glossary at the end of CoS I found this

 

Their own name for themselves was "the Chosen." The names given to them are still used to frighten children. They were: Aginor (AGH-ih-nohr), Asmodean (ahs-MOH-dee-an), Balthamel (BAAL-thah-mell), Be’lal (BEH-lahl), Demandred (DEE-man-drehd), Graendal (GREHN-dahl), Ishamael (ih-SHAH-may-EHL), Lan-fear (LAN-feer), Mesaana (meh-SAH-nah), Moghedien (moh-GHEH-dee-ehn), Rahvin (RAAV-ihn), Sam-mael (SAHM-may-EHL), and Semirhage (SEH-mih-RHAHG). It is believed by those with some current knowledge that only Demandred and Sammael survive among the men, and only Graendal, Mesaana, Moghedien and Semirhage among the women. A number of strange encounters, however, suggest the possibility either that several new Chosen have been selected by the Dark One or that Lord of the Grave has in some cases, reached beyond death.

 

Bold added by myself obv. It doesn't say what encounters, just that there have been some to date. I hope this helps.

 

PQ

At the very least, I think that answers the question of if Taim is a new chosen or not. Especially since it appears in LoC, where he first appeared on screen.

[Terez]

Okay, I will stop being lazy since no one has found it yet.

 

In what was now called the Age of Legends, this had been an idyllic island in a cool sea, a favorite of those who enjoyed the rustic. Despite the steam it was bitter cold, now; he did not allow himself to feel it, but instinct made him pull his fur-lined velvet cloak closer. Feathery mist marked his breath, barely visible before the air drank it. A few hundred leagues north the world was pure ice, but Thakan’dar was always dry as any desert, though always wrapped in winter.

 

[later, in Mesaana's POV]

 

"I am still waiting to hear what the Great Lord said," Semirhage murmured.

 

"Yes. Are we to kill al’Thor?" Mesaana realized she was gripping her skirt with both hands and let go. Strange. She never let anyone get under her skin. "If all goes well, in two months, three at most, he will be where I can safely reach him, and helpless."

 

"Where you can safely reach him?" Graendal arched an eyebrow quizzically. "Where have you made your lair? No matter. Bare as it is, it’s as good a plan as I’ve heard lately."

 

Still Demandred kept silent, stood there studying them. No, not Graendal. Semirhage and her. And when he did speak, half to himself, it was to they two. "When I think where you two have placed yourselves, I wonder. How much has the Great Lord known, for how long? How much of what has happened has been at his design all along?" There was no answer to that. Finally, he said, "You want to know what the Great Lord told me? Very well. But it stays here, held close. Since Sammael chose to stay away, he learns nothing. Nor do the others, whether alive or dead. The first part of the Great Lord’s message was simple. ‘Let the Lord of Chaos rule.’ His words, exact." The corners of his mouth twitched, as close to a smile as Mesaana had ever seen from him. Then he told them the rest.

 

Mesaana found herself shivering and did not know whether she did so from excitement or fear. It could work; it could hand them everything. But it required luck, and gambling made her uncomfortable. Demandred was the gambler. He was right about one thing; Lews Therin had made his own luck as a mint made coin. In her opinion it seemed that so far Rand al’Thor did the same.

 

Unless... Unless the Great Lord had a plan beyond the one he had revealed. And that frightened her more than any other possibility.

This most likely had much to do with Taim, with letting Rand conquer the nations (including Illian), but setting Taim up to take the spoils of the Black Tower, and trying to turn Rand to the Shadow by other means, subverting his power in other ways, and subverting Tuon as well. This is why Demandred set up shop in a country he was pretty sure Rand wouldn't care much about. Before then, he was working through proxies (Taim being one of them). But when Moridin returned, Taim started reporting directly to Nae'blis, so Demandred had to do something else. But still, he was probably so involved with the Black Tower that he didn't exactly drop it altogether when Moridin moved Taim out from under Demandred's absolute authority. And Demandred is surely right - the Dark One has probably been planning this for a long time. Ishamael's efforts are proof of that.

[Asbrodean]

maby something to do with "the prophet"????

[Leyrann]

Some people thought about that, and it is not unlikely he influenced Masema. But Roedran seems to be his alter ego.

 

(and Masema is dead)

[Terez]

We know that it was a woman who was giving Masema the prophet visions, but there's not much to say they weren't taking orders from Demandred.

[Cybertrolloc]

You people are ignoring the most significant hint to where he is. The one where he comments where the DO places the three of them, Mesaanna, Semirhage and him. What makes Murandy, in anyways comparable to the WT and Seanchan?

This comment was from LOC, when Demandred was probably most active at the Black Tower. I don't think he set up shop in Murandy until Moridin returned.

Provide a current edition quote. Either this is a fractally stupid interpretation or LoC has been completely rewritten.

What?

Fine, for this to make any sense:

- The time of the conversation has to change.

- That'll mean some subject matter changes, I'd like to know what since my edition is out of date.

- The quote changed to include Dem. So I wonder what else changed.

[Terez]

Why does the time have to change?

[mackoY-kun]

You people are ignoring the most significant hint to where he is. The one where he comments where the DO places the three of them, Mesaanna, Semirhage and him. What makes Murandy, in anyways comparable to the WT and Seanchan?

 

That's actually a misunderstanding in my part. It seems that only Mesaanna and Semirhage were specifically "place". So Demendred actually have no reason to be placed somewhere to compare with the WT and Seanchan.

 

Still Demandred kept silent, stood there studying them. No, not Graendal. Semirhage and her. And when he did speak, half to himself, it was to they two. "When I think where you two have placed yourselves, I wonder. How much has the Great Lord known, for how long? How much of what has happened has been at his design all along?"