Who will kill Rand?

[Terez]

I also agree that it may well be from the Moridin bond. But what I meant is that Rand wont start being evil and need to be stopped. I think it will be more akin to a poison. he realises that this metaphorical poison, aka. Moridin bond, is harmful, and tells someone to kill him to be free of the corruption.

I think it's pointing to him being clueless about it. Egwene's comment that some part of him knew he shouldn't break the seals seems to point toward that, for example, and his overconfidence in the TOM epilogue and in other places also points to it. Before Dragonmount, his bad decisions were influenced by both Moridin and his insanity, and it was really obvious to everyone around him that he was losing it. This time, it won't be so obvious.

 

Then there is the possibility that Moridin will simply take control somehow. Hard to say how it will go down, but the link with Moridin is the only conceivable reason for him to die.

 

Edit: I would much rather it be one of the Forsaken though, it would be more fitting, specially if you subscribe to the Broken Wolf theory being Rand.

I think 'consumed by the Midnight Towers' refers to the merge with Moridin, which will probably happen after the 'fall'. That's why I think it unlikely that Moridin will just take over; it seems to suggest that the merge follows the fall.

 

Ohh, I just had a thought. (well, I remembered it anyway) I think it is possible that Gawyn could kill him still, despite having resolved his hatred. If it is to happen, I think Rand will win over the Aes Sedaiat the FoM, so they follow him and not Egwene. Then, being all angry about that, thinking that he has "bewitched" them all with his taveren power, Gawyn goes to kill him (he doesnt need much provocation) made possible by the Bloodknife ter'angreal.

 

Not on Egwene's orders, just because he thinks it would help. Egwene would not kill Rand like that.

I think it most likely that Egwene will order Gawyn to prevent Rand from breaking the seals, and that he'll use the Bloodrings for that, which might or might not lead to him killing Rand.

[Hael Me]

Yep, Rand must die, in some way, to win [and live]. He's connected to Moiraine - without her he will most certainly fail. And without her the world cannot be saved, so that job doesn't belong to Rand alone.

 

Moiraine has work to do. When I read the epilogue of ToM, I assumed that Lanfear/Cyndane was ordered by Moridin to lay a trap for Rand and since I've always predicted a big and final showdown between Moiraine and Lanfear, I thought Mouraine would save Rand once he'd fallen into that trap...

 

Rand's death? I thought that would be another case of him sheathing the sword, so to speak. Facing an enemy and sacrificing himself in order to win. Now, I'm not so sure anymore. And the question is: How much does the new and improved Zen Rand understand? Can he really see the path before him? His interaction with Moridin and the True Power, to which degree has this "damaged" Rand? There's darkness in Rand still, though held at bay for the moment. But the merging continues...

 

So maybe Rand, in his current form, must die before he can face the Dark One and have a chance to win. Moiraine is the obvious candidate - of course, Alivia will "help him die", I think that wording speak volumes. Alivia will be there, I presume, but her role will be similar to the one she had when Rand cleansed saidin: a sentry of sorts. If we stipulate that Moiraine's the one that will do the actual deed, how will it go down? As far as we know, she's still bound by the three oaths.

 

The oath that applies is: "Never to use the One Power as a weapon except against Darkfriends or Shadowspawn, or in the last extreme defense of her life, the life of her Warder or another Aes Sedai." There's plenty of wiggle room. Maybe she doesn't need to use the power after all? Can the Dark One grab a soul that enters The Dream World? If Moiraine knows that she - and the world and The Wheel itself - will perish if she doesn't kill Rand, wouldn't that be a case of "in the last extreme defense of her life"? She has gotten three answers from the Snakes, she has been through the rings in Rhuidean - she's bound to know a lot of things. And if she doesn't use the power as a weapon but more as a surgeon's blade, something that cuts but heals?

 

Moiraine was also granted her three wishes by the Finns - one was the angreal bracelet - but the other two are yet unknown... A yet concealed weapon or something in her head, like Mat's memories?

[WhiskyJack]

Lord of Evening!

[Terez]

I think she probably figured out exactly what Mat wished for, after Rhuidean when she saw what it was like. Lan mentioned Mat's knowledge of battles to Rand, so Rand used Lan to pull it out of him in TFOH 'Before the Arrow', to return the favor (knowing Moiraine would learn everything). I loved the way she faced him down, the day before she was to fight Lanfear, though she didn't quite know it yet.

 

Mat strolled into the room grinning, as if it was a common room. His green coat hung open, and his shirt was half unlaced, exposing the silver foxhead dangling on his sweaty chest, but the dark silk scarf was draped around his neck to hide his hanging scar in spite of the heat. "Sorry if I took too long. There were some Cairhienin who thought they knew how to play cards. Doesn't he know anything livelier?" he asked, jerking his head toward Asmodean.

 

"I hear," Rand said, "that every young man who can pick up a sword wants to join the Band of the Red Hand. Talmanes and Nalesean are having to turn them away in droves. And Daerid has doubled the number of his footmen."

 

Mat paused in lowering himself into the chair Aracome had used. "It's true. A fine lot of young... fellows wanting to be heroes."

 

"The Band of the Red Hand," Moiraine murmured. "Shen an Calhar. A legendary group of heroes indeed, though the men in it must have changed many times in a war that lasted well over three hundred years. It is said they were the last to fall to the Trollocs, guarding Aemon himself, when Manetheren died. Legend says a spring rose where they fell, to mark their passing, but I rather think the spring was already there."

 

"I wouldn't know about that." Mat touched the foxhead medallion, and his voice picked up strength. "Some fool got the name from somewhere, and they all started using it."

 

Moiraine glanced at the medallion dismissively. The small blue stone hanging on the forehead seemed to catch the light and glow, though the angles were wrong. "You are very brave, it seems, Mat." It was flatly said, and the silence that followed stiffened his face. "Very brave," she said finally, "to lead Shen an Calhar across the Alguenya and south against the Andorans. Even braver than that, for there are rumors that you went alone to scout the way, and Talmanes and Nalesean had to ride hard to catch up to you." Egwene sniffed loudly in the background. "Hardly wise for a young lord leading his men."

 

Mat's lip curled. "I'm no lord; I've more respect for myself than that."

 

"But very brave," Moiraine said as if he had not spoken. "Andoran supply wagons burned, outposts destroyed. And three battles. Three battles, and three victories. With small loss to your own men, though outnumbered." As she fingered a rip in the shoulder of his coat he sank back as far the chair would allow. "Are you drawn to the thick of battles, or are they drawn to you? I am almost surprised you came back. To hear the stories, you might have driven the Andorans back across the Erinin had you stayed."

 

"Do you think this is funny?" Mat snarled. "If you have something to say, say it. You can play the cat all you want, but I'm no mouse." For an instant his eyes flickered toward Egwene and Aviendha, watching with folded arms, and he fingered the silver foxhead again. He had to be wondering. It had stopped one woman's channeling from touching him. Would it stop three?

 

Rand only watched. Watched his friend being softened for what he meant to do to him. Is there anything left to me but necessity? It was a quick thought, there and gone. He would do what he must.

 

The Aes Sedai's voice gained a rime of crystal frost as she spoke, almost in an echo. "We all do as we must, as the Pattern decrees For some there is less freedom than for others. It does not matter whether we choose or are chosen. What must be, must be."

 

Mat did not look softened at all. Wary, yes, and certainly angry, but not softened. He could have been a tomcat backed into a corner by three hounds. A tomcat who meant to go down hard. He seemed to have forgotten anyone was in the room except for himself and the three women. "You always have to push a man where you want him, don't you? Kick him there, if he won't go led by the nose. Blood and bloody ashes! Don't glare at me, Egwene, I'll speak the way I want. Burn me! All it needs is for Nynaeve to be here, yanking her braid out of her head, and Elayne staring down her nose. Well, I'm glad she isn't, to hear the news, but even if you had Nynaeve, I'd not be shoved —"

 

"What news?" Rand said sharply. "News Elayne shouldn't hear?"

 

Mat looked up at Moiraine. "You mean there's something you haven't ferreted out?"

 

"What news, Mat?" Rand demanded.

 

"Morgase is dead."

 

Egwene gasped, clasping both hands to her mouth below eyes like huge circles. Moiraine whispered something that might have been a prayer. Asmodean's fingers never faltered on the harp.

And that was the news that told Moiraine she would face Lanfear the next day, the first step down a path with no hope for survival without Mat bloody Cauthon.

 

She probably started narrowing down her choices as they approached Cairhien.

[FarShainMael]

I'm wondering if what will happen is that no person actually kills Rand but that he dies from another cause. He has to 'bleed on the rocks of Shayol Ghul', a bit difficult if he's balefired.. I'm also wondering about those trophies Gawyn took from the Bloodknife assassins, those ter'angreal rings. I think it was Terez that pointed out that Alivia almost certainly knows what they are. I'm wondering if the black stone of which they are made comes from Shayol Ghul, and if Rand's blood touches them, they will give him certain advantages at a certain cost!

[Hyronimus]

well someone has to deal with that wound in his side

[Ferdawoon]

I'm just curious, but why do people think Rand wil die?

 

"To die and live again"? He was LTT, who could just patch the bore, but in his ascension to Light-hood in VoG he became LTT again, thus died and lived again.

 

"His blood shall stain the slopes of Shayol Ghul" or however that prophecy goes, well, "his blood" can be litteral but also mean something else. Family blood? Maybe his kids will be the sacrifice? His people, his blood. Maybe the Aiel will suffer heavy losses? Maybe he will just get a bad cut during the battle, or the wounds will open up and we all know how there have been hints in how the evil from Shadar Logoth and the evil in the wound he got from Ishamael always battle within him.

 

"Help him die" could just be that she ease his sufferings or help him accept the fact that he have to die (which he seem to have done quite well already).

 

Have I missed something?

[Majsju]

I'm just curious, but why do people think Rand wil die?

 

"To die and live again"? He was LTT, who could just patch the bore, but in his ascension to Light-hood in VoG he became LTT again, thus died and lived again.

 

"His blood shall stain the slopes of Shayol Ghul" or however that prophecy goes, well, "his blood" can be litteral but also mean something else. Family blood? Maybe his kids will be the sacrifice? His people, his blood. Maybe the Aiel will suffer heavy losses? Maybe he will just get a bad cut during the battle, or the wounds will open up and we all know how there have been hints in how the evil from Shadar Logoth and the evil in the wound he got from Ishamael always battle within him.

 

"Help him die" could just be that she ease his sufferings or help him accept the fact that he have to die (which he seem to have done quite well already).

 

Have I missed something?

 

"To die and live again" was what the finns told Mat. For Rand, it is "To live you must die".

 

Had it just been one reference to rands death, it could have been explained away. But we have numerous hints through prophecies, viewings, finns etc, which makes it pretty much a guarantee that he will die.

 

Who gets to do the honour, that remains to be seen. seems quite obvious Alivia will be involved, but the way Min phrased it, Alivia does not necessarily have to be the one actually killing Rand, she just needs to help. Though i would say she is currently the #1 candidate.

[Terez]

I'm wondering if what will happen is that no person actually kills Rand but that he dies from another cause. He has to 'bleed on the rocks of Shayol Ghul', a bit difficult if he's balefired.

I'm guessing that will happen after Rand is resurrected, and it won't necessarily be Rand himself who bleeds on the rocks of Shayol Ghul.

 

I'm also wondering about those trophies Gawyn took from the Bloodknife assassins, those ter'angreal rings. I think it was Terez that pointed out that Alivia almost certainly knows what they are. I'm wondering if the black stone of which they are made comes from Shayol Ghul, and if Rand's blood touches them, they will give him certain advantages at a certain cost!

The Bloodrings were introduced too late in the series to be a logical fulfillment of either 'blood on the rocks' or 'to live you must die'. At this stage, it's deus ex machina.

 

It would also be incredibly cheap from a literary perspective for Rand to not actually die. He can be resurrected, but he's got to bite it for real at some point or it's just lame.

[FarShainMael]

The Dreamspikes were also introduced late. So was Graendal's (admittedly restricted) access to the TP. Both were significant to plot development.

[Terez]

Yes, but we're talking about the prophesied death of the Chosen One, which is very different from your average, run-of-the-mill plot development.

[FarShainMael]

I think it is possible that Gawyn could kill him still, despite having resolved his hatred. If it is to happen, I think Rand will win over the Aes Sedaiat the FoM, so they follow him and not Egwene. Then, being all angry about that, thinking that he has "bewitched" them all with his taveren power, Gawyn goes to kill him (he doesnt need much provocation) made possible by the Bloodknife ter'angreal.

 

Not on Egwene's orders, just because he thinks it would help. Egwene would not kill Rand like that.

 

Wouldn't she become aware of any such development, through her bond with Gawyn? Would she simply sit back and let him do it?

[FarShainMael]

Yes, but we're talking about the prophesied death of the Chosen One, which is very different from your average, run-of-the-mill plot development.

 

The Dreamspikes? Run-of-the-mill? They did for Mesaana, and they're holding the 'good' Asha'man prisoner in the BT!

[Elvira_Sedai]

I'm very surprised that people suggest Egwene will kill Rand herself or order Gawyn to do it . Especialy before DO problem decision . She never shown thinking about the solution and believe as everyone that it's Rand job and destiny , so WHY she would do the DO's work ?

 

My guess is that Alivia will recognize BK rings on Gawyn's neck and told Rand about their bonus and price for it fullfilling Min's vision about helping him dye . We know that Rand , how mighty he could be is still a human and can tire as anyone else , as he was after Maradon show , so he can sacrifice himself using those rings .

[The Fallen One]

I'm also wondering about those trophies Gawyn took from the Bloodknife assassins, those ter'angreal rings. I think it was Terez that pointed out that Alivia almost certainly knows what they are. I'm wondering if the black stone of which they are made comes from Shayol Ghul, and if Rand's blood touches them, they will give him certain advantages at a certain cost!

The Bloodrings were introduced too late in the series to be a logical fulfillment of either 'blood on the rocks' or 'to live you must die'. At this stage, it's deus ex machina.

 

It would also be incredibly cheap from a literary perspective for Rand to not actually die. He can be resurrected, but he's got to bite it for real at some point or it's just lame.

 

While I do not really like the idea of the Blood Rings being the answer to Alivia helping Rand die, I do not think its late introduction would make it "deus ex machina." The items have a legitimate explanation and fit into the form of the story and it would fit with the viewing min had of Alivia. When I think Deus Ex Machina, I think of Neo in Matrix: Revolutions. He gains powers in the real world for no good reason and it really does not fit in to the story at all and kind of ruins the whole series. I guess what qualifies as "deus ex machina" is up for interpretation though.

[Southpaw89]

Even though it'll be sad that he dies, it better be an epic death. Such as, he better not either A. Let someone kill him (which I'd highly doubt even if he knew about the Moridin thing) or B..... Yeah nvm that's only way I dont' want him to die. Hopefully he just loses some fight and dies if he has to die. That being said I agree he has to die.

[OptimusPrime]

he better not either A. Let someone kill him

 

Hehehehehehe

 

I really do want him to die before the sacrificial thing. For the longest time I felt like I knew he was going to survive dying, and seeing how it was going to pan out is one of the few things that have kept me going all this time (Rands madness was the biggest thing until I discovered Mazridin). Not just for Rands survival, but to see how RJ would pull it off. Its a big stunt, bringing someone back from the dead in fantasy, and it has big pitfalls if it isnt done well. And yet Fires of Heaven made it look easy. So easy, in fact, that you dont ever see anyone saying ANYTHING about it in a negative way. As far as the pitfalls are concerned its like it never happened (hello balefire )

 

Two deaths would be cool. Survive the first one, possibly not the second. Although I do hope hes alive at the end

 

Even if he does survive, I think will be disapointed if he finds a way to win without dying for it. The books have pretty much promised us that death.

 

Im counting on you, Demandred! AMoL is your cyndane, buddy.

[Cat-Sister]

Egwene...I think her testing for the accepted was a big forshadowing that she will have a part to play in that....I am also pretty sure Brandon Sanderson made a twitter comment about some forshadowing during that chapter on his reread...

[sandoz12]

Egwene...I think her testing for the accepted was a big forshadowing that she will have a part to play in that....I am also pretty sure Brandon Sanderson made a twitter comment about some forshadowing during that chapter on his reread...

Yeah, I remember her testing too had the 'great purge' in it, her being Amyrlin, her not having ever held the oath rod and all of these have occurred. So I wouldn't count on it but I could see it happening.

 

Still think it is more likely to be Moiraine though, I can picture Alivia helping Moiraine to kill Rand but can't really see a scenario where Alivia would help Egwene.

 

*edit* Actually perhaps Alivia could help Egwene if Egwene was opposed to a truce with the Seanchan that Rand was pushing for. Something like that maybe.

[Cat-Sister]

Maybe Egwene and Alivia DO work together on this...remember Egwene's dream involving a Seanchan woman and a cliff, etc....?

[Sleeper]

Egwene, Taim, Alivia, Moiraine, Gawyn, or Galad. I'm leaning towards one of the Gs actually, I don't know why, I just feel it.

[MasterAblar]

Demandred should get to laugh at least once....

[Southpaw89]

yeah Demandred should get a laugh... Before he gets a fireball to the face

[MasterAblar]

I doubt he would really care as long as he kills Rand.

[wolfqueen]

Why do we think he will die, I mean he probably will, but if he does it would have to be because the Darkone. Because if its not...all this climax for no reason...? And that would mean no Tamon Gai'don?