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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

The Fallen One

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  1. So it has been a couple days since I finished, but I think I am ready to put my two cents in. I LOVED it! So, I will go ahead and make a couple praises and complaints regarding plot. I think Eg and Taims parallel was awesome. I loved Dems need to make himself in to the messiah for Shara. On the other hand, Fain was wasted buildup. The other complaint is that Moridin could have done more. That being said, the let down of Moridin fit well.
  2. I actually think Taim played out just like he should. It was cool to see that he became chosen since he had a huge impact on the amount of channelers that the shadow has. At the same time, he was just another petty villain at heart. He is envious of everyone who is put in a position "above" him. That fits in with other forsaken. The only one of them who is not petty is Moridin. It is fitting that Eg takes him out because she came to the top of her respective hierarchy as quickly as he did. They actually have a pretty huge parallel throughout the series. Sorry for the fragmented chain of thought. On a phone and cannot type as fast as i think
  3. Moridin - It would have the most impact if he turned. He is only fighting for the shadow because he believes that it is logical. All the other forsaken have petty reasons for being the Dark One's servants. Plus, we have already seen one forsaken join Rand's side because he thought it was the best choice that he had left, so why do something like that again? (Which is what would happen with any of the other forsaken because actually switching for a noble reason is not in their character.) Graendal - Runner up. I would not like to see it, but her commitment to the shadow seems a little weak. Lanfear - I think she is the most petty of the forsaken, so I would not like to see it.
  4. I think he is the opposite of inhuman. He was shown doing some very human things in ToM. Here is a small list: saving the apples, hugging his father, fixing problems that he helped cause in Arad Doman, apologizing to Hurin, and just expressing emotion in gener to those around him (other then anger). How is showing mercy monstrous? No, it is not the right thing to do, but it does fit with the whole saviour thing. His responsibility to the world is to face the Dark One, not to kill every human Darkfriend. In fact, them reporting back to other Dark Friends about what they saw could reduce morale among the "Darkside." Hmm, I did not feel that way about the Rand Sedai scene. I will agree on the Saidared thing though. Here is the thing though... Those things u describe are inhuman for the simple fact that they are too perfect. People use the phrase 'what would Jesus do' for a reason, and that reason is that what Jesus would do is invariably what people do not do. It does not mean people are not good or, back on topic, that I think rand should be incapable of apologizing, in fact I will make clear here that I have no problem with rand making amends, my problem is with his attitude. When apples start growing around u and bad guys can't look at u because of your inner light, u don't nod sagely or smile benignly accepting it as your right. It's not a normal human response its... What Jesus would do... What is worse is that rands calmness in situations makes the extravagant excess of his sorrow ring false. And I'm sorry, rands exercised political and legal authority when he freed weiramon and anaiyella. His job as champion of the light may have no requirements for this, but his claiming of those powers draw upon him responsibilities that do have nothing to do with that role. If he wanted no part in their trial on that day he should have handed them over to darlin to stand trial under tairen law. In freeing them he freed criminals, and worse in sending them back to the shadow he set in motion the perpetuation of their crimes. So yes even if there is no prophecy saying be should be responsible for that he is. I see where you are comming from and I know from following these forums that you are not a fan of the Jesus/Rand ideas, but that seems to be exactly what has happened. Well, I agree that his reaction is not the normal human response to all the special things going on around him is not the response of a normal human. However, he is not really normal anymore. If he did not have the memories of another 400 year life time perhaps he would have probably reacted differently. It seems to me that Rand has knowledge of why he has all of these new powers so it is not a huge deal to him. One could argue that his calmness comes from LTT experiences in life. After all, he has seen the entire world ravaged by war, sealed the Dark One, and done some pretty terrible things in maddness. I am not arguing that him letting those two go was in any way right. In fact I think it was wrong, however it was not monsterous. On one hand, as a saviour figure, he showed mercy. On the other hand, as a political leader, he could have made the decision to put the fear of the Light into dark friends. Either way, it probably seemed like the right decision to Rand. You are right in saying that he has political and social responsibility to the people. He took this on himself and should be held accountable for it. However, it seems like he is trying to move away from a direct hand in the worlds affairs and try to hand it back to the various peoples. I think that is the right decision, but that he is acting to soon on it. He should be holding on to his responsibity as a political leader until he formally hands it over. I am guessing that will happen at the FoM.
  5. I actually really like Elayne as a character because she makes bad decisions like any other 18 year old would. Also, I like that she has real faults that fit her upbringing. She was raised her whole life being told that one day people will have to give there life for her and that she should be prepared for that. What she did not get is that people should not have to die because she does something reckless, like she does in KoD and ToM. She is a good person who has the faults of being arrogant and reckless. Her arc in the story seems to be taking her towards getting past her recklessness. Just sucks that people had to die for her to start getting over her recklessness.
  6. Well, there is an awesome excuse for him not doing anything about the Black Tower... He is crazy and completely paranoid, even more so around other male channelers, so he invents excuses not to deal with it. You cannot make the argument that his craziness has not kept him from understanding other problems and dealing with, because it has. You could really go as far to say that the only reason Rand has succeed in any aspect is that chance is on his side. Good first example of Rand doing something dumb would be all of TDR. It may have ended well for him, but really only because everything came together in his favor. Another example would be him running to avenge Morgase, he would be dead if it was not for Nynaeve being there by chance. Truth is there is a long history of Rand making crazy decisions so the Black Tower should come as no surprise. Heck, it was crazy for him to make it in the first place. If Rand had been sane he would not have done it until Saidin was cleansed. As far as the CK being destroyed, there is a much more simple explanation for it being destroyed then it being dangerous. (Although that is probably what a lot of characters would say, simply because the idea of it is scary to them.) Rand did it for a more personal reason. It was a symbol for the morally gray things he used it for during TGS, destroying it was part of him accepting what he did and moving on.
  7. I think he is the opposite of inhuman. He was shown doing some very human things in ToM. Here is a small list: saving the apples, hugging his father, fixing problems that he helped cause in Arad Doman, apologizing to Hurin, and just expressing emotion in gener to those around him (other then anger). How is showing mercy monstrous? No, it is not the right thing to do, but it does fit with the whole saviour thing. His responsibility to the world is to face the Dark One, not to kill every human Darkfriend. In fact, them reporting back to other Dark Friends about what they saw could reduce morale among the "Darkside." Hmm, I did not feel that way about the Rand Sedai scene. I will agree on the Saidared thing though.
  8. I think it was an important task for Rand to apologize to Hurin. Rand is being human and making amends to people he cares about. Hurin was a friend and Rand felt he needed to let him know that he was sorry. I think "Zen" Rand is kind of a poor term for him.
  9. Brandon indicated that they have to get food from elsewhere. Sharans probably make good food. I have been wondering about this lately, too. Even if they feed on Sharans - they can not possibly feed several millions by feeding from humans. Each trolloc would need more than one human in his life too grow up, more like 20 or even a hundred. For 1 million trollocs we would need something between 20 and 100 million eaten humans. If we talk about 10 million in reserve - up to 1 billion humans eaten in a time of maybe twenty years. That number just doesn't make sense at all. Especially as we know that the Shadow does not even have enough humans too create weapons for Myrdraal - which I believe is far more important than feeding trollocs. There must be some other way trollocs are feed - some kind of organization dedicated to growing life stocks to feed the trollocs somewhere in the Blight. There could very easily be Humans in the blight. Maybe in the form of a corrupt city or maybe kept like cattle by Myrdraal ranchers. Maybe both. Where would they get the feed for their human cattle? I think Lucker's explanation made the most sense. Just because the humans can't eat Blight-berries doesn't mean Shadowspan can't. A Worm might feed a thousand trollocs for weeks. If they can raise humans they can raise other animals. I know, there are holes in that as well, just throwing it out there. Maybe there are things in the blight that would not kill humans to eat. Plus, if the Evil-Aiel from ToM could survive in the blight, I am sure there are ways for other non-shadowspawn to survive.
  10. Brandon indicated that they have to get food from elsewhere. Sharans probably make good food. I have been wondering about this lately, too. Even if they feed on Sharans - they can not possibly feed several millions by feeding from humans. Each trolloc would need more than one human in his life too grow up, more like 20 or even a hundred. For 1 million trollocs we would need something between 20 and 100 million eaten humans. If we talk about 10 million in reserve - up to 1 billion humans eaten in a time of maybe twenty years. That number just doesn't make sense at all. Especially as we know that the Shadow does not even have enough humans too create weapons for Myrdraal - which I believe is far more important than feeding trollocs. There must be some other way trollocs are feed - some kind of organization dedicated to growing life stocks to feed the trollocs somewhere in the Blight. There could very easily be Humans in the blight. Maybe in the form of a corrupt city or maybe kept like cattle by Myrdraal ranchers. Maybe both.
  11. I think it was completely intentional and purposefully abrupt to show the huge contrast between Dark Rand and Zen Rand. As far as Rand sharing to much with people, it is about damn time. The theme of people not communicating leading to bad things has been ongoing and it only makes sense for the central character to be one of the characters to start trusting people. I think that it makes since that he is starting to trust, considering that Lews Therin lived a good portion of his life in the AoL before the Bore was drilled. That culture probably was a lot more trusting then the end of the AoL and the Third Age. Lews Therin may have had a horrible life towards the end, but the vast majority of his life should influence Rand for the better. As far as people liking or disliking the shift, I think that part of that probably has to do with what reader's wanted to happen with Rand. Most people probably assumed that Rand would be redeemed, but not that so much of LT would shine through. I happen to like the change and like the way he has become such a positive force in a world that is running low on positives. Also, as far as Rand sharing a lot because of the fact that he has no PoVs until the end, that probably did happen a little (maybe just once or twice). Just not easy to not have the central character not have a PoV and still get a lot of what his intentions are across to the reader. Just a sacrifice that was probably made to hide something that in Rand's head.
  12. First off! Heja Sverige. Ett steg närmare världsdominans! =P Second: I dk if that was Jordan´s intention but maybe he portrayed the women as interacting with the men as he did, to make a statement how the men in our world act with women. Subversive writing... although if some of the men irl were as pigheaded as some of the women in WoT I would smack them. And rape of women is still considered as something... like meh. Mean crime, rape is bad, but hey girl? What were you wearing and maybe you liked it rough? And nobody cares. I agree with you on this. I think RJ used gender reversal in his books to make his reader's think about gender relations in the real world. I will say that sometimes he did a good job with this, but at other times it could be confused for RJ expressing sexism towards women. My least favorite thing about the series is the lack of strong climaxes at the end of the end of PoD and CoT. I feel like both books had a lot of good things going for them, but would have been better received if they had a more climatic climax.
  13. The band Nightwish is badass! <3 The title is not a reference to WoT. The song is about the Columbine massacre. I said the song is not about the WoT. It does, however, seem likely that the title is a reference to WoT, especially considering Tuomas is a fantasy fan and many of their songs have literature or movie references. I have no proof that the title is a reference to WoT, it just seems likely. It does not seem likely at all. I know Toumas is a fan of fantasy,the song Wishmaster is one such example. But why would the title be a reference to WoT when the song is about the killings at Columbine, doesn´t make much sense... The song is about Columbine, we've established that. Is the title referring to Columbine though? The slayers at Columbine did not slay their kin. Nobody ever referred to them as kinslayers. I think it's obvious that the title has nothing to do with the song, which is not at all unheard of. Smells Like Teen Spirit comes to mind, it has nothing to do with deodorant. Toumas obviously got the name of the song from somewhere... I guess he could have made it up, but being a fan of fantasy it doesn't seem that likely. Kinslayer as in slaying kin =students/humans. Just because there is Kinslayer in the title doesn´t mean that it´s about WoT. Besides Kinslayer is pretty normal compared to say Myrdraal. We obviously disagree since I claim that the title is indeed referring to the actual song and not some WoT-reference. In the songs were he has been inspired by fantasy like Wishmaster, Elvenpath and Wanderlust he even mentions some fantasy-names such as Shalafi and Elbereth. I have to agree with Hankscorpio. The title can be a reference to WoT and the song not have anything to do with the WoT itself. Seems pretty likely to me that Nightwish may have pulled the name from WoT because it sounded cool and fit with lyrics that they may not have had a title for at that point. This seems even more likely since Nightwish seems to really be into fantasy.
  14. I think the True power does have a counterpart: The One Power. Think about it, true power has negative effects on the pattern, while the one power is the force that drives the wheel. One power has two halves that promote working together, true power promotes selfishness. Also, in a world where most things have a counterpart, it would not make sense for there to be three powers rather then two opposing ones, Lastly, there is only one last book to bring this Light Power into the picture. It would be hard to do and not make it feel clunky and cheaply thrown in just to save the day. There are probably more things about it that make sense, but I just woke up so my brain is not working.
  15. I am not sure Rand got new memories in VoG. That is something we will hopefully see in AMoL. I think what happened was more of Rand accepting his memories of Lews Therin and dropping the filter he created in his head to seperate LT from himself. No proof on this, but I think that Rand had all of the memories by the Cleansing and he just did not have use of them because he filtered them through the voice of LT in his head.
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